If WW3 starts, will the draft come back?

[AZrailwhale]

The draft was unpopular during the Vietnam war.

The draft was always unpopular. In the ACW there were massive anti-draft riots. In WWII popular opinion made objectors keep their mouths shut.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Double Down on being a Fucking Moron

Anyone who lived in the 60s and early 70s knows that those with low draft numbers enlisted to be able to choose their service or National Guard/ Reserves

Doesn’t mean they volunteered out of patriotism

A lot of us did. Most of the ones enlisting to avoid serving went into the reserves or national guard, NOT the real military. The reserves and guard were jokes during Vietnam the various Air Guard units were the only combat capable forces.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nonsense.

Russia has been threatening nuclear weapons in Ukraine since day two when their attack was bogging down.

If the war goes wider, as in allied conventional armies on the field. Russia will use nukes to shore up their Army. That would be the so called “tactical” nukes. But when American Servicemen are nuked. We will respond. We have to.

Then it becomes at best a gradual escalation. Worst, all out nuclear war.

It might even start in Israel.

The point is when the Idiots in charge become convinced that is the only way to make sure their defeat is shared, they’ll fire.

The various Muslim nations stopped invading Israel after Israel got its nukes. From what I have heard, Israel quietly informed all those nations that it's last act as it went under to invaders would be to destroy every Muslim city it's missiles and aircraft could reach.

 

[Mushroom]

The various Muslim nations stopped invading Israel after Israel got its nukes.

Oh, it is a bit more to it than that.

First of all, you had a lot of infighting among the nations that kept attacking Israel. Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, they all wanted to be the HMFIC, and that caused a lot of friction between each of those nations. This is what caused some failed alliances, like the United Arab Republic, between Syria and Egypt from 1958 to 1961. And an even weaker one called the United Arab States between the UAR and Yemen that lasted just as long.

Plus a lot of the Kingdoms and Emirates started to get very nervous over the Soviet backed Ba'athist movements in the region. They saw in both Iraq and Syria coups deposing the Monarchies there, and as by tradition the Soviets were anti-Monarchist and supporting those new governments they started to look for other partners. After all, inviting in a nation that had a history of seeing monarchies overthrown is not a real good long term plan for a monarchy.

Plus the simple fact that Israel largely smacked the crap out of them in 4 out of 4 wars. And your claim that it ended because of nukes falls absolutely flat when it is realized when Israel got their first nukes.

They have always denied having them, but it is believed they had their first nuke by early 1967. And two of the 4 wars between the Arab nations and Israel were after that. So those nukes sure as hell did not stop them in either the Six-Day War, or the Yom Kippur War. So your very claim that the nukes stopped them is a failure, as they actually attacked two more times.

However, once they turned away from the USSR, the US was the obvious nation to make a new alliance with for the Arab nations. And it took years, but those that stopped attacking Israel and even started to make alliances with them started to see more and more US aid arrive. Jordan attacked Israel on three different occasions. Now the two of them have a pretty close alliance.

I still remember when Israel was screaming bloody murder when the US started to send equipment to their Arab neighbors. But over the decades a fair amount of trust has been formed between them, and Israel no longer complains when Saudi Arabia or Jordan buy weapons from the US.

 

[Mushroom]

Anyone who lived in the 60s and early 70s knows that those with low draft numbers enlisted to be able to choose their service

Oh, and in the event of a draft returning, you can still chose your branch of service without actually enlisting. Just as you always could.

When you report for your physical, you can still list a preferred branch of service. Then simply wait to see if or when you are called up.

But want some more proof how wrong you are? During most of Vietnam, the Marine Corps averaged around 200,000 men. And during the conflict, over 450,000 Marines served in Vietnam. However, only around 50,000 Marines were drafted. And even then, most of those were when recruiters would circulate among those taking their induction physical and ask for volunteers.

Oh, and your claim about the Reserves is flat out wrong. Over 35 Army Reserve units were activated during that conflict and sent to Vietnam. And an additional 76 National Guard units were mobilized and sent to Vietnam. Not counting around 100,000 who volunteered individually to go. All told, around 900,000 National Guard and Army Reservists served in Vietnam as part of a unit. And while the Marines did not send any of their reserve units, over 38,000 Marine Reservists did volunteer and served in Vietnam individually.

I had two uncles that did serve then. One was an only surviving son, so actually had a pretty high draft number. But he still volunteered and joined the Marines, and saw service in Vietnam. The other was attending college, so was actually given a deferment. But he still joined the National Guard so he could serve, even though he did not need to do so at all.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh, and in the event of a draft returning, you can still chose your branch of service without actually enlisting. Just as you always could.

When you report for your physical, you can still list a preferred branch of service. Then simply wait to see if or when you are called up.

But want some more proof how wrong you are? During most of Vietnam, the Marine Corps averaged around 200,000 men. And during the conflict, over 450,000 Marines served in Vietnam. However, only around 50,000 Marines were drafted. And even then, most of those were when recruiters would circulate among those taking their induction physical and ask for volunteers.

Oh, and your claim about the Reserves is flat out wrong. Over 35 Army Reserve units were activated during that conflict and sent to Vietnam. And an additional 76 National Guard units were mobilized and sent to Vietnam. Not counting around 100,000 who volunteered individually to go. All told, around 900,000 National Guard and Army Reservists served in Vietnam as part of a unit. And while the Marines did not send any of their reserve units, over 38,000 Marine Reservists did volunteer and served in Vietnam individually.

I had two uncles that did serve then. One was an only surviving son, so actually had a pretty high draft number. But he still volunteered and joined the Marines, and saw service in Vietnam. The other was attending college, so was actually given a deferment. But he still joined the National Guard so he could serve, even though he did not need to do so at all.

How many enlisted in the Navy or Air Force to avoid being drafted into the Army?

 

[Mushroom]

The various Muslim nations stopped invading Israel after Israel got its nukes. From what I have heard, Israel quietly informed all those nations that it's last act as it went under to invaders would be to destroy every Muslim city it's missiles and aircraft could reach.

Once again, kind of ignoring the fact that they conducted their first nuclear test in 1966. And that was hardly a "secret", as the entire world raised its head when they tested their first bomb in Negev. They had built it (along with the nuclear plant to create the plutonium) with assistance from the French, and both the US and UK knew exactly what they were doing.

The world knew they were a nuclear power in 1966. Yet the Arab nations attacked them two more times.

 

[Mushroom]

How many enlisted in the Navy or Air Force to avoid being drafted into the Army?

How many do that in any war?

And sorry, failure once again. Over 200,000 Sailors served in Vietnam (plus around 20,000 more that served with the Marines). Around 300,000 Airmen served in Vietnam.

The Army is always by far the largest service. Always has been, always will be. Hell, my Grandfather joined the Navy in WWII because he had been working at a shipyard before the war. My other grandfather actually joined the Army during WWII, having served for several years in the Merchant Marine and deciding he did not want to spend the war on a ship.

 

[Silver Cat]

What do you call what is happening in Ukraine, then?

The Russians officially call it Special Military Operation. Unofficially - "The Pillow Fighting".

 

[Silver Cat]

Nonsense.

Russia has been threatening nuclear weapons in Ukraine since day two when their attack was bogging down.

If the war goes wider, as in allied conventional armies on the field. Russia will use nukes to shore up their Army. That would be the so called “tactical” nukes. But when American Servicemen are nuked. We will respond. We have to.

They know it, and that's why they can prefer to attack our strategic nuclear forces for starters, to degrade our second strike capability to acceptable (for them) level, or even blackmail us with possibility of their third strike (in the case of our retaliation strike), simultaneously suggesting their "mutually acceptable" peace terms.

 

[Natural Citizen]

They'll probably offer citizenship to all of the military aged males who are being inventoried at the border if they join the military.

I'm not even kidding either. Watch and see.

At this point, war is just a business anyway. Pretty much all wars are banker wars.

No attachment or allegience to the country itself is necessary.

Just talking to myself here.

Senator Dick Durbin wants to turn Iilegals into American soldiers...

''But, there’s also an incredible demand for legal immigration into this country even now. The presiding officer, my colleague from the state of Illinois has legislation which addresses one aspect of that.

Her bill, and I hope that I describe it accurately, says that if you are an undocumented person in this country and you can pass the physical and required background test and the like, you can serve in our military. And if you do it honorably, we will make you citizens of the United States.''

 

[rightwinger]

If they make good soldiers and defend our nation…..why wouldn’t you want them to be citizens?

 

[SavannahMann]

Just talking to myself here.

Senator Dick Durbin wants to turn Iilegals into American soldiers...

''But, there’s also an incredible demand for legal immigration into this country even now. The presiding officer, my colleague from the state of Illinois has legislation which addresses one aspect of that.

Her bill, and I hope that I describe it accurately, says that if you are an undocumented person in this country and you can pass the physical and required background test and the like, you can serve in our military. And if you do it honorably, we will make you citizens of the United States.''

One of the best Military Units in the world operates just like that. The Foreign Legion. If you complete five years honorable service you get French Citizenship. This military unit has a long and distinguished history. Today it is considered an elite force which performs many difficult missions.

 

[Natural Citizen]

If they make good soldiers and defend our nation…..why wouldn’t you want them to be citizens?

Defend our nation from what?

White male devils?

Because that seems to be who they're largely labeling America's biggest threat these days.

These people are coming in my the hundreds of thousand like theyr'e on a conveyor belt and have neither an attachment nor a particluar loyalty or purpose in ''defending out country'' other than free stuff and benefits.

You think they'd give a flying shit about taking an oath? Do you think it would actually mean anything to the ones involved with the administration's purposeful trafficking campaign?

Get real. The entire scam is about as far from the meaningfulness of duty, honor, country as you can get.

 

[Natural Citizen]

One of the best Military Units in the world operates just like that. The Foreign Legion. If you complete five years honorable service you get French Citizenship. This military unit has a long and distinguished history. Today it is considered an elite force which performs many difficult missions.

See my previous post...

 

[Natural Citizen]

The ironic thing about it (brought to us by the usual suspects, I'd add...)

 

[Mushroom]

One of the best Military Units in the world operates just like that. The Foreign Legion.

But also very different.

For example, if you are French you can't join the Foreign Legion. It is only open to foreigners, and is part of but separate from the French Army. The US military does not operate that way.

As far as I am aware, the only "Frenchmen" to have served in the Legion were after WWII. That is because any who was French and served in the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division SS Charlemagne Division but not imprisoned for war crimes had their citizenship revoked. And some used that as a way to regain their citizenship.

That is, if they survived Dien Bien Phu.

 

[TheParser]

IF the draft law does come back, millions of young men (I do not need to be specific) will simply ignore the law just as they already ignore many laws in this country regarding civilized behavior in public.

 

[SavannahMann]

Defend our nation from what?

White male devils?

Because that seems to be who they're largely labeling America's biggest threat these days.

These people are coming in my the hundreds of thousand like theyr'e on a conveyor belt and have neither an attachment nor a particluar loyalty or purpose in ''defending out country'' other than free stuff and benefits.

You think they'd give a flying shit about taking an oath? Do you think it would actually mean anything to the ones involved with the administration's purposeful trafficking campaign?

Get real. The entire scam is about as far from the meaningfulness of duty, honor, country as you can get.

I was in the 82nd Airborne with a guy who had come from Costa Rica. He had a green card and was serving as part of an effort to gain his citizenship.

He was a good soldier. He served in both Panama and Desert Shield/Storm. He got out and took the oath of citizenship. I thought it was superfluous at that point.

I saw on Facebook he was in Puerto Rico now. I guess he got his citizenship.

He was one of thirty people in that platoon. The Platoon Sergeant when I got there was also from Puerto Rico. An excellent Non Com. One of the best I’ve ever seen.

If they are willing to serve. If they are willing to serve honorably. I say give them the citizenship. They earned it and will be far better citizens than the jackasses who talk shit but never volunteer to risk their own skins for the nation they badmouth so frequently. Hell. If I had my way only Veterans would be allowed to vote.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I was in the 82nd Airborne with a guy who had come from Costa Rica. He had a green card and was serving as part of an effort to gain his citizenship.

He was a good soldier. He served in both Panama and Desert Shield/Storm. He got out and took the oath of citizenship. I thought it was superfluous at that point.

I saw on Facebook he was in Puerto Rico now. I guess he got his citizenship.

He was one of thirty people in that platoon. The Platoon Sergeant when I got there was also from Puerto Rico. An excellent Non Com. One of the best I’ve ever seen.

If they are willing to serve. If they are willing to serve honorably. I say give them the citizenship. They earned it and will be far better citizens than the jackasses who talk shit but never volunteer to risk their own skins for the nation they badmouth so frequently. Hell. If I had my way only Veterans would be allowed to vote.

There's a big difference between '' a guy'' and a hundred thousand guys being trafficked into a country for a specific purpose.

I understand your position.

I think you're missing mine, though.

There's a much bigger matter at play here.