If we won the war why is Iran making demands before an end to the war?

[Zavulon]

One day a Russian patriot will stand up and put Putin down.

May be. As, say, commies did with tzar (or tzars and princes have been doing with each other for centuries). But geography is the fate. After killing Putin this hypothetical patriot will still have the hordes of NATO proxies in South Western borderlands (aka Ukraine) and to consolidate his position he won't have any other choice but to retake those lands and fight Europeans. Exactly as the commies have to do back in 1920s or Putin had to do since 2007 and, more directly, since 2014 and 2022.
They attack and we simply doesn't have a choice but defend ourselves. It works for everyone. Putin isn't a Dark Lord, who, by his supernatural powers controls the hordes of mindless or brainwashed blood-thirsty goons, orcs or zombies. He is just a formal talking head, hardly more.

 

[BackAgain]

Why I should?

Because your unsupported claims are made by you for a reason. If you want to make the claims you make, you should also be able to establish that your claims have even a minor amount of factual support.

If the only thing you are doing is posting what you wish to believe, that’s fine. But just understand that, given your complete lack of credibility, your words have no weight.

I'm not here to convince your or something.

Sure. You bloviate an awful lot for someone who isn’t seeking to persuade others of whatever nonsense you spew.

Anyway, there is no use in any of it, because you won't believe me, nor you will be able to check my words.

You don’t know that. And you also aren’t convincing that your answer is “it’s pointless.” The reality is that you cannot support your claims. Not a lack of purpose served. Just a lack of honesty from you.

As they say "The evil has its own truth. Its truth is lie." The very fact that any specific number came out of enemy's mouth makes it more that "doubtful", it's considered as plain lie until otherwise is proven directly and obviously.

You’re in full babble mode. Your gibberish is nonsensical and largely unintelligible.

First of all, and most importantly, I deny it, because it's came from the western sources.

It came from a number of western sources. And their estimates are in significant agreement with each other.
Your problem is that you just don’t care for the truth.

I might not know what is the truth, but I absolutely sure that whatever they say - it's a lie.

Your alleged certainty is just another way of conceding that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

You don’t study anything. You live a gullible life. You’re told what to believe, and you unreasoningly but meekly and dutifully comply.

 

[Zavulon]

Because your unsupported claims are made by you for a reason.

My main reason here is simple. I just want to improve my English. Another reason - seeking for new information. I mean real information, not just stupid propaganda.

If you want to make the claims you make, you should also be able to establish that your claims have even a minor amount of factual support.

As I've already said, you won't believe nothing I say, and I'm not going to post here any real documents or something.

If the only thing you are doing is posting what you wish to believe, that’s fine. But just understand that, given your complete lack of credibility, your words have no weight.

As I said, I don't need you to believe me. You may use my words as an invitation for your own research or you can simply ignore them. It's totally your choice and your funerals.

Sure. You bloviate an awful lot for someone who isn’t seeking to persuade others of whatever nonsense you spew.

Thank you. This usage of the word "bloviate" was new for me.

You don’t know that.

I do know it. If you believe that Putin is a Dark Lord who with his supernatural powers force the Horde of Orcs to fight and die just because of his nostalgia... Then, yes, you positively can't believe the words of a "brainwashed goon" or "bloodthristy ork".

And you also aren’t convincing that your answer is “it’s pointless.” The reality is that you cannot support your claims. Not a lack of purpose served. Just a lack of honesty from you.

What kind of claim should I support? That the sky is blue, water is wet, Putin isn't a supernatural creature and Russians are not mindless Orcs?

You’re in full babble mode. Your gibberish is nonsensical and largely unintelligible.

Ok. Let me reformulate it. I don't believe Westen propaganda simply because it's Western propaganda. "CNN-verse" isn't just unreal, it's even unrealistic even by the measure of fiction literature and movies. I mean, Saron and Orcs in "The Rings of Power" seems more realistic than Putin and Russians in the CNN-verse.

It came from a number of western sources. And their estimates are in significant agreement with each other.

They just lie together, as they do about literally everything in Russia, including the things I do see every day.

Your problem is that you just don’t care for the truth.

I do care about the truth.

Your alleged certainty is just another way of conceding that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Oh, c'mon. I do know about the war a way more than you or any western source.

You don’t study anything. You live a gullible life. You’re told what to believe, and you unreasoningly but meekly and dutifully comply.

Ok. And if I'm a brainwashed goon, should you trust me?

 

[Bad Bob]

May be. As, say, commies did with tzar (or tzars and princes have been doing with each other for centuries). But geography is the fate. After killing Putin this hypothetical patriot will still have the hordes of NATO proxies in South Western borderlands (aka Ukraine) and to consolidate his position he won't have any other choice but to retake those lands and fight Europeans. Exactly as the commies have to do back in 1920s or Putin had to do since 2007 and, more directly, since 2014 and 2022.
They attack and we simply doesn't have a choice but defend ourselves. It works for everyone. Putin isn't a Dark Lord, who, by his supernatural powers controls the hordes of mindless or brainwashed blood-thirsty goons, orcs or zombies. He is just a formal talking head, hardly more.

Nice conspiracy theory.

As GW Bush proved in Iraq, democracy can't be given to people. They have to earn it. The Russians lived under 70+ years of a dictatorship disguised as communism. When they had the chance for democracy, unlike the Poles, East Germans and Czechs, the Russians turned into back into sheep and quickly fell back into a dictatorship.

Russians aren't ready for freedom. Be it a King/Czar or a Stalinist dictatorship like Putin, they keep proving they aren't ready to throw off the yoke of tyranny. Sad.

 

[Zavulon]

Nice conspiracy theory.

As GW Bush proved in Iraq, democracy can't be given to people. They have to earn it. The Russians lived under 70+ years of a dictatorship disguised as communism. When they had the chance for democracy, unlike the Poles, East Germans and Czechs, the Russians turned into back into sheep and quickly fell back into a dictatorship.

Russians aren't ready for freedom. Be it a King/Czar or a Stalinist dictatorship like Putin, they keep proving they aren't ready to throw off the yoke of tyranny. Sad.

First of all, you falling in racism (or, may be, cultural chauvinism). Second - there are different definitions of freedom, and, according most of them, Americans are much less free than Russians. Third, de facto, there is no dictatorship in Russia. Putin is a mere talking head, and, personally he is hardly smarter or more competent than Biden or Trump.

 

[Man With A Plan]

I don't know what's more amusing, Zavulon...your attempts at English...or your attempts at propaganda!

The Russian people haven't been "free" like Americans at any time in their entire existence! I don't think you even understand what the concept means.

 

[Bad Bob]

First of all, you falling in racism (or, may be, cultural chauvinism). Second - there are different definitions of freedom, and, according most of them, Americans are much less free than Russians. Third, de facto, there is no dictatorship in Russia. Putin is a mere talking head, and, personally he is hardly smarter or more competent than Biden or Trump.

I'm a realist who looks at results. Is there any doubt that Russia lives under a dictator who has gotten thousands of Russians killed plus murdered a few on his own?

 

[Man With A Plan]

You have a petty little man as your dictator that is willing to sacrifice half a million Russians pursuing the pipe dream of reconstituting a failed system. The Soviet Union died because communism doesn't work and never has worked. Putin is too stupid to recognize that fact.

 

[Zavulon]

I don't know what's more amusing, Zavulon...your attempts at English...or your attempts at propaganda!

The Russian people haven't been "free" like Americans at any time in their entire existence! I don't think you even understand what the concept means.

I do know what do you mean by this concept. Your freedom is slavery. A drug-addict person can't be free. And about half of Americans are addicted to legal or illegal drugs. So, what if the freedom for the Big Pharma and Black Pharma - it's slavery for many millions of Americans. A person that has a personal governmental spy in his or her pocket - can't be free. And the freedom of Tech giants, tightly cooperative with governmental agencies, turns out to be slavery and constant control for many millions of Americans. To be internally free, a person should be able to read and understand foreign sources. How many Americans do know foreign languages at all, say nothing about reading foreign books or magazines? You think you are free from educational system, but it just makes you slaves of the most stupid and unprofessional propaganda.

 

[Zavulon]

You have a petty little man as your dictator that is willing to sacrifice half a million Russians pursuing the pipe dream of reconstituting a failed system. The Soviet Union died because communism doesn't work and never has worked. Putin is too stupid to recognize that fact.

And this is another perfect example, how mentally crippled you are, and what kind of nonsense American media can put in your carefully brainwashed heads.

 

[Man With A Plan]

I do know what do you mean by this concept. Your freedom is slavery. A drug-addict person can't be free. And about half of Americans are addicted to legal or illegal drugs. So, what if the freedom for the Big Pharma and Black Pharma - it's slavery for many millions of Americans. A person that has a personal governmental spy in his or her pocket - can't be free. And the freedom of Tech giants, tightly cooperative with governmental agencies, turns out to be slavery and constant control for many millions of Americans. To be internally free, a person should be able to read and understand foreign sources. How many Americans do know foreign languages at all, say nothing about reading foreign books or magazines? You think you are free from educational system, but it just makes you slaves of the most stupid and unprofessional propaganda.

Now that's laughable...Russians exist under a system that "manages" information through government controlled media and anyone who dissents is jailed or murdered! When you hear Donald Trump rail against the Main Stream Media? He does so because in the US, government doesn't control sources of information. You can't even grasp that concept because it's never existed in Russia or the Soviet Union!

 

[Man With A Plan]

And this is another perfect example, how mentally crippled you are, and what kind of nonsense American media can put in your carefully brainwashed heads.

Putin hasn't sacrificed almost half a million sons of Russia in his attempt to absorb the Ukrainian nation? The burned out husks of Russian tanks scattered everywhere from the border of Ukraine belies that, Zavulon! Something that Putin assured you would take a few months to accomplish has now taken YEARS and things look worse for the Russian military now than it did a month into the conflict! How does Putin get himself out of a war that it's now obvious he'll never win?

 

[Zavulon]

Now that's laughable...Russians exist under a system that "manages" information through government controlled media and anyone who dissents is jailed or murdered!

C'mon, don't try to look like more stupid you are. Do you think that there are Martians in control of those media? They are Russians. And if somebody tried to kill everyone who dissents - there would nobody left.

When you hear Donald Trump rail against the Main Stream Media?

Donald Trump is just a puppet of Deep State, that's all. A talking head, meekly parroting any nonsense they put in his inter-ear ganglion.

He does so because in the US, government doesn't control sources of information.

Of course it controls. And quite often in the most stupid and primitive way, as you already has demonstrated.

You can't even grasp that concept because it's never existed in Russia or the Soviet Union!

At least we do know what is the freedom of reader. I do read American news and you don't read Russian news. And who is more free - a person who has a fence around his town (slightly limited possibilities), or a person who's legs were cut off and brain damaged (severely limited capabilities)?

 

[Zavulon]

Putin hasn't sacrificed almost half a million sons of Russia in his attempt to absorb the Ukrainian nation?

Definitely, no. It's so utterly stupid and ignorant, that I don't really know from where to start. Like, you know, try to explain to a Marvel fun, that there is no any Spiderman in DC universe at all.
Ok. Not sure it can help, but let's try. First of all, there is no such thing as "Ukrainian nation". Ukrainians are Russians (as Yankees, Hillbillies and Californians are Americans), and Ukraine is a part of Russia (in the wider meaning of the term, like Canada is a part of America and America is a part of the West), of course, some of them are separatists, nationalists and traitors, but it's quite normal. Second - Putin is neither Borg, nor some kind of hivemind to "assimilate" or "absorb" anybody, especially groups that large. What is more important, Ukrainian culture already is a part of Russian culture, like Country music is a kind of American music. There is no need to do it, as America doesn't need to "absorb" Cowboys or Yankees. Third, Ukraine itself isn't the point. NATO is. Ukraine itself could live independently, until they have been following two simple rules, written in Ukrainian constitution - equal rights for all ethnic groups, and neutral status, exactly like Canada can live independently from the USA. But, the threat of joining to a hostile military alliance or discrimination, abuse and genocide of Russians caused the same effect that would cause Canadian genocide of English-speakers or attempt to join Shanghai pact. Fourth, the number of 0.5 mln killed also seems exaggerated. More likely it's about 0.1-0.2 mln killed in four years, that makes it more or less compared with number of killed in traffic accidents. I mean it's not good, it's even tragic, but it's definitely acceptable and simply lesser evil.

The burned out husks of Russian tanks scattered everywhere from the border of Ukraine belies that, Zavulon!

So what? Tanks are expendables. They suppose to burn.

Something that Putin assured you would take a few months to accomplish has now taken YEARS and things look worse for the Russian military now than it did a month into the conflict!

Putin didn't assured anyone about his exact expectations of duration of this operation. Military phase of the special operation in Chechnya took 10 years and even Western Ukraine alone is six times larger than Chechnya.

How does Putin get himself out of a war that it's now obvious he'll never win?

It's simple. We are going to win it. Either by the win in the war of attrition by coerction the West to the mutually acceptable terms (which is, as for me, quite unlikely), or by escalation and, at least, for starters, limited nuclear war in Europe and large scale war against the USA (which is, I believe, is much more likely).

 

[Man With A Plan]

Definitely, no. It's so utterly stupid and ignorant, that I don't really know from where to start. Like, you know, try to explain to a Marvel fun, that there is no any Spiderman in DC universe at all.
Ok. Not sure it can help, but let's try. First of all, there is no such thing as "Ukrainian nation". Ukrainians are Russians (as Yankees, Hillbillies and Californians are Americans), and Ukraine is a part of Russia (in the wider meaning of the term, like Canada is a part of America and America is a part of the West), of course, some of them are separatists, nationalists and traitors, but it's quite normal. Second - Putin is neither Borg, nor some kind of hivemind to "assimilate" or "absorb" anybody, especially groups that large. What is more important, Ukrainian culture already is a part of Russian culture, like Country music is a kind of American music. There is no need to do it, as America doesn't need to "absorb" Cowboys or Yankees. Third, Ukraine itself isn't the point. NATO is. Ukraine itself could live independently, until they have been following two simple rules, written in Ukrainian constitution - equal rights for all ethnic groups, and neutral status, exactly like Canada can live independently from the USA. But, the threat of joining to a hostile military alliance or discrimination, abuse and genocide of Russians caused the same effect that would cause Canadian genocide of English-speakers or attempt to join Shanghai pact. Fourth, the number of 0.5 mln killed also seems exaggerated. More likely it's about 0.1-0.2 mln killed in four years, that makes it more or less compared with number of killed in traffic accidents. I mean it's not good, it's even tragic, but it's definitely acceptable and simply lesser evil.



So what? Tanks are expendables. They suppose to burn.


Putin didn't assured anyone about his exact expectations of duration of this operation. Military phase of the special operation in Chechnya took 10 years and even Western Ukraine alone is six times larger than Chechnya.


It's simple. We are going to win it. Either by the win in the war of attrition by coerction the West to the mutually acceptable terms (which is, as for me, quite unlikely), or by escalation and, at least, for starters, limited nuclear war in Europe and large scale war against the USA (which is, I believe, is much more likely).

Ah...Canada isn't part of the US, idiot! You obviously know as little about North America as you do about Ukrainian history.

 

[Man With A Plan]

C'mon, don't try to look like more stupid you are. Do you think that there are Martians in control of those media? They are Russians. And if somebody tried to kill everyone who dissents - there would nobody left.


Donald Trump is just a puppet of Deep State, that's all. A talking head, meekly parroting any nonsense they put in his inter-ear ganglion.


Of course it controls. And quite often in the most stupid and primitive way, as you already has demonstrated.


At least we do know what is the freedom of reader. I do read American news and you don't read Russian news. And who is more free - a person who has a fence around his town (slightly limited possibilities), or a person who's legs were cut off and brain damaged (severely limited capabilities)?

Donald Trump is the enemy of the Deep State. You know nothing about American politics either!

 

[frigidweirdo]

The only winners so far have been our oil companies and defense contractors.

And Russia.

 

[my2¢]

And Russia.

Good catch. The partially lifted sanctions had slipped my mind.

 

[BackAgain]

My main reason here is simple. I just want to improve my English. Another reason - seeking for new information. I mean real information, not just stupid propaganda.

Your English is commendable.

But you thrive on propaganda.

As I've already said, you won't believe nothing I say, and I'm not going to post here any real documents or something.

It doesn’t matter what I may or may not accept as truthful. You simply refuse to support the nonsense you spew.

As I said, I don't need you to believe me. You may use my words as an invitation for your own research or you can simply ignore them. It's totally your choice and your funerals.

I reject everything you say which you won’t and can’t support.

Thank you. This usage of the word "bloviate" was new for me.

Enjoy.

I do know it. If you believe that Putin is a Dark Lord who with his supernatural powers force the Horde of Orcs to fight and die just because of his nostalgia... Then, yes, you positively can't believe the words of a "brainwashed goon" or "bloodthristy ork".

You’re silly. Nobody with a brain sees PuKin as anything supernatural. He’s just a rancid ******* shit stain murderous creep.

What kind of claim should I support? That the sky is blue, water is wet,

Ask a stupid question. Oh wait. You just did.

Putin isn't a supernatural creature and Russians are not mindless Orcs?

You’re the idiot who made that comment, dopey. Since it is just childish fiction, there’s never a need to support such mindless claims.

Ok. Let me reformulate it. I don't believe Westen propaganda simply because it's Western propaganda.

I don’t give a crap what you choose to accept or to reject. You lap up Russian disinformation, so your beliefs are irrelevant.

"CNN-verse" isn't just unreal, it's even unrealistic even by the measure of fiction literature and movies. I mean, Saron and Orcs in "The Rings of Power" seems more realistic than Putin and Russians in the CNN-verse.

They just lie together, as they do about literally everything in Russia, including the things I do see every day.

Hey. CNN isn’t a metric by which actual journalism can be measured.

I do care about the truth.

No. You absolutely do not.

Oh, c'mon. I do know about the war a way more than you or any western source.

No. You don’t. Stop spewing your fantasies.

Ok. And if I'm a brainwashed goon, should you trust me?

You’re brainwashed for sure. And I don’t trust what you say. You are a joke.