If we can’t validate the election results for 20 years. Does trump remain?

[Mike473]

It would go to the Senate in this hypothetical situation. There would be no Speaker of the House, as those results would also likely be in dispute. However, unlike the House, the Senate does not have all members up for election, the body would remain intact, at least as far as the 2/3rds not up for election in 2020. But, in no scenario, would the public settle for allowing a senior Senator to serve a full term as President, while dismissing 100+ million votes.

I believe, as the situation became more clear, a constitutional crisis would begin. In this case, I believe an emergency race to pass, either by the states or congress, a constitutional amendment to deal with such a situation where results could not be validated, perhaps as far as a constitutional convention to settle the issue. A very dangerous option indeed.

 

[bravoactual]

The Presidential Succession Act of 1947 is clear on Succession.

1. President of the United States.

2. Vice President of the United States.

3. Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

4. President Pro-Tem of the U.S. Senate.

5 Secretary of State.

 

[bravoactual]

It would go to the Senate in this hypothetical situation. There would be no Speaker of the House, as those results would also likely be in dispute. However, unlike the House, the Senate does not have all members up for election, the body would remain intact, at least as far as the 2/3rds not up for election in 2020. But, in no scenario, would the public settle for allowing a senior Senator to serve a full term as President, while dismissing 100+ million votes.

I believe, as the situation became more clear, a constitutional crisis would begin. In this case, I believe an emergency race to pass, either by the states or congress, a constitutional amendment to deal with such a situation where results could not be validated, perhaps as far as a constitutional convention to settle the issue. A very dangerous option indeed.

WRONG.....

Members of both The U.S. Senate and the U.S. House of Representatives are sworn into office on January 3. IF the Presidential Election is NOT validated on or by January 21, under the Constitution the election goes to the U.S. House of Representatives. Which means if the Dems have the majority, Mr. Biden wins.

Under the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, the succession line is clear.

1. President of the United States.

2. Vice President of the United States.

3. Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

4. President Pro-Tem of the U.S. Senate.

5. U.S. Secretary of State.

 

[Mike473]

It would go to the Senate in this hypothetical situation. There would be no Speaker of the House, as those results would also likely be in dispute. However, unlike the House, the Senate does not have all members up for election, the body would remain intact, at least as far as the 2/3rds not up for election in 2020. But, in no scenario, would the public settle for allowing a senior Senator to serve a full term as President, while dismissing 100+ million votes.

I believe, as the situation became more clear, a constitutional crisis would begin. In this case, I believe an emergency race to pass, either by the states or congress, a constitutional amendment to deal with such a situation where results could not be validated, perhaps as far as a constitutional convention to settle the issue. A very dangerous option indeed.

WRONG.....

Members of both The U.S. Senate and the U.S. House of Representatives are sworn into office on January 3. IF the Presidential Election is NOT validated on or by January 21, under the Constitution the election goes to the U.S. House of Representatives. Which means if the Dems have the majority, Mr. Biden wins.

Under the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, the succession line is clear.

1. President of the United States.

2. Vice President of the United States.

3. Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

4. President Pro-Tem of the U.S. Senate.

5. U.S. Secretary of State.

In the scenario I am speculating about, and many others, a new House would be unable to be seated due to a lack of confidence in the voting results. So, how does the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 work when a House Majority is unable to be determined? If the majority is unknown due to election disputes, who is the Speaker of House in January 2021?

 

[kyzr]

It would go to the Senate in this hypothetical situation. There would be no Speaker of the House, as those results would also likely be in dispute. However, unlike the House, the Senate does not have all members up for election, the body would remain intact, at least as far as the 2/3rds not up for election in 2020. But, in no scenario, would the public settle for allowing a senior Senator to serve a full term as President, while dismissing 100+ million votes.

I believe, as the situation became more clear, a constitutional crisis would begin. In this case, I believe an emergency race to pass, either by the states or congress, a constitutional amendment to deal with such a situation where results could not be validated, perhaps as far as a constitutional convention to settle the issue. A very dangerous option indeed.

WRONG.....

Members of both The U.S. Senate and the U.S. House of Representatives are sworn into office on January 3. IF the Presidential Election is NOT validated on or by January 21, under the Constitution the election goes to the U.S. House of Representatives. Which means if the Dems have the majority, Mr. Biden wins.

Under the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, the succession line is clear.

1. President of the United States.

2. Vice President of the United States.

3. Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

4. President Pro-Tem of the U.S. Senate.

5. U.S. Secretary of State.

In the scenario I am speculating about, and many others, a new House would be unable to be seated due to a lack of confidence in the voting results. So, how does the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 work when a House Majority is unable to be determined? If the majority is unknown due to election disputes, who is the Speaker of House in January 2021?

1. Most states have LAWS that their vote count needs to be certified by a certain date so that their certified vote counts can be sent to DC by noon on January 6th when the VP opens the state ballots and counts the EC votes. So IMHO the various state secretaries of states would just forward the vote counts that are not in dispute as that state's official certified vote count as required by law.
2. If a few state secretaries refuse to send the votes to DC on time because of court orders or some other issue, that's when it gets into the weeds. Say 40 states send in their votes on time and 10 don't. Those 10 states' EC votes don't count, ever. So would the VP when counting the valid EC votes just declare the winner with the most valid EC votes on January 6th, 270 or not?
Probably. I don't know what the Constitution says about state votes not certified on time.
3. The new House and Senate are sworn in on January 3rd. If a few states don't certify a house or senate race on time what happens?
Does the governor send a temp in? (saw this happen)
Or is the seat vacant until the race is certified? (saw vacant seats too)
Either way, the House and Senate are fully formed and functional on January 3rd.

So I'm not seeing a "Constitutional Crisis" on the horizon because the secretaries of states will certify winners on time as required by state law.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It would go to the Senate in this hypothetical situation. There would be no Speaker of the House, as those results would also likely be in dispute. However, unlike the House, the Senate does not have all members up for election, the body would remain intact, at least as far as the 2/3rds not up for election in 2020. But, in no scenario, would the public settle for allowing a senior Senator to serve a full term as President, while dismissing 100+ million votes.

I believe, as the situation became more clear, a constitutional crisis would begin. In this case, I believe an emergency race to pass, either by the states or congress, a constitutional amendment to deal with such a situation where results could not be validated, perhaps as far as a constitutional convention to settle the issue. A very dangerous option indeed.

WRONG.....

Members of both The U.S. Senate and the U.S. House of Representatives are sworn into office on January 3. IF the Presidential Election is NOT validated on or by January 21, under the Constitution the election goes to the U.S. House of Representatives. Which means if the Dems have the majority, Mr. Biden wins.

Under the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, the succession line is clear.

1. President of the United States.

2. Vice President of the United States.

3. Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

4. President Pro-Tem of the U.S. Senate.

5. U.S. Secretary of State.

In the scenario I am speculating about, and many others, a new House would be unable to be seated due to a lack of confidence in the voting results. So, how does the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 work when a House Majority is unable to be determined? If the majority is unknown due to election disputes, who is the Speaker of House in January 2021?

1. Most states have LAWS that their vote count needs to be certified by a certain date so that their certified vote counts can be sent to DC by noon on January 6th when the VP opens the state ballots and counts the EC votes. So IMHO the various state secretaries of states would just forward the vote counts that are not in dispute as that state's official certified vote count as required by law.
2. If a few state secretaries refuse to send the votes to DC on time because of court orders or some other issue, that's when it gets into the weeds. Say 40 states send in their votes on time and 10 don't. Those 10 states' EC votes don't count, ever. So would the VP when counting the valid EC votes just declare the winner with the most valid EC votes on January 6th, 270 or not?
Probably. I don't know what the Constitution says about state votes not certified on time.
3. The new House and Senate are sworn in on January 3rd. If a few states don't certify a house or senate race on time what happens?
Does the governor send a temp in? (saw this happen)
Or is the seat vacant until the race is certified? (saw vacant seats too)
Either way, the House and Senate are fully formed and functional on January 3rd.

So I'm not seeing a "Constitutional Crisis" on the horizon because the secretaries of states will certify winners on time as required by state law.

In response to #2: So if I remember correctly - and I may not - the hard deadline is REALLY the day that the electors cast their votes. If a state misses that date, then Congress can ignore that state's electors as though they never existed. I can't swear to it, but I believe that the majority needed to win changes at that point. In the election of 1864, it was the middle of a war. The 11 states which had seceded obviously weren't going to participate. The winner - Lincoln - was decided by the majority of appointed electors. Seems logical to me, given the exact wording of the law.

Also - and again, I can't swear to it - the Constitution gives the ultimate responsibility for choosing electors to the state legislatures. Theoretically, I think those legislatures could simply step in and choose the slate of electors.

In response to #3: Senators can be appointed to fill vacant seats by their state's governor. Representatives have to be elected, apparently. Think back to the last time a Representative died, or moved on to another job in the middle of his term. There was a special election. Presuming that there were at least SOME House races with certified votes, I suppose we'd function with a really small House until the seats could be filled.

I sincerely doubt any state election official - I don't actually know if every state has a Secretary of State, per se - is going to 86 his or her job by not certifying some sort of vote count on the legal deadline and allowing the state to be ignored during a Presidential election. That person would not only be unemployed, he'd probably be tarred and feathered.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The President's term ends Jan. 20.

In the event that the election is undecided on that date the previous administration remains until it is.

There are other provisons that are date certian so this will be decided long before Jan 20th. If states fail to meet deadlines thier ballots are null and void. The number of EC electors will be reduced and the individual who gets over 50% will be the next president.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The President's term ends Jan. 20.

In the event that the election is undecided on that date the previous administration remains until it is.

And where is that written into law? Seems to me like the Constitution directly says that ISN'T what happens.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The President's term ends Jan. 20.

In the event that the election is undecided on that date the previous administration remains until it is.

And where is that written into law? Seems to me like the Constitution directly says that ISN'T what happens.

I have added to my post... It is a very unlikely event but the current administration would continue until the issue is resolved and a transition of power scheduled by SCOTUS.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The President's term ends Jan. 20.

In the event that the election is undecided on that date the previous administration remains until it is.

And where is that written into law? Seems to me like the Constitution directly says that ISN'T what happens.

I have added to my post... It is a very unlikely event but the current administration would continue until the issue is resolved and a transition of power scheduled by SCOTUS.

Still waiting on your citation of law. Pretty sure I didn't ask you to parrot your empty assertion.

And I know for a fact that SCOTUS has nothing to do with it.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The President's term ends Jan. 20.

In the event that the election is undecided on that date the previous administration remains until it is.

And where is that written into law? Seems to me like the Constitution directly says that ISN'T what happens.

I have added to my post... It is a very unlikely event but the current administration would continue until the issue is resolved and a transition of power scheduled by SCOTUS.

Still waiting on your citation of law. Pretty sure I didn't ask you to parrot your empty assertion.

And I know for a fact that SCOTUS has nothing to do with it.

SCOTUS is the arbitrator of all things in a federal election and most certainly that of the presidential election. I doubt however that it will ever come to that as date certain limitations on the Electoral College counts are codified into law. If a state misses that deadline their EC delegates can do nothing and the total of EC delegates is reduced by that number. The winner will be the one who has 50+ % of those remaining electors.

California and other "mail in ballot" states have to hit those date certain certifications or they lose representation in the EC. Its going to be real interesting when 5-10 left wing shit holes dont make the deadline and their electors get cut from the EC. Just one state failing will certainly give Trump the Presidency again.

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/presidential-election-brochure.pdf

 

[Care4all]

It will depend on how the rest of the election goes.

I believe the President Pro Tempore would take the office, and that would currently be Grassley. BUT, if the Congressional elections count and go Democrat, then the President Pro Tempore would be a Democrat, I reckon.

In either case, the President would be neither Trump nor Biden.

Hmm....

I think the House of representatives picks our President, if no winner.... but here's the kicker, I think there is only 1 vote per state.... So I do not know how that works? Do state representatives get together and vote on who gets chosen for their state, then submit that person as the vote from their state?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The President's term ends Jan. 20.

In the event that the election is undecided on that date the previous administration remains until it is.

And where is that written into law? Seems to me like the Constitution directly says that ISN'T what happens.

I have added to my post... It is a very unlikely event but the current administration would continue until the issue is resolved and a transition of power scheduled by SCOTUS.

Still waiting on your citation of law. Pretty sure I didn't ask you to parrot your empty assertion.

And I know for a fact that SCOTUS has nothing to do with it.

SCOTUS is the arbitrator of all things in a federal election and most certainly that of the presidential election. I doubt however that it will ever come to that as date certain limitations on the Electoral College counts are codified into law. If a state misses that deadline their EC delegates can do nothing and the total of EC delegates is reduced by that number. The winner will be the one who has 50+ % of those remaining electors.

SCOTUS is the arbiter of all things in a federal election according to what law?

You keep making all these assertions of how things are without any evidence. When you're asked for evidence, you give me another unsubstantiated assertion instead.

It's almost as if you're a leftist who thinks reality is created by your ability to wish really loudly.

 

[bravoactual]

The President Succession Act of 1947.

3 U.S. Code § 19 - Vacancy in offices of both President and Vice President; officers eligible to act

www.law.cornell.edu

.

The line of succession is as follows.

1. President of The United States.

2. Vice President of The United States

3. Speaker of The United States House of Representatives.

4. President Pro-Tem of The United States Senate.

5. Secretary of State for The United States.

As members of both U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate are Sworn in on January 3, and there being no elected President (The President's Term will begin on January 21) the Speaker of The House becomes "Acting President".

 

[there4eyeM]

The intervention in 2000 was, how should we put it...less than constructive.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The President's term ends Jan. 20.

In the event that the election is undecided on that date the previous administration remains until it is.

And where is that written into law? Seems to me like the Constitution directly says that ISN'T what happens.

I have added to my post... It is a very unlikely event but the current administration would continue until the issue is resolved and a transition of power scheduled by SCOTUS.

Still waiting on your citation of law. Pretty sure I didn't ask you to parrot your empty assertion.

And I know for a fact that SCOTUS has nothing to do with it.

SCOTUS is the arbitrator of all things in a federal election and most certainly that of the presidential election. I doubt however that it will ever come to that as date certain limitations on the Electoral College counts are codified into law. If a state misses that deadline their EC delegates can do nothing and the total of EC delegates is reduced by that number. The winner will be the one who has 50+ % of those remaining electors.

SCOTUS is the arbiter of all things in a federal election according to what law?

You keep making all these assertions of how things are without any evidence. When you're asked for evidence, you give me another unsubstantiated assertion instead.

It's almost as if you're a leftist who thinks reality is created by your ability to wish really loudly.

You really need to read the law Title 1 US Code

 

[Billy_Bob]

It will depend on how the rest of the election goes.

I believe the President Pro Tempore would take the office, and that would currently be Grassley. BUT, if the Congressional elections count and go Democrat, then the President Pro Tempore would be a Democrat, I reckon.

In either case, the President would be neither Trump nor Biden.

Hmm....

I think the House of representatives picks our President, if no winner.... but here's the kicker, I think there is only 1 vote per state.... So I do not know how that works? Do state representatives get together and vote on who gets chosen for their state, then submit that person as the vote from their state?

Incorrect; The electoral College is the only AUTHORIZED body to do this under the US Constitution. There are date certian time lines under Title 1 US Code that codify these. They miss the deadline they lose their electors. Enjoy your mail in ballot mess because it is going to be an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The 2016 Presidential Election/Provisions of the Constitution and United States Code10

UNITED STATES CODE

The following provisions of law governing Presidential Elections are contained in Chapter 1 of Title 3, United States Code (62 Stat. 672, as amended):

Title 3 —The President Chapter

1Presidential Elections and Vacancies Section

1. Time of appointing electors.
2. Failure to make choice on prescribed day.
3. Number of electors.
4. Vacancies in electoral college.
5. Determination of controversy as to appointment of electors.
6. Credentials of electors; transmission to Archivist of the United States and to Congress; public inspection.
7. Meeting and vote of electors.
8. Manner of voting.
9. Certificates of votes for President and Vice President.
10. Sealing and endorsing certificates.
11. Disposition of certificates.
12. Failure of certificates of electors to reach President of the Senate or Archivist of the United States; demand on State for certificate.
13. Same; demand on district judge for certificate
14. Forfeiture for messenger’s neglect of duty.
15. Counting electoral votes in Congress.
16. Same; seats for officers and Members of two Houses in joint meeting.
17. Same; limit of debate in each House.
18. Same; parliamentary procedure at joint meeting.
19. Vacancy in offices of both President and Vice President; officers eligible to act.
20. Resignation or refusal of office.
21. Definitions.

 

[Nostra]

It will depend on how the rest of the election goes.

I believe the President Pro Tempore would take the office, and that would currently be Grassley. BUT, if the Congressional elections count and go Democrat, then the President Pro Tempore would be a Democrat, I reckon.

In either case, the President would be neither Trump nor Biden.

Hmm....

I think the House of representatives picks our President, if no winner.... but here's the kicker, I think there is only 1 vote per state.... So I do not know how that works? Do state representatives get together and vote on who gets chosen for their state, then submit that person as the vote from their state?

Incorrect; The electoral College is the only AUTHORIZED body to do this under the US Constitution. There are date certian time lines under Title 1 US Code that codify these. They miss the deadline they lose their electors. Enjoy your mail in ballot mess because it is going to be an unmitigated disaster.

Yep, if a state can't get their vote count in, they get thrown out.

 

[Care4all]

It will depend on how the rest of the election goes.

I believe the President Pro Tempore would take the office, and that would currently be Grassley. BUT, if the Congressional elections count and go Democrat, then the President Pro Tempore would be a Democrat, I reckon.

In either case, the President would be neither Trump nor Biden.

Hmm....

I think the House of representatives picks our President, if no winner.... but here's the kicker, I think there is only 1 vote per state.... So I do not know how that works? Do state representatives get together and vote on who gets chosen for their state, then submit that person as the vote from their state?

Incorrect; The electoral College is the only AUTHORIZED body to do this under the US Constitution. There are date certian time lines under Title 1 US Code that codify these. They miss the deadline they lose their electors. Enjoy your mail in ballot mess because it is going to be an unmitigated disaster.

If the electoral college does not meet the timeline, then Congress chooses, is my understanding.

And this is why everyone thought what the SC did in Bush v Gore was unconstitutional. The SC should have let the constitutional process, work through.