If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[thereisnospoon]

Who should go without?

Those not paying in. If you want universal healthcare then you must have universal paying for it right? Not this shit you try to sell where one group pays and others don't. Fuck that. Let's all pay equally for the exact same benefits. No specialists because that would mean someone gets more benefit. No, we all get the same treatment. We just draw a line at what basic care should be and those that exceed that limit get to die... with dignity I believe is how the English court phrased it.

You want universal care then drop the bullshit about caring for people. You just want your shit payed for. How about you pony up and pay what everyone else has to. And if you fall outside that... there's always the dignified way out.

I have universal health care for everybody over 65 in America, and I paid for it myself out of every paycheck that I earned from 1959 until my retirement, so why don't you just fuck yourself?

HUH?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Who should go without?

People on social programs. Every time this subject comes up in the media, their first concern is what about the poor people? Well, what about the working people is my question?

Working people are the ones who are paying for the non-working, and some of us working people don't have coverage ourselves. In the meantime, the poor are popping out kids like a popcorn machine and the rest of us have to support them including their medical.

So poor children and the elderly who are poor should go without?

Do you have a good argument as to why those groups should be punished for doing no wrong?

Because their own self worth is completely reliant on what they can laud over others.

Ya know this fallback position you libs rely on is a whole bunch of bullshit. NO ONE thinks this way....NO ONE

 

[Vandalshandle]

Who should go without?

Those not paying in. If you want universal healthcare then you must have universal paying for it right? Not this shit you try to sell where one group pays and others don't. Fuck that. Let's all pay equally for the exact same benefits. No specialists because that would mean someone gets more benefit. No, we all get the same treatment. We just draw a line at what basic care should be and those that exceed that limit get to die... with dignity I believe is how the English court phrased it.

You want universal care then drop the bullshit about caring for people. You just want your shit payed for. How about you pony up and pay what everyone else has to. And if you fall outside that... there's always the dignified way out.

I have universal health care for everybody over 65 in America, and I paid for it myself out of every paycheck that I earned from 1959 until my retirement, so why don't you just fuck yourself?

HUH?

You have never heard of Medicare? It was in all the papers.....

 

[dblack]

The republican elected officials should be the ones who do without health care. Also, the religious Right (god will heal them).

But, seriously, NY, do you really want the RW people to reveal just how mean spirited they really are to the poor, elderly, and children? I find it downright depressing, myself.

hey, if you're so concerned about the poor , write a check.

Health care reform isn't about helping the poor. That would be relatively easy, and much cheaper. This is about nationalizing health care, something the corporatists have been salivating over for decades.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No government regulations there for around a decade.

It's still a Muslim hellhole. Also, I love President Trump, so why would I move anywhere?

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

The false claim that Obamacare is imploding is and artificially created crisis.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's still a Muslim hellhole. Also, I love President Trump, so why would I move anywhere?

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

The false claim that Obamacare is imploding is and artificially created crisis.

You mean that insurance companies are not dropping out of the program like flies? You mean premiums are not skyrocketing? You mean it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg for a plan you can barely call insurance with 7K out of pocket expenses and 7K deductibles?

We must have some imagination, huh?

 

[danielpalos]

No government regulations there for around a decade.

It's still a Muslim hellhole. Also, I love President Trump, so why would I move anywhere?

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

End the drug war, right wingers; don't be, all political talk and no, political action.

 

[danielpalos]

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

The false claim that Obamacare is imploding is and artificially created crisis.

You mean that insurance companies are not dropping out of the program like flies? You mean premiums are not skyrocketing? You mean it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg for a plan you can barely call insurance with 7K out of pocket expenses and 7K deductibles?

We must have some imagination, huh?

Yet, the right could not even Repeal it, with a platform of nothing but repeal.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It's still a Muslim hellhole. Also, I love President Trump, so why would I move anywhere?

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

The false claim that Obamacare is imploding is and artificially created crisis.

It isn't false. And it isn't a claim. its a fact.
Insurance companies are running from it...fast. Premiums are up over 33% since its implementation and there is less availability of services.

 

[Vandalshandle]

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

The false claim that Obamacare is imploding is and artificially created crisis.

It isn't false. And it isn't a claim. its a fact.
Insurance companies are running from it...fast. Premiums are up over 33% since its implementation and there is less availability of services.

...so, of course, the solution is to allow insurance companies to sell policies with very limited benefits, which even the insurance companies themselves have stated is an open invitation to adverse selection and is unsustainable in any form!

 

[thereisnospoon]

It's still a Muslim hellhole. Also, I love President Trump, so why would I move anywhere?

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

End the drug war, right wingers; don't be, all political talk and no, political action.

What's that got to do with anything?....Do you simplistic people really want a bunch of stoners and junkies walking the streets, and driving vehicles?

 

[thereisnospoon]

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

The false claim that Obamacare is imploding is and artificially created crisis.

It isn't false. And it isn't a claim. its a fact.
Insurance companies are running from it...fast. Premiums are up over 33% since its implementation and there is less availability of services.

...so, of course, the solution is to allow insurance companies to sell policies with very limited benefits, which even the insurance companies themselves have stated is an open invitation to adverse selection and is unsustainable in any form!

That is insipid.
Essentially, your post infers that left to their own methods of selling....No, wait. I have it...
Insurance Co executive : Look if you let us sell what we want, we'll sell junk. Please stop us"...
That could possibly be the quote of the year.
Look, I heard these very same words used by some blabbermouth lefty on CNN.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

The false claim that Obamacare is imploding is and artificially created crisis.

It isn't false. And it isn't a claim. its a fact.
Insurance companies are running from it...fast. Premiums are up over 33% since its implementation and there is less availability of services.

...so, of course, the solution is to allow insurance companies to sell policies with very limited benefits, which even the insurance companies themselves have stated is an open invitation to adverse selection and is unsustainable in any form!

That is insipid.
Essentially, your post infers that left to their own methods of selling....No, wait. I have it...
Insurance Co executive : Look if you let us sell what we want, we'll sell junk. Please stop us"...
That could possibly be the quote of the year.
Look, I heard these very same words used by some blabbermouth lefty on CNN.

OK. I'll think about that for a while, and maybe I will figure out just what the hell you are trying to say...but, then, maybe not....

 

[dblack]

For those of you who don't understand how the market can resolve such issues (if its allowed to operate), if you're really stuck on the idea that government must do something(!), the best thing for the health care market would be to ban group insurance schemes altogether.

 

[Redfish]

I was surprised to learn that New Zealand and Australia do the same...so even under those systems, private insurance brings better results

And what do you mean by this?

There is private insurance, but:

The amount paid by Medicare includes:

1. patient health costs based on the Medicare benefits schedule. Typically, Medicare covers 75% of general practitioner, 85% of specialist and 100% of public in-hospital costs.
2. patients may be entitled to other concessions or benefits[8]
3. patients may be entitled to further benefits once they have crossed a so-called safety net threshold, based on total health expenditure for the year.[8]

Health care in Australia - Wikipedia

So, most of the costs are paid for by the government.

your last sentence says it all "paid for by the government" The government never pays for anything------------WE, the taxpayers pay. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

It's a government of the People, dumbass.

It's a corrupt system that allows people to vote to take money from others to pay for things they want...it's the same as holding up a liquor store, except you personally are not holding the gun.

People will often vote for their own interests.

The problem is, what you've said works both ways, what with wars for the rich to make profits and the like too. Basically there isn't any accountability in govt and everyone ends up voting negatively instead of positively, which is having a massive negative effect on the US.

funny that you would say that since in the history of the USA, its been democrats that get us into wars and republicans who find a way to end them. and yes, Truman was the exception to that but Truman would be a republican if he lived today.

 

[Redfish]

For those of you who don't understand how the market can resolve such issues (if its allowed to operate), if you're really stuck on the idea that government must do something(!), the best thing for the health care market would be to ban group insurance schemes altogether.

correct, the other basic premise that people need to understand is that the government does not have an obligation to ensure that every citizen has access to free medical care.

 

[dblack]

For those of you who don't understand how the market can resolve such issues (if its allowed to operate), if you're really stuck on the idea that government must do something(!), the best thing for the health care market would be to ban group insurance schemes altogether.

correct, the other basic premise that people need to understand is that the government does not have an obligation to ensure that every citizen has access to free medical care.

Most of the same reasoning behind prosecuting Ponzi schemes as fraud applies to group insurance. It involves the same false hopes (promises), and the same inevitable outcome - collapse with all but the originators of the scheme getting screwed.

 

[danielpalos]

AnCaps don't work, apparently.

I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask an anarcho-capitalist.

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

Libs do causes. We on the other hand, have no time for artificially created crises.....

End the drug war, right wingers; don't be, all political talk and no, political action.

What's that got to do with anything?....Do you simplistic people really want a bunch of stoners and junkies walking the streets, and driving vehicles?

Capitalism; the right wing prefers to be, clueless and Causeless.

 

[danielpalos]

For those of you who don't understand how the market can resolve such issues (if its allowed to operate), if you're really stuck on the idea that government must do something(!), the best thing for the health care market would be to ban group insurance schemes altogether.

correct, the other basic premise that people need to understand is that the government does not have an obligation to ensure that every citizen has access to free medical care.

Why not? Social safety nets are supposed to be part of the general welfare.

 

[Redfish]

For those of you who don't understand how the market can resolve such issues (if its allowed to operate), if you're really stuck on the idea that government must do something(!), the best thing for the health care market would be to ban group insurance schemes altogether.

correct, the other basic premise that people need to understand is that the government does not have an obligation to ensure that every citizen has access to free medical care.

Most of the same reasoning behind prosecuting Ponzi schemes as fraud applies to group insurance. It involves the same false hopes (promises), and the same inevitable outcome - collapse with all but the originators of the scheme getting screwed.

BS. You have a contract with the insurance company. If they breach the contract you can sue them and will win.

Who do you think is being, or has been, screwed by an insurance company breaching its contract?