If Trump had truly wanted to get a deal done with Ukraine, he...

[TemplarKormac]

Also good to know

Glad you're taking that to heart. Good on you.

 

[justoffal]

Glad you're taking that to heart. Good on you.

Well... I would much rather have the truth than a misimpression. It doesn't have to match my predilections for me to accept it.

 

[Slade3200]

Zelensky was prepped by democrats. Now that he knows what they are, he might not listen next time.

Which dems prepped him. Please support your claims with links

 

[TemplarKormac]

Well... I would much rather have the truth than a misimpression. It doesn't have to match my predilections for me to accept it.

That's an excellent stance to have. Take a side, but not to a point where it compromises your objectivity. I need to get back to that myself. Thanks for reminding me of it.

 

[JoeB131]

...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.

Nope.

You guys elected someone who has no business being president, and he just showed you why.

 

[Dragonlady]

...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.

Trump allowed Russia media - TASS, to live stream the entire sordid exchange for Vladimir Putin. This is a brutal display of Trump and Vance bullying and humiliating Velensky for Putin's entertainment.

This is the quality of people you've elected. Zelensky was always willing to sign the deal, but for Vance and Trump to lie to him, to his face, and ask him to grovel for the deal, was the most vile public display I've ever seen. Zelensky proved that he is a true leader, by not letting them bully him.

This was worse than Helsinki, when Trump rolled over and showed Putin how weak he was.

 

[TemplarKormac]

"As discussed elsewhere, the prohibition of wartime elections is established in Ukraine’s statutory law. Ukraine’s Constitution does not explicitly address the issue of wartime elections, except for Article 83(4) that provides for the extension of the Parliament’s powers until the day of the first meeting of the first session of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine (the Ukrainian Parliament), elected after the termination of martial law or state of emergency. Nothing similar is made with respect to the president. According to one of the drafters of the Constitution, this special treatment of Parliament was originally aimed to enhance Parliament’s standing in the constellation of powers and prevent possible abuses during wartime or national emergency. ...

Law of Ukraine

“On the Legal Regime of Martial Law” (2015) prohibits the holding of elections during martial law and the Electoral Code of Ukraine (2019) ordains suspension of all elections during such period. This is not an arbitrary political decision but a constitutionally viable solution aimed at ensuring stability in times of crisis. The law prevents governance from collapsing into uncertainty while the country is under extreme conditions."

Ukraine’s Constitutional Order in Wartime

verfassungsblog.de

 

[MagicMike]

Who played who?

Z had refused to sign 2 times already. So did Z agree to sign with the intent to back out and put Trump in a spot, or after being insulted onnclothes said FUCK THIS.

Im not really sure, but wirhout us getting a better deal with Russia is gonna be a whole lot harder.

Zelensky is going to have the last laugh when he makes the mining deal with European countries.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Trump allowed Russia media - TASS, to live stream the entire sordid exchange for Vladimir Putin. This is a brutal display of Trump and Vance bullying and humiliating Velensky for Putin's entertainment.

This is the quality of people you've elected. Zelensky was always willing to sign the deal, but for Vance and Trump to lie to him, to his face, and ask him to grovel for the deal, was the most vile public display I've ever seen. Zelensky proved that he is a true leader, by not letting them bully him.

This was worse than Helsinki, when Trump rolled over and showed Putin how weak he was.

Your one-sided views are getting fairly annoying.

First of all, I did vote for Trump. But what I won't do is condone that kind of behavior. That's the distinction between me and people like you. You allow for such behavior on the left if it furthers your goals. You don't care if your efforts taint the product.

 

[eagle1462010]

Trump allowed Russia media - TASS, to live stream the entire sordid exchange for Vladimir Putin. This is a brutal display of Trump and Vance bullying and humiliating Velensky for Putin's entertainment.

This is the quality of people you've elected. Zelensky was always willing to sign the deal, but for Vance and Trump to lie to him, to his face, and ask him to grovel for the deal, was the most vile public display I've ever seen. Zelensky proved that he is a true leader, by not letting them bully him.

This was worse than Helsinki, when Trump rolled over and showed Putin how weak he was.

So pony up Canada. Ukraine needs men and money.

Send them 10000 to the line and give Z another 100 BILLION.

Enjoy

 

[Seymour Flops]

The OP was right.

It was a shitshow from beginning to end and it was orchestrated by Trump

It went exactly the way he wanted it to go

It would be wise for you to assume for the next almost four years, that it will go exactly as Trump wants it to go.

 

[eagle1462010]

Here comes CANADA

 

[TemplarKormac]

Trump allowed Russia media - TASS, to live stream the entire sordid exchange for Vladimir Putin. This is a brutal display of Trump and Vance bullying and humiliating Velensky for Putin's entertainment.

This is the quality of people you've elected. Zelensky was always willing to sign the deal, but for Vance and Trump to lie to him, to his face, and ask him to grovel for the deal, was the most vile public display I've ever seen. Zelensky proved that he is a true leader, by not letting them bully him.

This was worse than Helsinki, when Trump rolled over and showed Putin how weak he was.

Furthermore, Democrats were there with Zelensky, too, giving him "encouragement."

You had Blinken, Rice, and Vindman all telling him not to be bullied by Trump.

No side was blameless in this.

 

[Oddball]

...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.

Who forced Tenpercentskyy to confront Vance after he spoke?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Really? What if it was Zelensky's desire to hold the presser?

What if? I mean, we can deal in hypotheticals if you wish.

 

[IDIOCRACY]

...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.

I think it was interesting, and could have involved some staging. When it comes to politics, it's often not what it seems. I feel like Trump crew know what they're doing.

Old saying keep your friends close and enemies closer. I wouldn't call Z a friend perhaps, but Putin is definitely the enemy. Delicate situation. There has to be concessions, otherwise Putin could give a flying fuck and will continue. A minerals deal is a great idea. Aint going to be no NATO, that's for damn sure. Fuck, even leading Democrats know that, even if they won't say so.

 

[Contumacious]

What Democrats? Cite?

Susan Rice for starters


Yesterday, Susan Rice said of the Trump-Zelensky meeting, "There is no question this was a set up." She revealed full knowledge of the mineral agreement, complained that it didn't include "concrete" security agrees (meaning, apparently, commitment of US troops on the ground if conditions merit), and then mischaracterized Trump's behavior, counting on most Americans to not have watched what transpired over the entire hour in the Oval Office.

 

[CowboyTed]

Really? What if it was Zelensky's desire to hold the presser?
If Zelensky truly wanted to get a deal done for Ukraine, all he had to do was show up appropriately dressed, act dignified and respectful, and show the slightest bit of appreciation for the enormous gift we were handing him.

Instead, he acted like a complete ass, like a little kid who got PlayStation III and twelve games for Christmas but then bitched and said he wanted XBox too.

Zelensky is at war, wartime leaders have shown up in military dress before, as I have shown above...
Trump admires Churchhill and had his bust in the Oval Office.
So the was nothing...

Zelensky was looking for guarantees for the mineral deal... Trump effectively said you are getting no guarantees and we still want the minerals deal. Zelensky then pointed out that Putin has broke two agreements before (this was to point out without a guarantee the deal is useless)...

That's when JD Vance went off on one...

Vance wasn't doing that without Trump's permission. The Russian reporter invited wasn't an accident.
This was a setup done by Trump & Co. It was crude but an obvious set up.
JD Vance & Rubio are not normally at that press meet and greet...
EU leaders know it was a setup, Trump was willing to sign a deal and let Putin break it again...

 

[TemplarKormac]

Who forced Tenpercentskyy to confront Vance after he spoke?

Who?

 

[Care4all]

He needs to know that America is now being put first and that if he wants to benefit from the strength of the U.S., he should understand that we're not going to sacrifice our own safety and economy for him.

Putting America FIRST would be supporting Ukraine and not supporting Putin, the war criminal.