If there is a God...

[ding]

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

I thought you said you were an agnostic?

Some days. Regardless of what I believe I don't think it matters to the big guy amirite?

He said it matters more to you. He'll be fine.

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

He was talking about life, not death.

 

[Penelope]

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

Kind of like, when I quit talking to God he quit talking to me. I know.

When two friends fight, one of them has to be the bigger man. Who should that be me or god? LOL

The consensus is you were never saved and I guess you have to find him again.

 

[Meriweather]

You don't know how you could know it was god. Thank you, that's what I have been asking.

Not what I said. I said I recognized God. I did say I would sleep on this overnight, and I have reached the conclusion that there is really nothing more to add. The only purpose for relating this incident is to present testimony that God is, and He loves and cares for us. The rest is up to the reader. I've told this story before so I know how it goes down with non-believers: Impossible to know. Mistaken. Dreaming. Hallucination. Brain hiccup. Among some non-Catholic Christians: This could not happen to a Catholic, so it must have been a demon.

My story, Bible accounts, and testimony by Saints and others serve one purpose only: If it happened to us, it can happen to you--nothing special about us. Seek God. He is there and He is more than a story that happened to someone else.

 

[Meriweather]

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

You were right to put away your imaginary friend. Now that you are free, seek God, not friendship. Instead of blindness, sight.

 

[Meriweather]

Then I don’t believe anyone who says they were saved by a miracle. So god isn’t intervening ever. He didn’t save my friend Pete but then ignore the 4 year old being raped

God is working on this, inspiring cloning and other means of cellular reproduction. Soon males will not be needed and the world will be well rid of them. Right?

 

[sealybobo]

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

You were right to put away your imaginary friend. Now that you are free, seek God, not friendship. Instead of blindness, sight.

You want me to pick up a superstition?

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

 

[sealybobo]

I used to have a relationship with god so I know what it’s like to have an imaginary friend. Becoming an atheist is hard. You have to put aside fear and wishful thinking to see the truth

I thought you said you were an agnostic?

Some days. Regardless of what I believe I don't think it matters to the big guy amirite?

He said it matters more to you. He'll be fine.

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

He was talking about life, not death.

No he very clearly is talking about death. "I do not fear death".

 

[Meriweather]

It just confirms my beliefs. The idea my buddy Pete thinks he had a guardian angel save him yet right now some baby is being raped. Pete's an idiot. LOL.

One of the first things Genesis tells us about mankind is that we humans wanted the knowledge of both good and evil. Our desire, our choice, was granted, and now we are bawling about all the evil in the world. The best we can do now is choose to do good in our own personal world (our life) and to root out evil when it shows up at our own door. We should each do what we can with the postage-stamp size of the earth that is in our care, under our control and make it good.

 

[Meriweather]

You want me to pick up a superstition?

Choose reality. Pretending something isn't so (i.e. Sagan's comment) may be the greater superstition.

 

[sealybobo]

Then I don’t believe anyone who says they were saved by a miracle. So god isn’t intervening ever. He didn’t save my friend Pete but then ignore the 4 year old being raped

God is working on this, inspiring cloning and other means of cellular reproduction. Soon males will not be needed and the world will be well rid of them. Right?

Who?

You want me to pick up a superstition?

Choose reality. Pretending something isn't so (i.e. Sagan's comment) may be the greater superstition.

Well I don't think it matters if someone believes in a creator. A creator of the universe certainly wouldn't care and imo it wouldn't hide either. And it wouldn't let horrible things happen to babies.

Man Charged With Raping 4-Year-Old Girl Is Now Accused of Raping 3-Year-Old

 

[Meriweather]

Well I don't think it matters if someone believes in a creator. A creator of the universe certainly wouldn't care and imo it wouldn't hide either. And it wouldn't let horrible things happen to babies.

How about horrible things happening to the elderly? Or to adults? Or to animals? Teenagers? Are you drawing the line with babies? Again, one of the first things Genesis tells us about ourselves, is that we had the desire to know both good and evil. We were warned...but we went ahead anyway. Now, we are blaming God? Both the urge to have our own way and blame someone else when it doesn't go as expected are very human traits.

 

[ding]

I thought you said you were an agnostic?

Some days. Regardless of what I believe I don't think it matters to the big guy amirite?

He said it matters more to you. He'll be fine.

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

He was talking about life, not death.

No he very clearly is talking about death. "I do not fear death".

I was referring to God, not Twain.

 

[Taz]

Well I don't think it matters if someone believes in a creator. A creator of the universe certainly wouldn't care and imo it wouldn't hide either. And it wouldn't let horrible things happen to babies.

How about horrible things happening to the elderly? Or to adults? Or to animals? Teenagers? Are you drawing the line with babies? Again, one of the first things Genesis tells us about ourselves, is that we had the desire to know both good and evil. We were warned...but we went ahead anyway. Now, we are blaming God? Both the urge to have our own way and blame someone else when it doesn't go as expected are very human traits.

I wasn't warned. Where you personally warned? Then why would god punish me outright if I am innocent? It makes no sense. A just god would not proceed in such a hateful manner.

 

[sealybobo]

Well I don't think it matters if someone believes in a creator. A creator of the universe certainly wouldn't care and imo it wouldn't hide either. And it wouldn't let horrible things happen to babies.

How about horrible things happening to the elderly? Or to adults? Or to animals? Teenagers? Are you drawing the line with babies? Again, one of the first things Genesis tells us about ourselves, is that we had the desire to know both good and evil. We were warned...but we went ahead anyway. Now, we are blaming God? Both the urge to have our own way and blame someone else when it doesn't go as expected are very human traits.

Yes I'm blaming god. He knows how he made us. And this is ridiculous. The baby wasn't warned by god. Try giving the baby a warning first too. Not fair to give Adam a chance but not us. Can we have a do over? I promise not to eat the apple.

 

[sealybobo]

Well I don't think it matters if someone believes in a creator. A creator of the universe certainly wouldn't care and imo it wouldn't hide either. And it wouldn't let horrible things happen to babies.

How about horrible things happening to the elderly? Or to adults? Or to animals? Teenagers? Are you drawing the line with babies? Again, one of the first things Genesis tells us about ourselves, is that we had the desire to know both good and evil. We were warned...but we went ahead anyway. Now, we are blaming God? Both the urge to have our own way and blame someone else when it doesn't go as expected are very human traits.

A key problem, acknowledged even by Pascal, is that one cannot force oneself to believe. That is, Disbelief Is Not a Choice. If one thinks religious doctrines are false, it’s hard to imagine that pretending to believe them will dupe an all-powerful, all-knowing God. To this, Pascal and his defenders urge the nonbeliever to at least try to believe. “Endeavor then to convince yourself,” he advised the skeptic.

Even taking this advice, however, one still must ask: Which religion should I believe? Are the Christians right, or is it the Muslims? Or should I convert to Judaism? Or Hinduism, Buddhism or something else? And the questions don’t stop there, since exclusive sectarian differences within these religions narrow the likelihood of selecting the “right” belief even further. Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox? Calvinist or Lutheran? Sunni or Shia? What if, of all the conflicting religious doctrines out there, the one verse that is right is Revelation 7:4, which says that only 144,000 people will enter heaven? The odds aren't good for any of us.

 

[sealybobo]

Well I don't think it matters if someone believes in a creator. A creator of the universe certainly wouldn't care and imo it wouldn't hide either. And it wouldn't let horrible things happen to babies.

How about horrible things happening to the elderly? Or to adults? Or to animals? Teenagers? Are you drawing the line with babies? Again, one of the first things Genesis tells us about ourselves, is that we had the desire to know both good and evil. We were warned...but we went ahead anyway. Now, we are blaming God? Both the urge to have our own way and blame someone else when it doesn't go as expected are very human traits.

I wasn't warned. Where you personally warned? Then why would god punish me outright if I am innocent? It makes no sense. A just god would not proceed in such a hateful manner.

You sir will be rewarded for your intelligence.

So, if we must assume that there is a judging deity, what are this God's criteria for judging us? More to the point, why should we assume that the path to salvation can be found among one of the numerous ancient belief systems, when it is just as possible that God would reward those who, thinking critically and utilizing their God-given reason, reject those ancient doctrines and hold out for more evidence? That is, the very existence of implausible dogmas might be God’s way of tempting us, of seeing which of us has fortitude and independence of mind. Eternal bliss awaits the critical thinker!

 

[sealybobo]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

If one is inclined toward disbelief, one can breathe easy knowing that her odds of eternal bliss are just as strong as any believer’s. The nonbeliever can be true to herself without pretending to accept something that she rejects inside. Perhaps more importantly in the modern world, she has no reason to outwardly embrace and validate institutions and belief systems that, in her heart, deserve no loyalty and in fact often stand as obstacles to a better world.

 

[ding]

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

I don't know about your life. Six incidents in my own life immediately sprang to mind that point to the actuality of God greatly caring for individuals on a deeply personal level.

I suspect what you want is the answer to, "How can I make God perform like that in my own life--and no later than day after tomorrow?"

Anthropomorphic fallacy.

A deity with human attributes is not omnipotent, not a 'god' – it is consequently unworthy of worship and devoid of moral and religious authority.

You have to wonder why this god isn’t even as good as you and I are. For example I would have given hitler a heart attack before he did what he did. Any pedophile or rapist would have heart attacks right before they committed their acts.

If god can watch a child get raped he’s fucked up if he could do something but doesn’t.

Obviously, you have absolutely no concept of the relationship between God and man - and you're the poorer for it.

If one is inclined toward disbelief, one can breathe easy knowing that her odds of eternal bliss are just as strong as any believer’s. The nonbeliever can be true to herself without pretending to accept something that she rejects inside. Perhaps more importantly in the modern world, she has no reason to outwardly embrace and validate institutions and belief systems that, in her heart, deserve no loyalty and in fact often stand as obstacles to a better world.

And you have totally missed the point when you think that faith is about death rather than life.

 

[Meriweather]

A key problem, acknowledged even by Pascal, is that one cannot force oneself to believe. That is, Disbelief Is Not a Choice. If one thinks religious doctrines are false, it’s hard to imagine that pretending to believe them will dupe an all-powerful, all-knowing God. To this, Pascal and his defenders urge the nonbeliever to at least try to believe. “Endeavor then to convince yourself,” he advised the skeptic.

Even taking this advice, however, one still must ask: Which religion should I believe? Are the Christians right, or is it the Muslims? Or should I convert to Judaism? Or Hinduism, Buddhism or something else? And the questions don’t stop there, since exclusive sectarian differences within these religions narrow the likelihood of selecting the “right” belief even further. Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox? Calvinist or Lutheran? Sunni or Shia? What if, of all the conflicting religious doctrines out there, the one verse that is right is Revelation 7:4, which says that only 144,000 people will enter heaven? The odds aren't good for any of us.

I am from a family of atheists--none of whom will ever be found on a religion forum, any more than I would ever be found on an atheist forum. You people are unlike any atheist I know. You don't believe--so what! Why are you here on a religion forum excusing your non-belief? What do you get from telling people of faith that you have an extremely skewed view of the Bible, but that this skewed view should be taken seriously by people of faith when even you do not take it seriously?

My own opinion is that perhaps even people of faith rely too much on the Bible and spend too much time on ancient stories instead of working on their own stories. God did not just show up in the lives of early man and then disappear. He is every bit here today as He was then. And, I'm willing to bet, not all stories of God back then made it into the Bible. Certainly no stories since have. Perhaps modern man needs to make known their own stories so that people of future generations know that God is always with us, and He can be found.

Worrying about the "correct" faith or denomination is a no-brainer. Choose the one that draws you closer to God, remembering it will do you no good at all if you cannot incorporate those teachings and those practices into your daily life. As an atheist, my husband is content with doing the best he can relying on himself to be a good person. He is convinced if there is a God, God will be the first to understand his non-belief. And...that non-belief doesn't require the stupid excuse of non-belief because bad things happen to babies.

 

[Meriweather]

So, if we must assume that there is a judging deity, what are this God's criteria for judging us? More to the point, why should we assume that the path to salvation can be found among one of the numerous ancient belief systems, when it is just as possible that God would reward those who, thinking critically and utilizing their God-given reason, reject those ancient doctrines and hold out for more evidence? That is, the very existence of implausible dogmas might be God’s way of tempting us, of seeing which of us has fortitude and independence of mind. Eternal bliss awaits the critical thinker!

Ancient doctrine: Non-believers will be judged by their own hearts. Keep in mind we are often harder on ourselves. People who actually use God-given reason have a different understanding of scripture than what non-believers pretend they, in their own reasoning and wisdom, know best.