If the Communist Party of US thinks Pork Bill was a success then it must be

[Misty]

"The term “conservatism” is invested with different meanings depending on a country's political culture because culture determines exactly what it is that conservatism seeks to conserve"


EVXpress - R. PIPES. Russian Conservatism and Its Critics: A Study in Political Culture-Social Sciences,2009,No. 2

 

[Neotrotsky]

Soviet history. Let's talk about it. In response to a king (Czar) the people of Russia revolted, in 1917. The new government murdered the Czar and his family and established a totalitarian autocratic rule. The people were no better off under Lenin, Stalin, et al.
It was not 'Communism', per se, it was the conservative nature of autoratic rule which created the terror so well characterized by Arthur Koestler in "Darkness at Noon" and documented by Solzhenitsyn in "The Gulag Archipelago".
I've not read any posts celebrating soviet history or "Communism" on this message board. If there are, they are few (post a reference if I'm wrong).

Red Baiting on the other hand is prolific on this MB however, and a common practice by some very stupid regular posters. Shall I name names?

Speaking of stupid

the left apologists for the Soviet Union always try to make the excuse that "it was not really communist"

Let me guess, the US left would go a better job at it?

According the Marx, Communism is the end result after what?

Dictatorship of the proletariat

So you and the rest of the left can twist and spin, poorly, on how the Soviet Union was not really "communist", if it makes you feel better about yourself

The rest of us will see it for what it is- a poor attempt to rewrite history


Of course, to be fair, with the horrific failures of communism, one can understand the left's desire to not be associated with them.
It might make people question their ideas

I don't "twist and spin" nor am I a party of the "left". To so characterize me is nothing more than an ad hominem attack. Your post is that, and it's probative value suggests you are a dilettant in political discourse, willfully ignorant and an extreme partisan.

Partisan- how dare I


I really don't care what you call yourself or what you associate yourself with
From your ignorant postings, it seemed like a safe assumption to see you as "left of center". No insult was intended.

However, your dependency on tired left arguments is either naive or disingenuous. Ignorant, my friend, is trying to claim that the Soviets were not really communists. The "conservative nature of autoratic rule", why yes that is the problem with the soviets, not the theory. Did you know that this was the same "conservative nature" gov't that allowed for women to vote and for abortions before the US. But more power to you, it is your story and you can tell it anyway you want to make yourself feel better

Funny how even after all these years, we see the left trying to connect any negative actions or outcomes with the left with some type of "conservative" twist

For example, in the latest IRS attack
The guy sounds like another crazy Marxist nut.

From his screed:

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the Washington Post, a writer actually edited out the Communism endorsement -- without even an ellipsis to indicate his omission -- in order to blame the Tea Partiers.

Follow the link and note the parts of the manifesto quoted by Capehart. Yes, of course the anti-Bush rhetoric and screeching about health care is omitted, but something even more revealing is omitted too. Here’s how Stack’s manifesto actually ended:

Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

And here’s how Capehart quotes the ending:

Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.
Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

What’s missing?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We see not much has changed for the left

Anything negative with the left- blame on some type of conservative idea

This is no surprise. The left has always mastered in rewriting history

So let us see if we have your apologist "version" of history here correct:

Soviets were not really communists and anything bad they did is because of conservative tendencies ?

Does this new and improved version of history include China and Cambodia as well?

Thank you for clearing that up for us
We were starting to worry that maybe something was wrong the left's ideas themselves

 

[Wry Catcher]

"The term “conservatism” is invested with different meanings depending on a country's political culture because culture determines exactly what it is that conservatism seeks to conserve"


EVXpress - R. PIPES. Russian Conservatism and Its Critics: A Study in Political Culture-Social Sciences,2009,No. 2

Interesting article, too bad you didn't post all of it.
My point, however, was and is, that the revolution of 1917 happened, and those who came to power (Lenin, et al) had no experience in governance. Their greatest fear was in losing what they had won, and so they defended it (the new status quo). Any outside effort to change was a threat, a civil war raged and in order to preserve their power, Lenin and his aides Stalin and Trotsky organized the Extraordinary Commission to Combat Counter-Revolution.
The Revolutionaries thus became the defenders of the status quo, one definition of conservativism; the one I suggested. No one would ever consider the leadership of the USSR progressive, and ideas which conflicted with those in power needed to be surpressed, and has been every since.

 

[Neotrotsky]

"The term “conservatism” is invested with different meanings depending on a country's political culture because culture determines exactly what it is that conservatism seeks to conserve"


EVXpress - R. PIPES. Russian Conservatism and Its Critics: A Study in Political Culture-Social Sciences,2009,No. 2

Interesting article, too bad you didn't post all of it.
My point, however, was and is, that the revolution of 1917 happened, and those who came to power (Lenin, et al) had no experience in governance. Their greatest fear was in losing what they had won, and so they defended it (the new status quo). Any outside effort to change was a threat, a civil war raged and in order to preserve their power, Lenin and his aides Stalin and Trotsky organized the Extraordinary Commission to Combat Counter-Revolution.
The Revolutionaries thus became the defenders of the status quo, one definition of conservativism; the one I suggested. No one would ever consider the leadership of the USSR progressive, and ideas which conflicted with those in power needed to be surpressed, and has been every since.

I linked to the article, I posted only the germane parts for the point.


The fundamental problem is the overbearing intrusion of the gov't. History has shown us that time after time. It is, if you will. the "nature of the beast".

Regardless or what political jargon one wants to put on it, it is the "size" of the gov't.
Dismantling of the free market system by any kind of gov't will always end in the destruction of individual economic and personal freedom.

No matter how good the intentions. It is cliche but true, the "road to hell is paved with good intentions".

 

[mudwhistle]

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government." Thomas Jefferson

Obama is just engaging in good government.

That's the impression he likes to give....but it's a false impression.

You would be shocked what he's really doing without your knowledge.

But then again maybe not.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Speaking of stupid

the left apologists for the Soviet Union always try to make the excuse that "it was not really communist"

Let me guess, the US left would go a better job at it?

According the Marx, Communism is the end result after what?

Dictatorship of the proletariat

So you and the rest of the left can twist and spin, poorly, on how the Soviet Union was not really "communist", if it makes you feel better about yourself

The rest of us will see it for what it is- a poor attempt to rewrite history


Of course, to be fair, with the horrific failures of communism, one can understand the left's desire to not be associated with them.
It might make people question their ideas

I don't "twist and spin" nor am I a party of the "left". To so characterize me is nothing more than an ad hominem attack. Your post is that, and it's probative value suggests you are a dilettant in political discourse, willfully ignorant and an extreme partisan.

Partisan- how dare I


I really don't care what you call yourself or what you associate yourself with
From your ignorant postings, it seemed like a safe assumption to see you as "left of center". No insult was intended.

However, your dependency on tired left arguments is either naive or disingenuous. Ignorant, my friend, is trying to claim that the Soviets were not really communists. The "conservative nature of autoratic rule", why yes that is the problem with the soviets, not the theory. Did you know that this was the same "conservative nature" gov't that allowed for women to vote and for abortions before the US. But more power to you, it is your story and you can tell it anyway you want to make yourself feel better

Funny how even after all these years, we see the left trying to connect any negative actions or outcomes with the left with some type of "conservative" twist

For example, in the latest IRS attack
The guy sounds like another crazy Marxist nut.

From his screed:

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the Washington Post, a writer actually edited out the Communism endorsement -- without even an ellipsis to indicate his omission -- in order to blame the Tea Partiers.

Follow the link and note the parts of the manifesto quoted by Capehart. Yes, of course the anti-Bush rhetoric and screeching about health care is omitted, but something even more revealing is omitted too. Here’s how Stack’s manifesto actually ended:

Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

And here’s how Capehart quotes the ending:

Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.
Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

What’s missing?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We see not much has changed for the left

Anything negative with the left- blame on some type of conservative idea

This is no surprise. The left has always mastered in rewriting history

So let us see if we have your apologist "version" of history here correct:

Soviets were not really communists and anything bad they did is because of conservative tendencies ?

Does this new and improved version of history include China and Cambodia as well?

Thank you for clearing that up for us
We were starting to worry that maybe something was wrong the left's ideas themselves

You continue to post 'my' defense of communism. I don't defend it, never have, never will. I've been very clear on my politics, including economic matters, I am a Democrat because I support labor (as something noble) over capital - but (BUT!) both need the other.
I admire Robert Owen (1771-1858) who, though a utopian at heart, demonstrated that industry could sponsor humanitarian projects and still make profits.
I need to go, the wife is ready. More on this debate later.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

If their $850 Billion "Stimulus" worked so great,why are they pushing for a new "Jobs Bill?" Just seems ludicrous to me. No true Conservative could vote Yea on this new "Jobs Bill" debacle. Hopefully Scott Brown will listen. I just heard he's waffling a bit on this new debacle. Time to clean house for sure. The Dems gotta go. Make 2010 count people.

 

[Toro]

I remember reading that the KKK supported tax cuts.

Guess they must always be good, then.

 

[Modbert]

I remember Stalin hated Hitler too. Guess that makes hating Hitler to be a nasty thing that Communists do.

 

[Modbert]

I remember reading that the KKK supported tax cuts.

Guess they must always be good, then.

And the KKK is extremely pro-life.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I remember Stalin hated Hitler too. Guess that makes hating Hitler to be a nasty thing that Communists do.

Was that before or after the The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (Non-Aggression pact between Soviets and Nazis) ?
You know the one that allowed both Germany and the Soviet Union to invade Poland around the same time.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I remember reading that the KKK supported tax cuts.

Guess they must always be good, then.

And the KKK is extremely pro-life.

And the KKK has their roots in the Democratic Party

(ask Sen. Byrd)

 

[Modbert]

Be a little more dishonest Neo.

 

[Modbert]

And the KKK has their roots in the Democratic Party

(ask Sen. Byrd)

Actually the KKK has their roots in the racists of the time. This happened to be in the South which at the time was ruled by Democrats. This is before the Southern Strategy. Another part of History that Republicans such as yourself like to ignore.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Be a little more dishonest Neo.

and stop being like you?

 

[Toro]

I remember reading that the KKK supported tax cuts.

Guess they must always be good, then.

And the KKK is extremely pro-life.

And the KKK has their roots in the Democratic Party

(ask Sen. Byrd)

And Barry Goldwater said that one day, he would be considered a liberal by his own party.

 

[Modbert]

and stop being like you?

What are you? A middle schooler?

What's next? Some rubber and glue comments?

You're a immature partisan hack who is exactly what is wrong with this country today.

 

[Neotrotsky]

And the KKK is extremely pro-life.

And the KKK has their roots in the Democratic Party

(ask Sen. Byrd)

And Barry Goldwater said that one day, he would be considered a liberal by his own party.

What's your point

And Norman Thomas said
(Socialist Party presidential candidate in 1940, 1944 and 1948.)

“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But under the name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened.”

 

[Toro]

What's your point

Parties change.

 

[Neotrotsky]

What's your point

Parties change.

Perhaps direction

but the core for both parties has been the same for years