If Obamacare is so great why are there no insurers backing it and

[Vandalshandle]

It is about opportunity costs; sinking money in healthcare is better than sinking money in a drug war.

Maybe - but it's still "sinking" money. Or rather, funneling it through the insurance industry and then sinking it into their bank accounts.

Why would You care, if we can redistribute income from the drug war to healthcare?

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

 

[dblack]

Maybe - but it's still "sinking" money. Or rather, funneling it through the insurance industry and then sinking it into their bank accounts.

Why would You care, if we can redistribute income from the drug war to healthcare?

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

That's silly, and certainly has nothing to do with my comment. Believe it or not, it's really not a binary choice between getting screwed by government or getting screwed by corporations.

 

[debbiedowner]

since this was about insurers leaving I would imagine if the new bill released today is passed more will come back into exchanges. They're giving a lot of money to insurance companies.

 

[dblack]

since this was about insurers leaving I would imagine if the new bill released today is passed more will come back into exchanges. They're giving a lot of money to insurance companies.

Ta-da!

 

[Vandalshandle]

It isn't going to pass. Republicans can't even agree on the time of day. And, In spite of the republicans trying to sabotage ACA, the insurance industry will be able to keep it afloat.

 

[Slyhunter]

how does Obamacare work without insurers

When you figure this out, let Obama know because he has no idea

How is it possible that RWNJs still don't understand how ObamaCares works and how their own health is forfeit by the Rs they vote for?

And why can't they find the ObamaCares forum?

[emoji849]


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

simple, because it doesn't work. insurers are leaving the markets in many states, premiums and deductibles are skyrocketing, people are without any coverage for the first 20K or so of medical costs, the Medicaid rolls have drastically increased, young people are paying the fines rather than buy a very expensive policy that they don't want or need.

Socialized medicine always fails, always has, always will. The free market is the only system that works.

Actually you can lie and say you have insurance on your tax form, pay no fine, and nobody will check.

 

[dblack]

It isn't going to pass. Republicans can't even agree on the time of day. And, In spite of the republicans trying to sabotage ACA, the insurance industry will be able to keep it afloat.

There is no doubt in my mind that, short of armed insurrection, Congress will take care of the insurance industry first and foremost.

 

[debbiedowner]

It isn't going to pass. Republicans can't even agree on the time of day. And, In spite of the republicans trying to sabotage ACA, the insurance industry will be able to keep it afloat.

No, I doubt it will either. I may have misstated last night that more insurers may comeback with the extra money allotted, they won't come back and more may pull out because the individual mandate is taken out and in fact made it retro back to Dec 31, 2015. Insurers won't play along without the mandate.

 

[debbiedowner]

how does Obamacare work without insurers

When you figure this out, let Obama know because he has no idea

How is it possible that RWNJs still don't understand how ObamaCares works and how their own health is forfeit by the Rs they vote for?

And why can't they find the ObamaCares forum?

[emoji849]


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

simple, because it doesn't work. insurers are leaving the markets in many states, premiums and deductibles are skyrocketing, people are without any coverage for the first 20K or so of medical costs, the Medicaid rolls have drastically increased, young people are paying the fines rather than buy a very expensive policy that they don't want or need.

Socialized medicine always fails, always has, always will. The free market is the only system that works.

Actually you can lie and say you have insurance on your tax form, pay no fine, and nobody will check.

Well yes and no, many have gotten away with it because of lack of oversight at IRS. If you have insurance the insurance company sends a 1095B to IRS and a copy to you to file with your taxes. If they ever cross check then you're caught and audited. If you've ever been audited (which I have) they sent me the letter just short of 3 years for the year they were auditing, then when I got there you are guilty the minute you walk in the door, then they decided to go back another two years.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Maybe - but it's still "sinking" money. Or rather, funneling it through the insurance industry and then sinking it into their bank accounts.

Why would You care, if we can redistribute income from the drug war to healthcare?

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

 

[danielpalos]

It is about opportunity costs; sinking money in healthcare is better than sinking money in a drug war.

Maybe - but it's still "sinking" money. Or rather, funneling it through the insurance industry and then sinking it into their bank accounts.

Why would You care, if we can redistribute income from the drug war to healthcare?

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

it isn't. it is only in charge of access to healthcare.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Why would You care, if we can redistribute income from the drug war to healthcare?

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

Thank you Shackles for the health insurance lecture. Why, I learned so much from you that I did not know as a result of my 50 year career as a health insurance and HMO executive! I have no idea how I managed to reach the level of VP of Underwriting and Compliance without your insight! On top of that, I was one of three founders of two start up HMO's, that succeeded and merged with Humana and United. How I did that without you just boggles my mind!

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

Thank you Shackles for the health insurance lecture. Why, I learned so much from you that I did not know as a result of my 50 year career as a health insurance and HMO executive! I have no idea how I managed to reach the level of VP of Underwriting and Compliance without your insight! On top of that, I was one of three founders of two start up HMO's, that succeeded and merged with Humana and United. How I did that without you just boggles my mind!

Is that why you can't come up with any legislation or bill enacted through Congress that has effectively been able to lower healthcare costs and premiums? Obviously Senator Kennedy felt that government needed to step in and Congress established the HMO Act, because HE felt the government could do a better job at making healthcare more "cost effective". I've provided my facts, so what exactly has kept you from showing us how much more effective our government can be? Evidently you can't think outside of your own resume.

 

[danielpalos]

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

Thank you Shackles for the health insurance lecture. Why, I learned so much from you that I did not know as a result of my 50 year career as a health insurance and HMO executive! I have no idea how I managed to reach the level of VP of Underwriting and Compliance without your insight! On top of that, I was one of three founders of two start up HMO's, that succeeded and merged with Humana and United. How I did that without you just boggles my mind!

I guess HMO and catastrophic health care won't work without some sort of mandate.

 

[danielpalos]

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

Thank you Shackles for the health insurance lecture. Why, I learned so much from you that I did not know as a result of my 50 year career as a health insurance and HMO executive! I have no idea how I managed to reach the level of VP of Underwriting and Compliance without your insight! On top of that, I was one of three founders of two start up HMO's, that succeeded and merged with Humana and United. How I did that without you just boggles my mind!

Is that why you can't come up with any legislation or bill enacted through Congress that has effectively been able to lower healthcare costs and premiums? Obviously Senator Kennedy felt that government needed to step in and Congress established the HMO Act, because HE felt the government could do a better job at making healthcare more "cost effective". I've provided my facts, so what exactly has kept you from showing us how much more effective our government can be? Evidently you can't think outside of your own resume.

Solving for simple poverty on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States can ensure greater liquidity in our markets. Compensation for Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment on an at-will basis means capitalism will function normally, regardless of labor market conditions.

 

[dblack]

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

Thank you Shackles for the health insurance lecture. Why, I learned so much from you that I did not know as a result of my 50 year career as a health insurance and HMO executive! I have no idea how I managed to reach the level of VP of Underwriting and Compliance without your insight! On top of that, I was one of three founders of two start up HMO's, that succeeded and merged with Humana and United. How I did that without you just boggles my mind!

Hmmm... I'm surprised you didn't refute anything he posted.

 

[dblack]

It is about opportunity costs; sinking money in healthcare is better than sinking money in a drug war.

Maybe - but it's still "sinking" money. Or rather, funneling it through the insurance industry and then sinking it into their bank accounts.

Why would You care, if we can redistribute income from the drug war to healthcare?

Because I don't want government in charge of health care.

it isn't. it is only in charge of access to healthcare.

Wanna bet?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

Thank you Shackles for the health insurance lecture. Why, I learned so much from you that I did not know as a result of my 50 year career as a health insurance and HMO executive! I have no idea how I managed to reach the level of VP of Underwriting and Compliance without your insight! On top of that, I was one of three founders of two start up HMO's, that succeeded and merged with Humana and United. How I did that without you just boggles my mind!

Is that why you can't come up with any legislation or bill enacted through Congress that has effectively been able to lower healthcare costs and premiums? Obviously Senator Kennedy felt that government needed to step in and Congress established the HMO Act, because HE felt the government could do a better job at making healthcare more "cost effective". I've provided my facts, so what exactly has kept you from showing us how much more effective our government can be? Evidently you can't think outside of your own resume.

I've been posting on this board since 2013 that the only way this country can have sustainable health coverage for all is through expanding Medicare to cover all citizens. My insurance career began in June, 1965, one month before Medicare went into effect, and endured for 15 years of hearing the RW scream that we were under a commie takeover and that it would fail, before they gave up. .I can't really be blamed if you have not been paying attention. Anything less will result in adverse selection and spiraling loss ratios. It really is that simple.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I guess you are going to be really unhappy when you become a Medicare insured. Of course, you would not have to worry about that if there was no government Medicare program, because private insurers used to decline almost everyone at age 65 and older.

It definitely bothers me. We'll see how it goes, but power gets used. If we give government power over our health care, government will use it to control us. Maybe you imagine government as an eternally beneficial force in the world, but I've seen different.

OH, no, not me! I know for a fact that the only people you can trust are capitalistic entrepreneurs!, like Enron, Goldman Sacs, United Health, United Airlines, and Wells Fargo!

A little history of government's involvement in our healthcare program.


Congress created Medicare in 1965
making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance.

As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for EVERYONE'S health care and promoted the idea of a Health Maintenance Organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.


Congress passed the HMO Act in 1973.
The law created new, supposedly "cheaper" health coverage (does that feel good slogan sound familiar?) with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Result? The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual.


Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

Since the passage of the HMO Act in 1973, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.


The Federal Government and Congress has created this health care mess all under the assumption "we can make it more affordable". Now democrats want to dump the whole thing into single payer, and you think (with the liberal democrats prior track record) they can make it all SO much better? Don't make me laugh.

Thank you Shackles for the health insurance lecture. Why, I learned so much from you that I did not know as a result of my 50 year career as a health insurance and HMO executive! I have no idea how I managed to reach the level of VP of Underwriting and Compliance without your insight! On top of that, I was one of three founders of two start up HMO's, that succeeded and merged with Humana and United. How I did that without you just boggles my mind!

Hmmm... I'm surprised you didn't refute anything he posted.

Black, I was well paid for what I did in my health insurance career. I have no intention to educate those that don't know a thing about health insurance, for free. I am sure that it is true that Trump was surprised at how complicated health insurance can be, but if he had hired someone who had been in the business and spent more than 30 seconds listening to him, he might have been educated enough to actually work toward a solution. BTW, everybody screams about how fast rates are going up. Back in the late 70's and early 80's, during the Carter years, I was building in inflation rates of 24% on standard risk group health plans one year contracts...and that was WITHOUT adverse selection.

 

[dblack]

Hmmm... I'm surprised you didn't refute anything he posted.

Black, I was well paid for what I did in my health insurance career. I have no intention to educate those that don't know a thing about health insurance, for free..

Then I'll take Shackle's post as gospel, and yours as an old man grumbling. His outline is certainly how I remember it all going down - and looking back, it was exactly the government subsidizing employer-provided HMOs that sunk the boat. And now you want a bailout. This is as bad as Bush and Obama bailing out the banksters after they fucked up the home mortgage market.