If I Shake my Fist at the Sky

[Uncensored2008]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

You might be wondering "Why the fuck did that go so badly for me?" Sometime in the future.

And yet here we are, five years after my challenge to The God of Abraham, and I remain one of the luckiest little bastards that I know.

Either The God of Abraham is completely impotent or He doesn't exist or the ancient Arab tales that describe Him screwed the pooch regarding how much He gives a shit about the people who worship him. A whole lotta Bahamians worship this God....

What? Was He pissed off about how their tourism industry is raping the planet and more than willing to sacrifice them for Mar-a-lago and West Palm Beach?

Give me a friggin' break!​

What do you mean "ancient Arab?"

The Arabs didn't migrate from North Africa to the middle east until the 3rd century AD, Islam didn't arrive until the 6th century.

I find it amusing that you wage war against something you claim doesn't exist.

If you TRULY didn't believe, you would ignore it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Is that the best argument you've got to defend God?

​

Why would I "defend" god? If there is a god, why would he need me to defend him?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If there is a god, why would he need me to defend him?

A fair question! But, try to take into account that we hear all thetime that god is vain, vengeful, demands worship, gets personally miffed when penises touch, etc etc. So the god being presented seems awfully weak and insecure.

 

[Manonthestreet]

And for my next trick I will prove God doesn't exist because he doesn't strike me down...…….great stuff...…..wonder if God laughed or just shook his head

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And for my next trick I will prove God doesn't exist because he doesn't strike me down...…….great stuff...…..wonder if God laughed or just shook his head

Probably complained about not being worshipped. He's a complainer.

 

[presonorek]

Can you prove your existence by posting something? God can't and/or won't.

Why isn’t what he created enough evidence for you?

None of the creation is signed. It could have been Zeus.

Oh, so you are trying to prove who the creator is before you decide if there was a creator.

It’s stupid shit like that that makes me not believe your bullshit story about yourself.

If you created something could I use what you created as evidence even if I didn’t know who created it? Think, McFly, think.

Don't get confused. I didn't start this thread.

Doesn’t matter if you did start it. You have been given more than enough evidence for a creator.

What is the creator's identity? and how do you know what He/She/They/It wants from me?

 

[Andylusion]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

Not really.

G-d is under no obligation to prove anything to you. It's kind of like you shaking your fist at me, and saying that you are not impressed with my existence.

My response would be something along the lines of.... "That's nice" and I move on.....

That much is all it would take, Bro.

And I seriously doubt that you would let it get to me shaking my fist at you in frustration over your lack of response. I imagine that you would jump right in at "Hey Bud..."

That much would prove your existence to me. I could then acknowledge your presence and offer to buy you a beer and see if you are worth spending any of my precious Time with.

Time is the only currency that the greedy can't hoard or manipulate. It MUST be spent wisely.

`​

I assume that you have seen at some point, those videos where the lady in the car is freaking out at a police officer that pulled her over. The lady, or guy, ends up tased, arrested, sometimes maced, and ends up going to jail.

I've been pulled over more than a few times in my life, some for speeding, some for things I thought were bad calls on the officers part.

In all cases, I responded to a "Yes Sir", and obeyed every command I was given, even if I thought the officer was incorrect in giving me a ticket. In all cases, I have never been tazed, never maced, never dragged out of my car, arrested or sent to jail.

Throughout life, how you approach people, makes a difference in how they respond. If you are freaking out at the cashier, they are less likely to give you a refund on your cold chicken nuggets.

When I worked at a Grocery store, I can remember one specific cashier, that their standard practice on a price lookup, depended on how the customer asked. If they asked in anger or frustration, or condescendingly, she would pick up the phone and call the manager. This would hold up the customer, and everyone behind them, until the manager came and did the price lookup.

If the customer asked pleasantly with politeness and courtesy, then the cashier will do the lookup herself, taking just a minute or two.

I would wager that if people came to you yourself, and asked for help on a matter, that you would also be less inclined to help if they asked in a demanding fashion, with an "I'm owed your help" attitude. Equally, I wager you would be more inclined to help, if they asked humbly, and politely with a "I know you don't have to, but I would appreciate it" attitude.

Now if you can understand that, at a human level... please apply that to G-d. You are not 'owed' a response. If you don't want to believe, it's all good with G-d. That's on you.

If you really, honestly, politely, wish that G-d will make himself known to you... I personally am a firm believer that G-d does answer honest people, asking honest questions. I firmly believe this. I know it's true, because G-d has responded to me at times in my life. I know he's there, and he is with me, and he will always be there. It's not even a debatable question in my life.

Now I don't know what is going on in your life, that led you to the point you are shaking your fist at G-d. We all have pain and suffering in our lives. Sometimes of our own making, and other times, from those around us.

But G-d didn't do that. This world is screwed up because of us, not him. So acting like we are owed something.... no we are not. None of us are.

I don't think anybody ever gets pissed at G-d. People get pissed at what others say G-d is. It is a quite confusing thing if you think about it. People like you tell us we are horrible for not loving G-d. It would be like everybody in your life telling you that you don't love Dave Wentonteen enough and you should be careful because one day Dave Wentontern is going to kick your butt cheeks.

Assume you heard this all your life from 90% of the people you knew. Wouldn't you want to kick Dave Wentonteen's ass or even assume there is no Dave Wentonteen?

I would somewhat agree with that.
If you are going to spend your life listening to what others say about X topic.... then you will likely end up with multiple confusing answers.

This is one of the reasons that I tend to only listen to people in passing, and then focus on what their documents actually say.

So, for example, I don't really pay much attention to everyone who says "Islam says this" and "Muslims do that". Because if you run into 5 different Muslims, you'll get 5 different answers.

So instead, I bought a Qur'an and read through parts of it, to see what it actually says.

My suggestion for those who have that problem with Christianity, is read the Bible. Start in the book of John. What does G-d say about himself?

 

[presonorek]

What does G-d say about himself

Nothing. I have to rely on the written work of others. Honestly that is less reliable than a half baked religious nut job. I have no idea who even wrote those books thus I cannot identify their motive.

I will rely on what God says to me and follow His instructions exactly to a T. So far He has said nothing to me.

 

[Andylusion]

What does G-d say about himself

Nothing. I have to rely on the written work of others. Honestly that is less reliable than a half baked religious nut job. I have no idea who even wrote those books thus I cannot identify their motive.

I will rely on what God says to me and follow His instructions exactly to a T. So far He has said nothing to me.

Have you ever bought any product, and needed to know how to make the product work? I bought some bluetooth headphones, and I had no idea how to pair them with my computer.

When that happens.... do you try and contact the CEO of the manufacturer? Or do you read the instructions?

Do you know specifically who wrote those instructions, and what their motivation was? I don't. Who knows who wrote those instructions. Could have been an intern on the job for only a week, who hates the company, but just wants to put this internship down on his resume and leave.

I still read the instructions.

All throughout the Bible, G-d speaks to his people through other people. First it was prophets and priests, then it was through apostles, and now through his book, and his church.

Now G-d has 'spoken' to me at times, like answers to prayers, sometimes even while I was still praying.

However, G-d has never audibly responded to me, with a voice.

I think I would ask myself, why do I demand that G-d answer me, the way that I want him to, and ignore his answers to me the way he wants to?

 

[presonorek]

What does G-d say about himself

Nothing. I have to rely on the written work of others. Honestly that is less reliable than a half baked religious nut job. I have no idea who even wrote those books thus I cannot identify their motive.

I will rely on what God says to me and follow His instructions exactly to a T. So far He has said nothing to me.

Have you ever bought any product, and needed to know how to make the product work? I bought some bluetooth headphones, and I had no idea how to pair them with my computer.

When that happens.... do you try and contact the CEO of the manufacturer? Or do you read the instructions?

Do you know specifically who wrote those instructions, and what their motivation was? I don't. Who knows who wrote those instructions. Could have been an intern on the job for only a week, who hates the company, but just wants to put this internship down on his resume and leave.

I still read the instructions.

All throughout the Bible, G-d speaks to his people through other people. First it was prophets and priests, then it was through apostles, and now through his book, and his church.

Now G-d has 'spoken' to me at times, like answers to prayers, sometimes even while I was still praying.

However, G-d has never audibly responded to me, with a voice.

I think I would ask myself, why do I demand that G-d answer me, the way that I want him to, and ignore his answers to me the way he wants to?

I will just stick to what God wants me to do and then I will do that.

I can't submit to the hundreds of demands of everybody who uses God's name.

 

[ding]

And no one knows what that means because it doesn’t mean anything.

.
certainly not to one that employs what is meant to be defeated.

That would be you then.

 

[ding]

Can you prove your existence by posting something? God can't and/or won't.

Why isn’t what he created enough evidence for you?

None of the creation is signed. It could have been Zeus.

Oh, so you are trying to prove who the creator is before you decide if there was a creator.

It’s stupid shit like that that makes me not believe your bullshit story about yourself.

If you created something could I use what you created as evidence even if I didn’t know who created it? Think, McFly, think.

Don't get confused. I didn't start this thread.

Doesn’t matter if you did start it. You have been given more than enough evidence for a creator.

Perhaps..... but that doesn't prove the existence of The God of Abraham as defined in the ancient stories of The Torah, The New Testament and The Qur'an.

Bury The God of the Ancient Arabs and Jews with the ancient Arabs and Jews and start enjoying The God of (insert your name here).

`​

I didn’t realize the OP was singling out the God of Abraham, Joe.

Maybe you should go back an re-read it.

Seems to me that the question of does God exist and who is God are two different questions.

 

[ding]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

You might be wondering "Why the fuck did that go so badly for me?" Sometime in the future.

And yet here we are, five years after my challenge to The God of Abraham, and I remain one of the luckiest little bastards that I know.

Either The God of Abraham is completely impotent or He doesn't exist or the ancient Arab tales that describe Him screwed the pooch regarding how much He gives a shit about the people who worship him. A whole lotta Bahamians worship this God....

What? Was He pissed off about how their tourism industry is raping the planet and more than willing to sacrifice them for Mar-a-lago and West Palm Beach?

Give me a friggin' break!​

Joe, I think your idea of what God is is more fucked up than Bill Clinton’s idea of what sex is.

 

[ding]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

It proves you're an idiot.

Is that the best argument you've got to defend God?

​

I’m pretty sure the creator of existence can take care of himself. A better question is what does your assault on God say about you.

 

[ding]

What does G-d say about himself

Nothing. I have to rely on the written work of others. Honestly that is less reliable than a half baked religious nut job. I have no idea who even wrote those books thus I cannot identify their motive.

I will rely on what God says to me and follow His instructions exactly to a T. So far He has said nothing to me.

Have you ever bought any product, and needed to know how to make the product work? I bought some bluetooth headphones, and I had no idea how to pair them with my computer.

When that happens.... do you try and contact the CEO of the manufacturer? Or do you read the instructions?

Do you know specifically who wrote those instructions, and what their motivation was? I don't. Who knows who wrote those instructions. Could have been an intern on the job for only a week, who hates the company, but just wants to put this internship down on his resume and leave.

I still read the instructions.

All throughout the Bible, G-d speaks to his people through other people. First it was prophets and priests, then it was through apostles, and now through his book, and his church.

Now G-d has 'spoken' to me at times, like answers to prayers, sometimes even while I was still praying.

However, G-d has never audibly responded to me, with a voice.

I think I would ask myself, why do I demand that G-d answer me, the way that I want him to, and ignore his answers to me the way he wants to?

I will just stick to what God wants me to do and then I will do that.

I can't submit to the hundreds of demands of everybody who uses God's name.

What does God want you to do?

 

[ding]

If there is a god, why would he need me to defend him?

A fair question! But, try to take into account that we hear all thetime that god is vain, vengeful, demands worship, gets personally miffed when penises touch, etc etc. So the god being presented seems awfully weak and insecure.

And you read those verses critically instead of for meaning.

 

[ding]

Why isn’t what he created enough evidence for you?

None of the creation is signed. It could have been Zeus.

Oh, so you are trying to prove who the creator is before you decide if there was a creator.

It’s stupid shit like that that makes me not believe your bullshit story about yourself.

If you created something could I use what you created as evidence even if I didn’t know who created it? Think, McFly, think.

Don't get confused. I didn't start this thread.

Doesn’t matter if you did start it. You have been given more than enough evidence for a creator.

What is the creator's identity? and how do you know what He/She/They/It wants from me?

His identity? God is no thing. God is more like a verb than a noun. I don’t believes he cares what name you use for him, just that you call him.

What does he want from you? The short answer is to be.

The longer answer is to be fruitful and multiple; To do as he has done and create for six days and then rest; To become the best version of yourself that you can become.

But you asked how I know, right? Because I am awake.

 

[ding]

And for my next trick I will prove God doesn't exist because he doesn't strike me down...…….great stuff...…..wonder if God laughed or just shook his head

Probably complained about not being worshipped. He's a complainer.

The poetry in those ancient writings is beyond your ability to comprehend. Not because you lack the intelligence to understand it, but because you lack the objectivity to discover the wisdom. Therefore, you mock what you do not understand.

 

[ding]

What does G-d say about himself

Nothing. I have to rely on the written work of others. Honestly that is less reliable than a half baked religious nut job. I have no idea who even wrote those books thus I cannot identify their motive.

I will rely on what God says to me and follow His instructions exactly to a T. So far He has said nothing to me.

Read Huston Smith’s world religions to discover the proper attitude to employ to seek understanding.

He has said plenty to you. You aren’t listening or understand how he works.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If there is a god, why would he need me to defend him?

A fair question! But, try to take into account that we hear all thetime that god is vain, vengeful, demands worship, gets personally miffed when penises touch, etc etc. So the god being presented seems awfully weak and insecure.

I hear all the time that the deity is a goddess, GAIA who is punishing man for being successful, for carbon sins and will destroy the entire world unless we all go back to poverty and servitude. Give up air conditioning for peasants, give up your cars, go only where your masters allow and when. Live in small cages in large cities, eat only what your masters tell you.

I find that godess far more dangerous to a thriving humanity than the old god.