If gun background checks are so important....why won't anti-gun enthusiasts support free phone app?

[2aguy]

I bring this up a bunch because it highlights the truth about the anti-gun call for universal background checks. In reality, they do not care about universal background checks......they care about registering guns...and they see universal background checks as a way to demand and get gun registration......

The get universal background checks.....criminals still get guns by stealing them, or they use straw buyers to buy the guns for them, since straw buyers can pass any background check at any location...gun store, gun show, or the Denny's parking lot.....

Mass public shooters continue to get guns because they have clean criminal records...so they too can pass any background check....

So once universal background checks are on the books, and criminals and mass shooters still get guns....that is when the anti-gun enthusiasts will come back and demand gun registration......they will say that obviously.....universal background checks can't work if we don't know who originally owns the gun....so we now demand universal gun registration...and if you don't give us registration, you want kids to die....

And this leads me to my question......the one that forces them to expose the above truth...

We develop a free phone app for background checks...guns or otherwise....you plug in the buyers name, birthday, drivers license number, social security number......and from the app you learn if the buyer is a felon, has outstanding warrants, has restraining orders, or mental health holds......it is free, can be done by anyone, anywhere, at anytime.......

But does not require gun registration for any reason...........

O.K........does this free phone app make sense...do you support it......

And........those who want gun control.....do you support this new app?

 

[hadit]

I bring this up a bunch because it highlights the truth about the anti-gun call for universal background checks. In reality, they do not care about universal background checks......they care about registering guns...and they see universal background checks as a way to demand and get gun registration......

The get universal background checks.....criminals still get guns by stealing them, or they use straw buyers to buy the guns for them, since straw buyers can pass any background check at any location...gun store, gun show, or the Denny's parking lot.....

Mass public shooters continue to get guns because they have clean criminal records...so they too can pass any background check....

So once universal background checks are on the books, and criminals and mass shooters still get guns....that is when the anti-gun enthusiasts will come back and demand gun registration......they will say that obviously.....universal background checks can't work if we don't know who originally owns the gun....so we now demand universal gun registration...and if you don't give us registration, you want kids to die....

And this leads me to my question......the one that forces them to expose the above truth...

We develop a free phone app for background checks...guns or otherwise....you plug in the buyers name, birthday, drivers license number, social security number......and from the app you learn if the buyer is a felon, has outstanding warrants, has restraining orders, or mental health holds......it is free, can be done by anyone, anywhere, at anytime.......

But does not require gun registration for any reason...........

O.K........does this free phone app make sense...do you support it......

And........those who want gun control.....do you support this new app?

I'd be a little concerned about having to divulge identifying information to a stranger who might be buying a gun for a few hundred bucks in return for stealing your identity, but I like the concept.

 

[DudleySmith]

They aren't interested in gun control, they're just trying to not seem like racist vermin while they try and disarm a lot of white people without looking bad doing it. They have no arguments, just an agenda, and it involves disarming white people and then promoting even more violence and hate crimes against them.

 

[pknopp]

I wouldn't buy a gun from anyone that looked me up and if I was to sell one, I would not use the app to sell it to them either.

I am not law enforcement.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I'd be a little concerned about having to divulge identifying information to a stranger who might be buying a gun for a few hundred bucks in return for stealing your identity, but I like the concept.

Guns should be registered. The transfer and sale of guns should be registered.

 

[Vastator]

I bring this up a bunch because it highlights the truth about the anti-gun call for universal background checks. In reality, they do not care about universal background checks......they care about registering guns...and they see universal background checks as a way to demand and get gun registration......

The get universal background checks.....criminals still get guns by stealing them, or they use straw buyers to buy the guns for them, since straw buyers can pass any background check at any location...gun store, gun show, or the Denny's parking lot.....

Mass public shooters continue to get guns because they have clean criminal records...so they too can pass any background check....

So once universal background checks are on the books, and criminals and mass shooters still get guns....that is when the anti-gun enthusiasts will come back and demand gun registration......they will say that obviously.....universal background checks can't work if we don't know who originally owns the gun....so we now demand universal gun registration...and if you don't give us registration, you want kids to die....

And this leads me to my question......the one that forces them to expose the above truth...

We develop a free phone app for background checks...guns or otherwise....you plug in the buyers name, birthday, drivers license number, social security number......and from the app you learn if the buyer is a felon, has outstanding warrants, has restraining orders, or mental health holds......it is free, can be done by anyone, anywhere, at anytime.......

But does not require gun registration for any reason...........

O.K........does this free phone app make sense...do you support it......

And........those who want gun control.....do you support this new app?

The same reason they won't make the stolen gun data base public. It's about control, fees, and keeping the possibility open that an otherwise law abiding citizen might mistep...

 

[Zincwarrior]

I'd be a little concerned about having to divulge identifying information to a stranger who might be buying a gun for a few hundred bucks in return for stealing your identity, but I like the concept.

Sounds like a NCIS check but through your phone.

 

[2aguy]

Guns should be registered. The transfer and sale of guns should be registered.

Why?

 

[2aguy]

Sounds like a NCIS check but through your phone.

Exactly...........and it would be free....and no gun registration needed.........and you can do background checks to your hearts desire...

And yet.......those who oppose gun ownership do not support it, even with their never ending demands for universal background checks.....

 

[2aguy]

Guns should be registered. The transfer and sale of guns should be registered.

Other than to later confiscate them, why would you register guns?

These countries and states have done it.....and gained nothing by it.....

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.


As to solving crimes....it doesn't...
10 Myths About The Long Gun Registry

Myth #4: Police investigations are aided by the registry.
Doubtful. Information contained in the registry is incomplete and unreliable. Due to the inaccuracy of the information, it cannot be used as evidence in court and the government has yet to prove that it has been a contributing factor in any investigation. Another factor is the dismal compliance rate (estimated at only 50%) for licensing and registration which further renders the registry useless. Some senior police officers have stated as such: “The law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered ... the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.


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https://www.quora.com/In-countries-...olved-at-least-in-part-by-use-of-the-registry



Tracking physical objects that are easily transferred with a database is non-trivial problem. Guns that are stolen, loaned, or lost disappear from the registry. The data is has to be manually entered and input mistakes will both leak guns and generate false positive results.

Registries don’t solve straw-purchases. If someone goes through all of the steps to register a gun and simply gives it to a criminal that gun becomes unregistered. Assuming the gun is ever recovered you could theoretically try and prosecute the person who transferred the gun to the criminal, but you aren’t solving the crime you were trying to. Remember that people will prostitute themselves or even their children for drugs, so how much deterrence is there in a maybe-get-a-few-years for straw purchasing?

Registries are expensive. Canada’s registry was pitched as costing the taxpayer $2 million and the rest of the costs were to be payed for with registration fees. It was subject to massive cost overruns that were not being met by registrations fees. When the program was audited in 2002 the program was expected to cost over $1 billion and that the fee revenue was only expected to be $140 million.

No gun recovered. If no gun was recovered at the scene of the crime then your registry isn’t even theoretically helping, let alone providing a practical tool. You need a world where criminals meticulously register their guns and leave them at the crime scene for a registry to start to become useful.

Say I have a registered gun, and a known associate of mine was shot and killed. Ballistics is able to determine that my known associate was killed with the same make and model as the gun I registered. A registry doesn’t prove that my gun was used, or that I was the one doing the shooting. I was a suspect as soon as we said “known associate” and the police will then being looking for motive and checking for my alibi.
====
In the Pittsburgh Tribune Review: Pa. gun registry waste of money, resources - Crime Prevention Research Center

Gun-control advocates have long claimed that a comprehensive registry would be an effective safety tool. Their reasoning is straightforward: If a gun has been left at a crime scene, the registry will link the crime gun back to the criminal.

Nice logic, but reality has never worked that way. Crime guns are rarely left at crime scenes. The few that are have been unregistered — criminals are not stupid enough to leave behind a gun that’s registered to them. When a gun is left at the scene, it is usually because the criminal has been seriously injured or killed. These crimes would have been solved even without registration.

Registration hasn’t worked in Pennsylvania or other places. During a 2001 lawsuit, the Pennsylvania State Police could not identify a specific crime that had been solved through the registration system from 1901 to 2001, though they did claim that it had “assisted” in a total of four cases but they could provide no details.

During a 2013 deposition, the Washington, D.C., police chief said that she could not “recall any specific instance where registration records were used to determine who committed a crime.”

When I testified before the Hawaii State Senate in 2000, the Honolulu chief of police also stated that he couldn’t find any crimes that had been solved due to registration and licensing. The chief also said that his officers devoted about 50,000 hours each year to registering and licensing guns. This time is being taken away from traditional, time-tested law enforcement activities.

Of course, many are concerned that registration lists will eventually be used to confiscate people’s guns. Given that such lists have been used to force people to turn in guns in California, Connecticut, New York and Chicago, these fears aren’t entirely unjustified.

Instead of wasting money and precious police time on a gun registry that won’t solve crime, Pennsylvania should get rid of the program that we already have and spend our resources on programs that matter. Traditional policing works, and we should all be concerned that this bill will keep even more officers from important duties.


Bullet tracking..

Maryland scraps gun "fingerprint" database after 15 failed years
Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns was a failure.

Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to authorities. The idea was to build a database of "ballistic fingerprints" to help solve future crimes.

But the system — plagued by technological problems — never solved a single case. Now the hundreds of thousands of accumulated casings could be sold for scrap.

"Obviously, I'm disappointed," said former Gov. Parris N. Glendening, a Democrat whose administration pushed for the database to fulfill a campaign promise. "It's a little unfortunate, in that logic and common sense suggest that it would be a good crime-fighting tool."

The database "was a waste," said Frank Sloane, owner of Pasadena Gun & Pawn in Anne Arundel County. "There's things that they could have done that would have made sense. This didn't make any sense."

 

[Zincwarrior]

Exactly...........and it would be free....and no gun registration needed.........and you can do background checks to your hearts desire...

And yet.......those who oppose gun ownership do not support it, even with their never ending demands for universal background checks.....

Cool. You wouldn't need an app (but it would be easier). Make the NCIS available to everyone for purchases.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Guns should be registered. The transfer and sale of guns should be registered.

What good would that do?

 

[2aguy]

Cool. You wouldn't need an app (but it would be easier). Make the NCIS available to everyone for purchases.

That is the point............free, and no gun registration required.......you could use your phone anywhere for this......even at a gun show......

But then, what would anti-gunners complain about? Well...everything else....but the gun show dishonesty would be harder to push...

 

[pknopp]

That is the point............free, and no gun registration required.......you could use your phone anywhere for this......even at a gun show......

But then, what would anti-gunners complain about? Well...everything else....but the gun show dishonesty would be harder to push...

So if I wanted to know about my new neighbors, I could just put their name in the app?

 

[hadit]

So if I wanted to know about my new neighbors, I could just put their name in the app?

You can do that now online, but this would require more, like birth date and SS#. That's what would give me pause, making that info available to the guy you're buying from.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Arrest records are public information.

 

[pknopp]

You can do that now online, but this would require more, like birth date and SS#. That's what would give me pause, making that info available to the guy you're buying from.

Horrible idea IMO. What a great set up for scammers. As I said, I would never give this info to a stranger.

 

[pknopp]

Arrest records are public information.

Medical records are not.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Medical records are not.

You don't get medical records with an NCIS check. I think the OP just wants the ability to do an NCIS check with an APP.

 

[pknopp]

You don't get medical records with an NCIS check. I think the OP just wants the ability to do an NCIS check with an APP.

So if there is a mental health reason, all is good?

I suppose it's all moot as I don't own a gun to sell but I have no desire to question the Constitutional Rights of others.