Zone1 If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[hadit]

Not just the christian god, any god.

If they were real it would be self evident.

From a guy who spend decades as a preacher:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”



Feel free to explain why he is wrong or right.

Obvious troll is being obvious, but here is why he is wrong. The Early Church did not need a book to know about Jesus. They had the evidence of seeing the works done by the apostles and other believers, then of their own experiences following Him.

 

[hadit]

Nobody "programmed" DNA. It's the end result of several billion years of randomness.

Which is totally ridiculous. Information, data, and self-correcting information storage and transmission mechanisms do not come from randomness.

 

[The Irish Ram]

My car is real, but it still came with an instruction manual. Our Bible is our instruction manual...

 

[sealybobo]

If atheism were the right answer, then atheists would be the ones with their lives totally together. Good judgment goes across the board. Wisdom in the most important area means wisdom in all areas. Atheists would have the highest rate of marital success, the lowest rates, of alcoholism, drug abuse and depression, the lowest suicide rates, the highest SAT scores, the highest achievement, the best jobs, the most service to others in the world, the most in charitable contributions, the most scientific discoveries, the most inventions..........So why is it the opposite in all these areas??

Not necessarily. Being superstitious and liking groups has it's benefits. Being religious serves a purpose. Promotes community. And living a clean/good life where you give thanks and make yourself a better person can be good things. Still doesn't mean you are using wisdom in being faithful. To me it's so obviously man made up bs. I get it that it makes you feel good but it's certainly not intelligent and people who don't believe tend to be really smart. Too smart to buy into organized religion. Sorry, just can't buy a fairytale no matter how passionately you tell me the story. It just doesn't make any sense. And it shouldn't to you but you are clearly convinced.

The second you tell me god sent him, mary was a virgin or that he rose from the grave after being dead 3 days, you lose me. And that should lose you too but it doesn't. Please don't go into the reasons why you believe the impossible happened 2000 years ago. Then I have to hear Muslims tell me their 1000 year old story. And Moses happened 5000 years ago. And God talked to Joseph Smith 300 years ago. But that's the last time he visited.

What is "the right answer"? Believing a fairtale story? The only different between your story and a fairytale is fairytales happened a long time ago in a far off place. Your story happened around 2000 years ago in a very very remote place on earth. And no one who saw it wrote your bibles. Those were written hundreds of years later.

So your theory that if we were right we'd be the supreme beings on this planet is not right. AND, we are still very young. Perhaps when more people shed this religion bullshit we will be better off. And less easily conned into wars with Arabs.

If the powers that control you can convince you that the Jesus story really happened, I guess they can convince you that elections were stolen and that we need to go to another war in the middle east easy pease.

Maybe you are right. Look at Trump. Clearly not a religious man. Not even close. He's horrible. But Bush was just as bad and he was very religious. SO there goes your theory.

P.S. Atheism isn't the best position to have. Agnostic Atheist is. I'm agnostic about if there is a God. But I'm atheist when it comes to your religion. Does it matter than Christians are happier? Ignorance is bliss.

 

[ding]

My dad keeps going on and on about how there must be a god. It's "common sense" as he likes to say. I try to explain to him how it doesn't make scientific sense at all but he won't listen. There just MUST BE a creator. And then of course comes all the cherry picking from the bible. The things he likes he uses and the things he doesn't believe he admits are made made but ultimately, he believes. It's so stupid. So primitive. Superstitious. I get all the reasons why people believe but come on people.

I notice the story about God immediately starts out with on day one God did this. But no explanation as to how he got where he was? What was he doing before this? None of it makes any sense.

But okay so I told my dad FINE, there must be a higher power. A creator. But we don't know what that is right? You're just thanking whatever it is that created the universe that led to you being alive for 80 years. Right? RIGHT he says. So okay fine. But why does it bother you then that I'm not as convinced as you are? What harm is there saying you see no evidence of a creator?

I'm okay with people believing there must be a God. No problem with that. But don't tell me I'm going to go to hell for not believing that he visited 2000, 1000, 300 years ago. Not buying any of that.

And laws should be based on making this God happy. If you think it cares about people

1. Don't screw up the atmosphere or environment
2. Definitely don't kill or drop bombs on people needlessly
3. Be a good person. Karma is real
4. Don't lie. Although some lies are good for people. Like Religions. He didn't visit but it's important they think he did.
5. I don't think a God cares if you believed in him. If he did he'd visit more often.

Blackrook

It had to be you who necro's this thread. SMH.

It is the Glory of God to have critics that are ignorant.

 

[sealybobo]

If atheism were the right answer, then atheists would be the ones with their lives totally together. Good judgment goes across the board. Wisdom in the most important area means wisdom in all areas. Atheists would have the highest rate of marital success, the lowest rates, of alcoholism, drug abuse and depression, the lowest suicide rates, the highest SAT scores, the highest achievement, the best jobs, the most service to others in the world, the most in charitable contributions, the most scientific discoveries, the most inventions..........So why is it the opposite in all these areas??

I love this site. It lists all the bad arguments religious people make for why they believe a God exists and it gives the proper reply. You are soooo wrong.

1. People who believe in god are happier.​

   The claim that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.
   
   Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy, lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.
   
   Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life. Atheists, by comparison, may also simply be unhappy with the level of distrust and persecution they receive from their compatriots.
   
   “Where ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise.” – Thomas Gray
   
   Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car and no one will let you drive.

Number 11

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

 

[sealybobo]

If atheism were the right answer, then atheists would be the ones with their lives totally together. Good judgment goes across the board. Wisdom in the most important area means wisdom in all areas. Atheists would have the highest rate of marital success, the lowest rates, of alcoholism, drug abuse and depression, the lowest suicide rates, the highest SAT scores, the highest achievement, the best jobs, the most service to others in the world, the most in charitable contributions, the most scientific discoveries, the most inventions..........So why is it the opposite in all these areas??

If Christianity were the right answer, then Christians would be the ones with their lives totally together. Are they the ones?

 

[Mashmont]

If Christianity were the right answer, then Christians would be the ones with their lives totally together. Are they the ones?

Yes, for the most part.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, for the most part.

Well then yea, for the most part we have our shit together too. I posted several ways we do better than you religious dopes.

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life.

Like I said, ignorance is bliss. So you are happy.

And

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

So no. Not for the most part.

 

[Mashmont]

I love this site. It lists all the bad arguments religious people make for why they believe a God exists and it gives the proper reply. You are soooo wrong.

1. People who believe in god are happier.​

   The claim that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.
   
   Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy, lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.
   
   Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life. Atheists, by comparison, may also simply be unhappy with the level of distrust and persecution they receive from their compatriots.
   
   “Where ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise.” – Thomas Gray
   
   Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car and no one will let you drive.

Number 11

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

Everything in this post is either misleading or ridiculously wrong. One is atheists rarely bother to marry, so claims citing “few divorces” are meaningless. Their shack ups and marriages fail at the highest rate. They lead all belief groups in alcoholism, drug abuse, and suicides.

 

[Mashmont]

Well then yea, for the most part we have our shit together too. I posted several ways we do better than you religious dopes.

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life.

Like I said, ignorance is bliss. So you are happy.

And

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

So no. Not for the most part.

Odd how you skirt the alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, and suicide problem. Not signs of people who have things figured out.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Everything in this post is either misleading or ridiculously wrong. One is atheists rarely bother to marry, so claims citing “few divorces” are meaningless. Their shack ups and marriages fail at the highest rate. They lead all belief groups in alcoholism, drug abuse, and suicides.

.

Good points. Highest rate of use of psychotropic pHARMa and visits to therapists. Thus stating very clearly that there is something distinctly WRONG with them, that they feel the need to fix.

.

 

[BS Filter]

Not just the christian god, any god.

If they were real it would be self evident.

From a guy who spend decades as a preacher:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”



Feel free to explain why he is wrong or right.

He's wrong because creation proves there's a God. Examine every living creature and if you believe that's an accident, I have some ocean-front property in Montana to sell you.

 

[sealybobo]

Odd how you skirt the alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, and suicide problem. The. There is the selfishness problem.

Of course organized religion has some benefits. If not no one would join. Doesn't make it real.

Research indicates that religious beliefs often serve as a protective factor, with devout individuals consuming less alcohol.

While nominal Christians may have similar or higher divorce rates than non-Christians, active believers (attending church regularly) see rates 30–50% lower than the national

Most of you are nominal Christians right? Not active believers. Just believing in God doesn't make you happier or get less divorces. You have to go to church regularly and most of you don't.

So should I join Islam? The Muslim divorce rate is at 30% in North America.

 

[Mashmont]

Of course organized religion has some benefits. If not no one would join. Doesn't make it real.

Research indicates that religious beliefs often serve as a protective factor, with devout individuals consuming less alcohol.

While nominal Christians may have similar or higher divorce rates than non-Christians, active believers (attending church regularly) see rates 30–50% lower than the national

Most of you are nominal Christians right? Not active believers. Just believing in God doesn't make you happier or get less divorces. You have to go to church regularly and most of you don't.

So should I join Islam? The Muslim divorce rate is at 30% in North America.

I put the unaffiliateds into the atheist category. It’s really the same thing in practice.

 

[sealybobo]

.

Good points. Highest rate of use of psychotropic pHARMa and visits to therapists. Thus stating very clearly that there is something distinctly WRONG with them, that they feel the need to fix.

.

Maybe we just don't worry about some god watching us as we puff and pass the joint?

And I know MANY theists who smoke weed. God will forgive them. We all sin right?

It would relieve stress to think I can sin and a God just forgives it. And to not worry about what happens when I die. I'm going to heaven. That would provide me with great joy if I could believe that. But nothing tells me that's reality.

Anyways, God could totally be real. Not your God, just a God. Know what I mean? I don't know if there is a higher power that put all this here for us. Doesn't seem to be the case but maybe there is something to that. Maybe we are his aquarium and before us came first Trilobites for millions of years, then Dinosaurs after them for millions of years and then finally, after billions of years, us humans showed up around 10,000 years ago. So God got the fish bowl started 13 million years ago and the entire universe was made for us. At least our solar system was made for us.

But does it even matter if I believe that? And it's totally possible. When I start calling out BS is when you guys try to tell us your stories are real. Moses and burning bush's, Jesus and Mary and rising from the dead. Joseph Smith and Mohammad too. Gimme a break.

But hey, you guys are happy. Like retards are happy.

 

[sealybobo]

I put the unaffiliateds into the atheist category. It’s really the same thing in practice.

True. But remember, we aren't all atheists. Atheists say "I'm sure there is no god" category. I don't do that. I'm just sure all man made religions are made up.

Dude, I see my brothers wonderful life and can't help but believe being religious has paid off for him. But not just him. Every family I see in Church. At least the ones I know well, are all great people and great families. There must be something to it. If you go to Church, and live decent good honest lives, things seem to work out.

But look at Trump. Definitely he's in the unaffiliated category. Don't you think he's a winner and happy? I don't. He doesn't drink though. I doubt religion is why.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Maybe we just don't worry about some god watching us as we puff and pass the joint?

And I know MANY theists who smoke weed. God will forgive them. We all sin right?

It would relieve stress to think I can sin and a God just forgives it. And to not worry about what happens when I die. I'm going to heaven. That would provide me with great joy if I could believe that. But nothing tells me that's reality.

Anyways, God could totally be real. Not your God, just a God. Know what I mean? I don't know if there is a higher power that put all this here for us. Doesn't seem to be the case but maybe there is something to that. Maybe we are his aquarium and before us came first Trilobites for millions of years, then Dinosaurs after them for millions of years and then finally, after billions of years, us humans showed up around 10,000 years ago. So God got the fish bowl started 13 million years ago and the entire universe was made for us. At least our solar system was made for us.

But does it even matter if I believe that? And it's totally possible. When I start calling out BS is when you guys try to tell us your stories are real. Moses and burning bush's, Jesus and Mary and rising from the dead. Joseph Smith and Mohammad too. Gimme a break.

But hey, you guys are happy. Like retards are happy.

.

Hammered that point very well.







.

 

[Crepitus]

If atheism were the right answer, then atheists would be the ones with their lives totally together. Good judgment goes across the board. Wisdom in the most important area means wisdom in all areas. Atheists would have the highest rate of marital success, the lowest rates, of alcoholism, drug abuse and depression, the lowest suicide rates, the highest SAT scores, the highest achievement, the best jobs, the most service to others in the world, the most in charitable contributions, the most scientific discoveries, the most inventions..........So why is it the opposite in all these areas??

We mostly are.

 

[Crepitus]

Gd told me to tell you that he’s very real and truly sorry he couldn’t make it any more obvious to you

Obvious to me?

What about everybody else?