If God doesn't exist...

[Damaged Eagle]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and it doesn't cover the big bang. Additionally I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Hollie]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[sealybobo]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and it doesn't cover the big bang. Additionally I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

You are thick as a brick

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Is There a God?

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Hollie]

Is There a God?

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Why would any of the gods need to be bothered with such trivial matters as "maximum entropy"? Wouldn't a single snap of their magical digits be enough to magically *poof* all of creation into existence?

Are you suggesting that your triune gods need such a formidable unionized collection of gods to get the job of universe building done?

 

[Damaged Eagle]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

You're the one that refers to it as magic.

I've continually stated that 'I observe God and his/her wondrous works every day.'

Do you like the equation?

*****CHUCKLE*****

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Why.....

*****CHUCKLE*****





.....of course!

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Why would any of the gods need to be bothered with such trivial matters as "maximum entropy"? Wouldn't a single snap of their magical digits be enough to magically *poof* all of creation into existence?

Are you suggesting that your triune gods need such a formidable unionized collection of gods to get the job of universe building done?

Perhaps a reading comprehension course might help you?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[sealybobo]

Is There a God?

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

What do you think will happen after the last star burns out in 10 billion years?

Even if there's a god you think this is his last universe?

Why do you think that?

 

[sealybobo]

Is There a God?

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

What do you think will happen after the last star burns out in 10 billion years?

Even if there's a god you think this is his last universe?

Why do you think that?

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Why would any of the gods need to be bothered with such trivial matters as "maximum entropy"? Wouldn't a single snap of their magical digits be enough to magically *poof* all of creation into existence?

Are you suggesting that your triune gods need such a formidable unionized collection of gods to get the job of universe building done?

That makes more sense. I just can't believe there's one God but multiple gods maybe. And then there must be multiple devils. I wonder if the god of our universe is a good God or average or great God.

In another universe humans die as soon as they give birth. Like salmon they drop their eggs and die or get eaten by bear.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

What do you think will happen after the last star burns out in 10 billion years?

Even if there's a god you think this is his last universe?

Why do you think that?

Why do you care?

You're the one who said some new universe will be formed after entropy envelopes the universe like resurrecting a person form the grave.

Prove it!

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[zaangalewa]

Is There a God?

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. ...

The wrong sentence "everything happene by accident" has nearly nothing to do with the theory of evolution - and "intelligent design" has nearly nothing to do with the belief in god and his creation. God created for example the natural laws we subsumize under the expression "biological evolution". Or if people are speaking for example about an "evolution of cars" or an "evolution of software" than the use of the word "evolution" in such contextes makes no sense at all. Everything what human beings are producing follows plans. If we think about the plans of gods - Why made he what's here? Why in this way? - then we find very fast some points where we are not able to think about any longer. We need to trust in god not only sometimes. Oh by the way. Alleluja:

He's risen. Indeed he is risen.

 

[Hollie]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

You're the one that refers to it as magic.

I've continually stated that 'I observe God and his/her wondrous works every day.'

Do you like the equation?

*****CHUCKLE*****

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

View attachment 69154

Why.....

*****CHUCKLE*****





.....of course!

That's interesting. Are you also hearing "the voices" when you witness the gods?

How many of the gods do you witness on an average day?


Do they appear more or less often when you forget your meds?


*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Hollie]

Unfortunately, that is all the same apologetics spewed by the Institute for Creation Research and every other fundamentalist creation ministry.

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

What do you think will happen after the last star burns out in 10 billion years?

Even if there's a god you think this is his last universe?

Why do you think that?

I must admit that it requires a lot more faith to believe that everything happened by accident instead of by intelligent design. One cannot even get the brake pads installed on his car by accident. Even that minor job requires intelligence to accomplish. Most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos.

I'm afraid your comments are literal reiteration of ID'iot creationist playbook material. The harshness of Natural Selection -- all the mass extinctions, competition for survival, all of that contradicts the notion of the "finely tuned universe" that you're promoting on behalf of the Christian fundamentalist ministries. In effect, you're implying that your gods are incompetent designers. The "finely tuned" universe was tuned by inept mechanics. Be sure to thank the gods for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and all manner of "acts of the gods" that kill people. Oh, and thank the gods for the blueprint for the cancer cell. Those gods, they have such a wry sense of humor.


In connection with your "random chance" comment, and with specific regard to biological evolution, you make a mistake common among those unfamiliar with evolutionary processes and those pressing an agenda derived from Christian creation ministries. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Your comment: "most random mutations only produce destruction and chaos." Is nonsensical.

Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving - The Panda's Thumb

Evolution by natural selection is driven by the continuous generation of adaptive mutations. We measured the genomic mutation rate that generates beneficial mutations and their effects on fitness in Escherichia coli under conditions in which the effect of competition between lineages carrying different beneficial mutations is minimized. We found a rate on the order of 10-5 per genome per generation, which is 1000 times as high as previous estimates, and a mean selective advantage of 1%. Such a high rate of adaptive evolution has implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance and pathogenicity.

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the hopelessness of ID'iot creationism as a means to explain anything. Firstly, it has been demonstrated that there is nothing in ID'iot creationism that can be used as a reliable or even useful way to detect ‘super-magical design’. Secondly, nothing in ID'iot creationism can exclude Darwinian evolution ie:, natural selection as a mechanism even when your super-magical designer gawds are presumed as the cause of existence. Thirdly ID'iot creationism has failed as a mechanism to make predictions based upon the extant theory (as science does) leaving ID'iot creationism shown to be useful only as a trivial, non-scientific absurdity.

Without the lie that God visited them they really don't have very good arguments.

The cosmos are. They always will be and always have been. Our universe may only last 23 billion years but it won't be the last universe to ever be created. The cosmos are eternal. They're no need for a God. What made the cosmos? What made God? Nothing is perfect

If there was no cosmos what would there be?

Now why are there Suns? Who knows? Maybe God made them.

Not knowing is half the fun.

After maximum entropy has happened you have no more proof that a new universe will be formed than someone being resurrected from the dead.

Sounds like you're attempting to develop scientific creation theologies to me.

What makes your beliefs any better than theirs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Why would any of the gods need to be bothered with such trivial matters as "maximum entropy"? Wouldn't a single snap of their magical digits be enough to magically *poof* all of creation into existence?

Are you suggesting that your triune gods need such a formidable unionized collection of gods to get the job of universe building done?

That makes more sense. I just can't believe there's one God but multiple gods maybe. And then there must be multiple devils. I wonder if the god of our universe is a good God or average or great God.

In another universe humans die as soon as they give birth. Like salmon they drop their eggs and die or get eaten by bear.

There are gods of fire and thunder so I wouldn't want to slight the poor salmon and not dedicate a god or two to their well-being.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

You're the one that refers to it as magic.

I've continually stated that 'I observe God and his/her wondrous works every day.'

Do you like the equation?

*****CHUCKLE*****

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

View attachment 69154

Why.....

*****CHUCKLE*****





.....of course!

That's interesting. Are you also hearing "the voices" when you witness the gods?

How many of the gods do you witness on an average day?


Do they appear more or less often when you forget your meds?


*****CHUCKLE*****

You're the one who appears to think there are multiple gods along with seeing and hearing things that aren't there.

The question now is why you are resorting to personal attacks after I've provided you the basic information that you've requested?

The obvious conclusion is because you've decided that you've lost the argument and feel it necessary to be abusive like all good progressive liberal inquisitors.

Will you be adapting the Templar March and Flag to your Holy Scientific Crusade?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[zaangalewa]

@sealbody: You "know " very exact what your selfdefined enemies are thinking: it's wrong what they are thinking while you are right because you don't believe but you know only. Question: Why are you not able to explain what the knowledge is and where the knowledge comes from that you forces not to believe in god?



Surrexit dominus vere. Alleluja. Alleluja. Surrexit Christus. Alleluja. Alleluja.

 

[Hollie]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

You're the one that refers to it as magic.

I've continually stated that 'I observe God and his/her wondrous works every day.'

Do you like the equation?

*****CHUCKLE*****

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

View attachment 69154

Why.....

*****CHUCKLE*****





.....of course!

That's interesting. Are you also hearing "the voices" when you witness the gods?

How many of the gods do you witness on an average day?


Do they appear more or less often when you forget your meds?


*****CHUCKLE*****

You're the one who appears to think there are multiple gods along with seeing and hearing things that aren't there.

The question now is why you are resorting to personal attacks after I've provided you the basic information that you've requested?

The obvious conclusion is because you've decided that you've lost the argument and feel it necessary to be abusive like all good progressive liberal inquisitors.

Will you be adapting the Templar March and Flag to your Holy Scientific Crusade?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Let's be honest. You have only reiterated the same silly slogans about some alleged gods you believe exist.

Where is your General Theory of Supermagical Creation so we can assess your claims to partisan gods?

How are your gods better represented than the Greek gods?

How and when have your gods relegated Amun Ra to a lesser God?


Are you going to march on a crusade or launch your own USMB Inquisition?



*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[sealybobo]

So, for all your screeching about your gods, you still can't provide a comprehensive General Theory of Supermagical Creation.

That's a shame but it's very typical of the screeching done by the various creation ministries. Maybe you're a Harun Yahya devotee'

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

You're the one that refers to it as magic.

I've continually stated that 'I observe God and his/her wondrous works every day.'

Do you like the equation?

*****CHUCKLE*****

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

View attachment 69154

Why.....

*****CHUCKLE*****





.....of course!

That's interesting. Are you also hearing "the voices" when you witness the gods?

How many of the gods do you witness on an average day?


Do they appear more or less often when you forget your meds?


*****CHUCKLE*****

You're the one who appears to think there are multiple gods along with seeing and hearing things that aren't there.

The question now is why you are resorting to personal attacks after I've provided you the basic information that you've requested?

The obvious conclusion is because you've decided that you've lost the argument and feel it necessary to be abusive like all good progressive liberal inquisitors.

Will you be adapting the Templar March and Flag to your Holy Scientific Crusade?

*****CHUCKLE*****

No, just at some point all that's left is to mock. You want us to assume your God exists but haven't even come close to proving it does.

Of course the Jews came up with the "there's only one God" shtick. They cornered the market.. Brilliant.

I would like to see the evidence humans were given when they decided there is only one God. Other than religion logic of course. Can I see the evidence?

 

[sealybobo]

@sealbody: You "know " very exact what your selfdefined enemies are thinking: it's wrong what they are thinking while you are right because you don't believe but you know only. Question: Why are you not able to explain what the knowledge is and where the knowledge comes from that you forces not to believe in god?



Surrexit dominus vere. Alleluja. Alleluja. Surrexit Christus. Alleluja. Alleluja.

Where do I begin. Googl whynogod, read every point and get back to me

 

[Damaged Eagle]

The only one who seems to be screeching here is yourself. If you were really serious about the discussion you wouldn't constantly be trying to vilify what I have to say. However since that appears to be the only way you choose to communicate I'll provide you with an opening premise for this General Theory that you've been screeching for me to provide...

...I know it's not exactly what you might want and I will most likely update it as time goes along but....

What do you think?

On the other hand it's stood the test of time for about a hundred years now.

*****CHUCKLE*****

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

You're the one that refers to it as magic.

I've continually stated that 'I observe God and his/her wondrous works every day.'

Do you like the equation?

*****CHUCKLE*****

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

View attachment 69154

Why.....

*****CHUCKLE*****





.....of course!

That's interesting. Are you also hearing "the voices" when you witness the gods?

How many of the gods do you witness on an average day?


Do they appear more or less often when you forget your meds?


*****CHUCKLE*****

You're the one who appears to think there are multiple gods along with seeing and hearing things that aren't there.

The question now is why you are resorting to personal attacks after I've provided you the basic information that you've requested?

The obvious conclusion is because you've decided that you've lost the argument and feel it necessary to be abusive like all good progressive liberal inquisitors.

Will you be adapting the Templar March and Flag to your Holy Scientific Crusade?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Let's be honest. You have only reiterated the same silly slogans about some alleged gods you believe exist.

I don't believe.

I know.

Where is your General Theory of Supermagical Creation so we can assess your claims to partisan gods?

I provided you a basic premise for God's existence... Wasn't that enough?

How are your gods better represented than the Greek gods?

Perhaps if you were paying attention and willing to discuss the issue you'd know.

How and when have your gods relegated Amun Ra to a lesser God?

How have yours?

Are you going to march on a crusade or launch your own USMB Inquisition?



*****CHUCKLE*****

It would appear that you're already on a crusade of your own.

Unfortunately for you.....

I'm still here.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Hollie]

How does such an equation lead us to "magic" as an answer for anything?

You're the one that refers to it as magic.

I've continually stated that 'I observe God and his/her wondrous works every day.'

Do you like the equation?

*****CHUCKLE*****

And, for which of the gods would the formula apply?

*****CHUCKLE*****

View attachment 69154

Why.....

*****CHUCKLE*****





.....of course!

That's interesting. Are you also hearing "the voices" when you witness the gods?

How many of the gods do you witness on an average day?


Do they appear more or less often when you forget your meds?


*****CHUCKLE*****

You're the one who appears to think there are multiple gods along with seeing and hearing things that aren't there.

The question now is why you are resorting to personal attacks after I've provided you the basic information that you've requested?

The obvious conclusion is because you've decided that you've lost the argument and feel it necessary to be abusive like all good progressive liberal inquisitors.

Will you be adapting the Templar March and Flag to your Holy Scientific Crusade?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Let's be honest. You have only reiterated the same silly slogans about some alleged gods you believe exist.

I don't believe.

I know.

Where is your General Theory of Supermagical Creation so we can assess your claims to partisan gods?

I provided you a basic premise for God's existence... Wasn't that enough?

How are your gods better represented than the Greek gods?

Perhaps if you were paying attention and willing to discuss the issue you'd know.

How and when have your gods relegated Amun Ra to a lesser God?

How have yours?

Are you going to march on a crusade or launch your own USMB Inquisition?



*****CHUCKLE*****

It would appear that you're already on a crusade of your own.

Unfortunately for you.....

I'm still here.

*****CHUCKLE*****

It's a bit disingenuous to claim you offered anything at all as a premise for your gods. Your claim that you witness the gods everyday is nothing more than an emotional need or want. It tells us nothing about the nature of your gods or if you are witnessing some gods other than your partisan gods.



Unfortunately, the religious perspectives have been the prime antecedent of 10,000 years of odd rituals, human and animal sacrifice, deistic moral codes, cathedral building, sectarian strife, chants-Gregorian and otherwise, magic beads, smelly incense, golden icons, prayers of petition, public stoning, plastic effigies on dashboards, blind worship of arbitrarily compiled and dubiously translated books, and lots of guys sporting big funny hats!

None of them make the absolute case of authority -- hence, I select the default position of "the gods to be announced at a future date" until such time as there is a clear defining reason to select Zeus and his unionized gods over yours.