I will not Bow!

[toastman]

Well, at least you finally admit that Palestine wasn't a country in 1948, after runnig around the forum spewing your usual: It was the Zionists who came to take over the country of Palestine"

LOL

An interesting and ironic and comical development...

Implicit admission of 'Nonexistent Status', with regard to statehood.

In light of the context surrounding the remark, it's just as powerful as an explicit admission.

I'd consider bookmarking the post (or your own response, which he can't edit) for future use.

That 'Nonexistent Status' is just Israeli propaganda. You obviously have no clue as to the history of Palestine.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

When the mandate left Palestine it was no longer under guardianship. Therefore, the Palestinians formed a government and declared independence inside its international borders in 1948. It did not encroach on any other territory.

The paleatinians declared independence in 1988

It is YOU who knows nothing about Palestine

 

[P F Tinmore]

An interesting and ironic and comical development...

Implicit admission of 'Nonexistent Status', with regard to statehood.

In light of the context surrounding the remark, it's just as powerful as an explicit admission.

I'd consider bookmarking the post (or your own response, which he can't edit) for future use.

That 'Nonexistent Status' is just Israeli propaganda. You obviously have no clue as to the history of Palestine.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

When the mandate left Palestine it was no longer under guardianship. Therefore, the Palestinians formed a government and declared independence inside its international borders in 1948. It did not encroach on any other territory.

The paleatinians declared independence in 1988

It is YOU who knows nothing about Palestine

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

 

[docmauser1]

We will see no peace in Israel/Palestine until we see some people in jail.

Sitting in jail has become a cool palistanan occupation as it is - Abu Mazen salary, free meals, free higher education, the Red Cross hypocrites at their service, etc., - and no peace so far, so, the point has no merit, of course.

 

[docmauser1]

I see, right wing Zionists would have proffered the US to support Milosevic and the Holocaust murderer Ratko Miladic? You right wingers act like Fascists.

What does this drivel mean?

 

[pbel]

I see, right wing Zionists would have proffered the US to support Milosevic and the Holocaust murderer Ratko Miladic? You right wingers act like Fascists.

What does this drivel mean?

That people who support the expulsion of the Palestinians from their Homelands are Fascists, Mauser.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are something.

That 'Nonexistent Status' is just Israeli propaganda. You obviously have no clue as to the history of Palestine.

When the mandate left Palestine it was no longer under guardianship. Therefore, the Palestinians formed a government and declared independence inside its international borders in 1948. It did not encroach on any other territory.

The paleatinians declared independence in 1988

It is YOU who knows nothing about Palestine

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

(COMMENT)

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel. Even the Arab League understood that it was invalid; and was (one) the main reason the Arab League dissolved that iteration of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) which submitted it for incompetence.

The AHC did not follow the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" set by the General Assembly; and territorially covered territory already declared independent. Thus the nonsensical declaration went unrecognized.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are something.

The paleatinians declared independence in 1988

It is YOU who knows nothing about Palestine

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

(COMMENT)

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel. Even the Arab League understood that it was invalid; and was (one) the main reason the Arab League dissolved that iteration of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) which submitted it for incompetence.

The AHC did not follow the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" set by the General Assembly; and territorially covered territory already declared independent. Thus the nonsensical declaration went unrecognized.

Most Respectfully,
R

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel.

Irrelevant. The Palestinians did not encroach on any territory claimed by Israel.

 

[Mojo2]

THE Islamic Nations see Israel as a new Crusader invasion created by Europeans and Western Support by the compliant American Congress ...

The ordinary person has supported rebellion against any leader or dictators that supported the West...The Arab Spring is a result of this living process...

Israel needs to make its case by signing a peace treaty or time and constant friction will doom her Politically and eventually bankruptcy...Israel needs to spread economic prosperity in the area which will spark Democracies and stability.

Its Israel's choice: prosperity for their enemies and brothers genetically or future exhaustive conflict or acceptance?

The Arabs have used this method of resistance and thus far it has worked.

Muslim anti-Semitism existed long before the the 'birth' of Israel.

As for the opposing claims to Jerusalem consider this (and then go to the link to read the entire article):

Conclusion

Politics, not religious sensibility, has fueled the Muslim attachment to Jerusalem for nearly fourteen centuries; what the historian Bernard Wasserstein has written about the growth of Muslim feeling in the course of the Countercrusade applies through the centuries: "often in the history of Jerusalem, heightened religious fervour may be explained in large part by political necessity."

This pattern has three main implications.

First, Jerusalem will never be more than a secondary city for Muslims; "belief in the sanctity of Jerusalem," Sivan rightly concludes, "cannot be said to have been widely diffused nor deeply rooted in Islam."

Second, the Muslim interest lies not so much in controlling Jerusalem as it does in denying control over the city to anyone else.

Third, the Islamic connection to the city is weaker than the Jewish one because it arises as much from transitory and mundane considerations as from the immutable claims of faith.

The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

Posters like your plead anti-Semitism yet support the expropriation of land from a helpless defenseless population...Israel does not seem to understand the world community that this is against International Law...The last time a land grab in Serbia we bombed it to smithereens...She only hangs on to US Power because of AIPAC Control of Congress...

Only American withdrawal of support will reign her in. We desperately need Campaign fFinance Reform to Remove Money from Politics!

You have swallowed one side's story which appeals to your emotional nature.

But when you look at the facts and the history, the Jews have as much right to be there (as the state of Israel), as any other party.

The Jews have a 5,000 year uninterrupted presence in the disputed area.

How can they be considered interlopers?

If you remove from the argument everyone who is uninformed and then take away the Muslim zealots and then put a sock in the mouths of those who are swayed by the trumped up tear jerking propaganda, you would be able to find a solution to this conflict.

And I say the same thing about posters who weigh in on this issue.

You are arguing without knowing the PERTINENT facts.

Maybe you are a zealot. Maybe you are an anti-Semitic bigot. Maybe you have been swayed by the drama and pathos produced by the Palestinian propaganda machine...their propaganda industry maybe you just stopped researching when you happened upon a narrative that appealed to your sloth or your emotional nature.

In any event, you are mistaken.

Expropriation of land? No, just a recognition of Jewish sovereignty where no Muslim nation existed.

From a helpless defenseless population? No, upon recognition of Israeli statehood FIVE of Israel's Arab/Muslim neighbors declared war against the fledgling state. If they had won there might be no state of Israel today. They lost. And Israel won. But Israel did not deport Arabs. Instead, they gave them the rights of Israeli citizenship. More than the Arabs afford Jews in Arab countries. More than Muslim LAW allows as even a possibility to Jews or any non-Muslims.

International law is exactly what made Israel a state.

Yet, the Arabs/Muslims gave not one shit about International law when it came to recognizing Israel and respecting it's right to exist.

And make no mistake. American influence helps keep Israel from settling this dispute once and for all...THEIR WAY. It's like Israel is a pit bull and America has some control over whether the dog remains under control or is unleashed to do as it will.

Trust me, you don't want America to lose influence over Israel.

Although, I must commend Israel on always adhering to high ideals of humanity in dealing with their hostile, violent Arab/Muslim populations and neighbors.

You may cite exceptions and occasional lapses in following these high ideals, but the standard is good. fair. And they struggle with adhering to it.

What more can you ask?

Israel has a right to exist in peace.

Arabs and Muslims would deny them this.

What else can a responsible, compassionate and strong nation do than what the Israelis do?

If you are objective and fair, you will say, "nothing."

 

[P F Tinmore]

Muslim anti-Semitism existed long before the the 'birth' of Israel.

As for the opposing claims to Jerusalem consider this (and then go to the link to read the entire article):



The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

Posters like your plead anti-Semitism yet support the expropriation of land from a helpless defenseless population...Israel does not seem to understand the world community that this is against International Law...The last time a land grab in Serbia we bombed it to smithereens...She only hangs on to US Power because of AIPAC Control of Congress...

Only American withdrawal of support will reign her in. We desperately need Campaign fFinance Reform to Remove Money from Politics!

You have swallowed one side's story which appeals to your emotional nature.

But when you look at the facts and the history, the Jews have as much right to be there (as the state of Israel), as any other party.

The Jews have a 5,000 year uninterrupted presence in the disputed area.

How can they be considered interlopers?

If you remove from the argument everyone who is uninformed and then take away the Muslim zealots and then put a sock in the mouths of those who are swayed by the trumped up tear jerking propaganda, you would be able to find a solution to this conflict.

And I say the same thing about posters who weigh in on this issue.

You are arguing without knowing the PERTINENT facts.

Maybe you are a zealot. Maybe you are an anti-Semitic bigot. Maybe you have been swayed by the drama and pathos produced by the Palestinian propaganda machine...their propaganda industry maybe you just stopped researching when you happened upon a narrative that appealed to your sloth or your emotional nature.

In any event, you are mistaken.

Expropriation of land? No, just a recognition of Jewish sovereignty where no Muslim nation existed.

From a helpless defenseless population? No, upon recognition of Israeli statehood FIVE of Israel's Arab/Muslim neighbors declared war against the fledgling state. If they had won there might be no state of Israel today. They lost. And Israel won. But Israel did not deport Arabs. Instead, they gave them the rights of Israeli citizenship. More than the Arabs afford Jews in Arab countries. More than Muslim LAW allows as even a possibility to Jews or any non-Muslims.

International law is exactly what made Israel a state.

Yet, the Arabs/Muslims gave not one shit about International law when it came to recognizing Israel and respecting it's right to exist.

And make no mistake. American influence helps keep Israel from settling this dispute once and for all...THEIR WAY. It's like Israel is a pit bull and America has some control over whether the dog remains under control or is unleashed to do as it will.

Trust me, you don't want America to lose influence over Israel.

Although, I must commend Israel on always adhering to high ideals of humanity in dealing with their hostile, violent Arab/Muslim populations and neighbors.

You may cite exceptions and occasional lapses in following these high ideals, but the standard is good. fair. And they struggle with adhering to it.

What more can you ask?

Israel has a right to exist in peace.

Arabs and Muslims would deny them this.

What else can a responsible, compassionate and strong nation do than what the Israelis do?

If you are objective and fair, you will say, "nothing."

It is true that the Jews have as much right as anyone. However, nowhere in any of the post war treaties or the mandate was an exclusive right or Jewish state mentioned.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are something.

The paleatinians declared independence in 1988

It is YOU who knows nothing about Palestine

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

(COMMENT)

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel. Even the Arab League understood that it was invalid; and was (one) the main reason the Arab League dissolved that iteration of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) which submitted it for incompetence.

The AHC did not follow the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" set by the General Assembly; and territorially covered territory already declared independent. Thus the nonsensical declaration went unrecognized.

Most Respectfully,
R

I must disagree. Arafat's declaration in 1988 is well-known. The declaration in late 1948 is little-known. It came too late, no one knew about it, and it wasn't really serious. Anyway, instead of constantly debating the past, one should look at what's happening now. This week Britain, France, Italy and Spain told off their Israeli ambassadors. This anti-Semitism will not help to bring peace at all.

 

[docmauser1]

I see, right wing Zionists would have proffered the US to support Milosevic and the Holocaust murderer Ratko Miladic? You right wingers act like Fascists.

What does this drivel mean?

That people who support the expulsion of the Palestinians from their Homelands are Fascists, Mauser.

"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." said Churchill.
Looks like those major arab settlers expelled themselves from their respective "homelands", of course.

 

[Mojo2]

Posters like your plead anti-Semitism yet support the expropriation of land from a helpless defenseless population...Israel does not seem to understand the world community that this is against International Law...The last time a land grab in Serbia we bombed it to smithereens...She only hangs on to US Power because of AIPAC Control of Congress...

Only American withdrawal of support will reign her in. We desperately need Campaign fFinance Reform to Remove Money from Politics!

You have swallowed one side's story which appeals to your emotional nature.

But when you look at the facts and the history, the Jews have as much right to be there (as the state of Israel), as any other party.

The Jews have a 5,000 year uninterrupted presence in the disputed area.

How can they be considered interlopers?

If you remove from the argument everyone who is uninformed and then take away the Muslim zealots and then put a sock in the mouths of those who are swayed by the trumped up tear jerking propaganda, you would be able to find a solution to this conflict.

And I say the same thing about posters who weigh in on this issue.

You are arguing without knowing the PERTINENT facts.

Maybe you are a zealot. Maybe you are an anti-Semitic bigot. Maybe you have been swayed by the drama and pathos produced by the Palestinian propaganda machine...their propaganda industry maybe you just stopped researching when you happened upon a narrative that appealed to your sloth or your emotional nature.

In any event, you are mistaken.

Expropriation of land? No, just a recognition of Jewish sovereignty where no Muslim nation existed.

From a helpless defenseless population? No, upon recognition of Israeli statehood FIVE of Israel's Arab/Muslim neighbors declared war against the fledgling state. If they had won there might be no state of Israel today. They lost. And Israel won. But Israel did not deport Arabs. Instead, they gave them the rights of Israeli citizenship. More than the Arabs afford Jews in Arab countries. More than Muslim LAW allows as even a possibility to Jews or any non-Muslims.

International law is exactly what made Israel a state.

Yet, the Arabs/Muslims gave not one shit about International law when it came to recognizing Israel and respecting it's right to exist.

And make no mistake. American influence helps keep Israel from settling this dispute once and for all...THEIR WAY. It's like Israel is a pit bull and America has some control over whether the dog remains under control or is unleashed to do as it will.

Trust me, you don't want America to lose influence over Israel.

Although, I must commend Israel on always adhering to high ideals of humanity in dealing with their hostile, violent Arab/Muslim populations and neighbors.

You may cite exceptions and occasional lapses in following these high ideals, but the standard is good. fair. And they struggle with adhering to it.

What more can you ask?

Israel has a right to exist in peace.

Arabs and Muslims would deny them this.

What else can a responsible, compassionate and strong nation do than what the Israelis do?

If you are objective and fair, you will say, "nothing."

It is true that the Jews have as much right as anyone. However, nowhere in any of the post war treaties or the mandate was an exclusive right or Jewish state mentioned.

The exclusive right was granted by God, himself.

Thousands of years before the birth of the Prophet Mohammad.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHqTR94TBIo]Exodus (This Land is Mine with Lyrics) - YouTube[/ame]

And the Prophet Mohammad never even set foot in Jerusalem.

He visited it in a dream.

 

[docmauser1]

P F Tinmore, et al,
You are something. ...

"Good morning" is in order, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are something.

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

(COMMENT)

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel. Even the Arab League understood that it was invalid; and was (one) the main reason the Arab League dissolved that iteration of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) which submitted it for incompetence.

The AHC did not follow the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" set by the General Assembly; and territorially covered territory already declared independent. Thus the nonsensical declaration went unrecognized.

Most Respectfully,
R

I must disagree. Arafat's declaration in 1988 is well-known. The declaration in late 1948 is little-known. It came too late, no one knew about it, and it wasn't really serious. Anyway, instead of constantly debating the past, one should look at what's happening now. This week Britain, France, Italy and Spain told off their Israeli ambassadors. This anti-Semitism will not help to bring peace at all.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

 

[docmauser1]

Irrelevant. The Palestinians did not encroach on any territory claimed by Israel.

True - palistanians didn't exist back then.

 

[toastman]

That 'Nonexistent Status' is just Israeli propaganda. You obviously have no clue as to the history of Palestine.



When the mandate left Palestine it was no longer under guardianship. Therefore, the Palestinians formed a government and declared independence inside its international borders in 1948. It did not encroach on any other territory.

The paleatinians declared independence in 1988

It is YOU who knows nothing about Palestine

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

Are you trying to say the Palestinians didn't declare independence in 1988 ?

Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are something.

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

(COMMENT)

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel. Even the Arab League understood that it was invalid; and was (one) the main reason the Arab League dissolved that iteration of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) which submitted it for incompetence.

The AHC did not follow the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" set by the General Assembly; and territorially covered territory already declared independent. Thus the nonsensical declaration went unrecognized.

Most Respectfully,
R

I must disagree. Arafat's declaration in 1988 is well-known. The declaration in late 1948 is little-known. It came too late, no one knew about it, and it wasn't really serious. Anyway, instead of constantly debating the past, one should look at what's happening now. This week Britain, France, Italy and Spain told off their Israeli ambassadors. This anti-Semitism will not help to bring peace at all.

Rocco knows about the declaration in 1988

It is Tinmore who is full of shit and doesn't know.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are something.

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

(COMMENT)

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel. Even the Arab League understood that it was invalid; and was (one) the main reason the Arab League dissolved that iteration of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) which submitted it for incompetence.

The AHC did not follow the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" set by the General Assembly; and territorially covered territory already declared independent. Thus the nonsensical declaration went unrecognized.

Most Respectfully,
R

The citation you posted, is well known and is equally invalid and unsound. It comes months after the Jewish Agency declared independence of Israel.

Irrelevant. The Palestinians did not encroach on any territory claimed by Israel.

Actually his post is relevant, while yours is more lies.

The so called 1948 DOI was unrecognized, and came too little too late.

Israels DOI came before that, and was RECOGNIZED by the U.N as well was MANY countries.

This is a very simple matter that a monkey could understand.

 

[docmauser1]

ARTICLE 3 The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...

Cool, so, who was that pasha, effendi, shakh, sultan, bei, president, prime-minister of that "state of palestine"?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The paleatinians declared independence in 1988

It is YOU who knows nothing about Palestine

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

Are you trying to say the Palestinians didn't declare independence in 1988 ?

Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Where did I say that?