I will not Bow!

[Phoenall]

There will never be a two state solution. What have the Palestinians done to prove that they can live peacefully next to Israel ?

Honestly Pbel, you might not like to hear this but, as of now, I don't see a solution to the conflict. When the fake peace talks are over, things will continue the way they are.

Yes, I know, BDS will continue as well, but I consider them a minor threat , at best

Toast, you're being short-sighted...Think a hundred or even two hundred years...Israel's neighbors will be modernized Politically and militarily...The Palestinians are the least problem for Israel...Its Al Qaida which is growing not diminishing.

Already the Europeans are clamoring for a two state solution to the 67 borders to force the original ideas of the Mandate...


Only Peace and trade with her neighbors can save the Israeli State in the long-run. And I bet if the question is put to the Israeli electorate they will accept the 67 borders for a real sustainable peace...

If the peace is broken after it is established, all Israel's critics will support her right to defend her-self.

Your post shows your complete ignorance of the conflict, THERE WERE NO 1967 BORDERS. It was a ceasefire line that is not enforceable as a border. The UN spelt it out in res 242 when they said land occupied in 1967, not the land. It also spells out that the borders MUST be negotiated and be mutually recognised. The muslims constantly refuse to negotiate borders

 

[Phoenall]

There will never be a two state solution. What have the Palestinians done to prove that they can live peacefully next to Israel ?

Honestly Pbel, you might not like to hear this but, as of now, I don't see a solution to the conflict. When the fake peace talks are over, things will continue the way they are.

Yes, I know, BDS will continue as well, but I consider them a minor threat , at best

Toast, you're being short-sighted...Think a hundred or even two hundred years...Israel's neighbors will be modernized Politically and militarily...The Palestinians are the least problem for Israel...Its Al Qaida which is growing not diminishing.

Already the Europeans are clamoring for a two state solution to the 67 borders to force the original ideas of the Mandate...


Only Peace and trade with her neighbors can save the Israeli State in the long-run. And I bet if the question is put to the Israeli electorate they will accept the 67 borders for a real sustainable peace...

If the peace is broken after it is established, all Israel's critics will support her right to defend her-self.

Haven't you realised yet that the neighbours of Israel will never change from their 7c ideological violence, they are related to A.Q if you bother to follow the news.

No such thing as 67 borders it is a falsehood spread by the whole of islam to garner sympathy and support. They are ceasefire lines which have no legal standing as borders.

Israel is already at peace with it two biggest neighbours, and it trades with them on a regular basis.

Then why haven't they done so when peace has been broken by the HoAP in the past. AND THERE ARE NO 67 BORDERS READ THE UN RESOLUTIONS.

 

[Phoenall]

pbel, et al,

Well, you have most of it wrong.

I'm sure Rocco can speak for himself...However, although I support a two state solution for the sake of world peace, I can not logically accept the Original Mandate authored by the European Powers dispossessing a people from their homes because of atrocities by others. That simple.

(COMMENT)

The original mandate and the authors never, ever, sanctioned the dispossessing a people from their homes under any extrajudicial standing, cause or situation. You will not find the authority for the taking of any land mentioned anywhere by the Allied Powers, the Mandatory, the Charter or the Partition Plan.

That was an unintended consequence of the outbreak of hostilities between the parties in question.

Most Respectfully,
R

Defending your country is a Noble thing. Creating a Nation from someone else's indigenous homelands is not...

Period.

Claiming to be indigenous so you can steal land is a crime against humanity, and that is what the itinerant muslim farm workers are doing, They have no ties to the land as most arrived in the latter part of the 19c, and then more came at the end of WW2. The truly indigenous are the Jews who can trace habitation and homes in the area going back 3,000 years, the "Palestinians" are lucky if they can trace their roots back 3,000 days

 

[Phoenall]

pbel, et al,

There is a mistake here.

I did not justify or take a stand on the decisions made by the Allied Powers, or the League of Nations/UN. That is, I have not discussed whether the decision was virtuous, sound or valid.

In fact, I have consistently said that neither side has clean hands, and that the Arab Palestinian has some legitimate claims.

Sure the Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years and deserve safety, but what did the Palestinians have to do with it?

Please explain your logic to justify these actions.

(COMMENT)

What I have consistently argued against is:

• The method and approach the Hostile Arab Palestinian and Arab League have adopted as a means of settlement.

• The asymmetric tactics, terrorism, threats, coercion and open conventional conflict launched against, the various parties to the conflict.

• The legal position that the Arab Palestinian exercised some measure of sovereignty over the territory in question and that they were deprived of their right to self-determination.

There is a a grave difference between the cultures, the one from which I hail and those of the Arab Middle East. There is, imbedded in this dispute, a moral imperative and responsibility to preserve cultural heritage of each society in distress; including that of the Jewish People. I do not expect the Arab Palestinian, of the Islamic Persuasion, to even feel the slightest obligation to render help and assistance in that preservation effort. I suspect that the Allied Powers at San Remo had a similar impression of the Arab Palestinian.
I do not think there is anything to be gained by expanding the exchange as to why, or why not, the Arab Palestinian has the morality is has. It is sufficient for me to know that the Arab Palestinian, as a society within the species, is sufficiently different and in opposition to the cause of preservation of a culture in distress; beyond the ability to take the lead in such an effort. Humanity has seen the lack of sense in cultural preservation before in similar Islamic dominated regions. This type of effort requires a much higher order of developmental thinking.

It is now being address on a different plane - a lower order of reactive autonomic response; a position of that adopted by the Palestinian Black Hand in the late 1920s (antagonistic and confrontational). We need not look back and ask why. We need only look at today - and to ask - what can be done to restore peace and preserve the culture?

Most Respectfully,
R

Precisely the problem the Colonial chauvinism of the Europeans over the native Culture and its perceived inferiority as it is today...The real truth is that Arab Culture has long and distinguished roots which is the political glue that binds them...The Radical expression is the growing Jihadist movement. The Arab Spring is a result.

Its Israel's move land or peace.

Your ideal solution will result in the creation of another Islamic state and the genocide of all the Jews living in the M.E. It will also result in a possibly nuclear armed Islamic state run by extremists who would fire the nuclear missiles at the next country they wish to take over. They have no cares for the sanctity of human life and will willingly sacrifice 100 million women and children to destroy Israel.

It is islams move peace or complete destruction

 

[Phoenall]

Everyone is in a quandary about how to end the conflict.

Noura Erakat, professor if international law, says that the solution to the conflict is already laid out in international law.

Why don't we just run with that?

What is this solution, and does it entail the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

Everyone is in a quandary about how to end the conflict.

Noura Erakat, professor if international law, says that the solution to the conflict is already laid out in international law.

Why don't we just run with that?

Why dont you tell us point by point how that wod work out.

I can't WAIT to hear THIS...

Here are her views regarding Israel and what should be done to the Jews

Noura Erakat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And she is not a professor of international law at all she is just a Palestinian-American human rights attorney and activist

 

[Phoenall]

That is true. The mandate was to allow Jewish immigration and assist immigrant Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. It was to set up a government shared by all of the citizens.

The Zionists, however, had a different plan. They wanted to pack Palestine with foreign settlers and take over the country.

Britain bowed to the pressure from the Zionists until the plan blew up in its face causing it to write the 1939 White Paper clarifying its goals. The Palestinian saw this as too little, too late. Britain could not put the toothpaste back in the tube. The Zionists were angry. They saw the White Paper as a backtrack on the terms of the mandate.

Everybody was shooting at each other so Britain decided to jump ship in the middle of the war it created. That war continues today.

There was no country for the Zionists to take over

The TERRITORY did not belong to the Palestinan Arabs, just because they owned land and lived there. So you're argument that the Zionists wanted to take over their country is a bunch of baloney and you know it. Why do you keep repeating this Palestinian lie?

Now all you have to do is convince millions of Palestinians that Palestine is not their country.

Good luck with that.

Why do we need to do that when they are doing it themselves every day.

 

[Phoenall]

There will never be a two state solution.

Thankfully, that's not your decision to make.


Nor is it anyone elses but the Israelis and the muslims, and until the muslims wind their necks in they will lose

What have the Palestinians done to prove that they can live peacefully next to Israel ?

What has Israel done to allow the Pals to live peacefully?

Take the withdrawal from Gaza in August 2005, what did the HoaAP do to prove they could be peaceful after that.

Honestly Pbel, you might not like to hear this but, as of now, I don't see a solution to the conflict. When the fake peace talks are over, things will continue the way they are.

Because that's what Israel wants.

Not Israel that is putting obstacles in the way is it, not Israel demanding pre conditions before even thinking about starting the peace talks. NOT ISREAL MAKING THE CLAIM THAT THEY WILL MASS MURDER ALL THE MUSLIMS .

Yes, I know, BDS will continue as well, but I consider them a minor threat , at best

You consider choosing not to do business with someone a "threat"?

Well the pro terrorist on this board seem to think the boycott of Israeli goods is a threat that cant be ignored

 

[Phoenall]

That is true. The mandate was to allow Jewish immigration and assist immigrant Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. It was to set up a government shared by all of the citizens.

The Zionists, however, had a different plan. They wanted to pack Palestine with foreign settlers and take over the country.

Britain bowed to the pressure from the Zionists until the plan blew up in its face causing it to write the 1939 White Paper clarifying its goals. The Palestinian saw this as too little, too late. Britain could not put the toothpaste back in the tube. The Zionists were angry. They saw the White Paper as a backtrack on the terms of the mandate.

Everybody was shooting at each other so Britain decided to jump ship in the middle of the war it created. That war continues today.

There was no country for the Zionists to take over

The TERRITORY did not belong to the Palestinan Arabs, just because they owned land and lived there. So you're argument that the Zionists wanted to take over their country is a bunch of baloney and you know it. Why do you keep repeating this Palestinian lie?

You have got to be kidding...Just because there was no Nation called Palestine the people who lived in Palestine since 2-3 thousand years have been genetically proven to be the people who call themselves Palestinians today.

The Ottomans and Brits exercised an Occupier's Sovereignty by Arms...They had no deeds to the land...

This no country bit is one of the most insidious lies in this conflict. No one with half a brain buys into this convoluted logic!

Then explain the facts that are easily obtainable that show very few actual filastins originate from Palestine, in fact they are mostly nomadic itinerant farm workers wandering the whole of the M.E looking for work.

No one with any brain disregards the reality that shows the claims are false, and that they UN is to blame for the conflict as it is today.

 

[Billo_Really]

There will never be a two state solution.

Thankfully, that's not your decision to make.


Nor is it anyone elses but the Israelis and the muslims, and until the muslims wind their necks in they will lose


First off, this has nothing to do with muslims. This is a political and judicial issue, not a religious one. Second, eventually, if Israel doesn't decide, that "decision", will be made for them. And third, WTF does "wind their necks" mean?


What has Israel done to allow the Pals to live peacefully?

Take the withdrawal from Gaza in August 2005, what did the HoaAP do to prove they could be peaceful after that.


Israel did not withdraw from Gaza! You actually expect people to be peaceful, when you are constantly shooting at them, while they fish and farm; while you deliberately murder their children; while you shoot out the lamps at the top of their light poles, after they made street improvements; while you violate their air space on a weekly basis; and after you cut out the dead, un-born baby, from the belly of a Palestinian mother you just killed and left the body in the street for all to see? You expect peace after all that? You're lucky I'm not there. If you did that to me, I would **** your country up!


Because that's what Israel wants.

Not Israel that is putting obstacles in the way is it, not Israel demanding pre conditions before even thinking about starting the peace talks. NOT ISREAL MAKING THE CLAIM THAT THEY WILL MASS MURDER ALL THE MUSLIMS .


You don't consider over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints in the West Bank, "obstacles"? You don't consider the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza, an "obstacle"? You don't consider a 47 year occupation of land that isn't yours, an "obstacle"?

Yes, I know, BDS will continue as well, but I consider them a minor threat , at best

You consider choosing not to do business with someone a "threat"?

Well the pro terrorist on this board seem to think the boycott of Israeli goods is a threat that cant be ignored

You consider choosing not to buy your products (made from OPT sweat shops), "terrorism"? You consider people trying to symbolically enforce the law, "terrorists"?

 

[toastman]

That is true. The mandate was to allow Jewish immigration and assist immigrant Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. It was to set up a government shared by all of the citizens.

The Zionists, however, had a different plan. They wanted to pack Palestine with foreign settlers and take over the country.

Britain bowed to the pressure from the Zionists until the plan blew up in its face causing it to write the 1939 White Paper clarifying its goals. The Palestinian saw this as too little, too late. Britain could not put the toothpaste back in the tube. The Zionists were angry. They saw the White Paper as a backtrack on the terms of the mandate.

Everybody was shooting at each other so Britain decided to jump ship in the middle of the war it created. That war continues today.

There was no country for the Zionists to take over

The TERRITORY did not belong to the Palestinan Arabs, just because they owned land and lived there. So you're argument that the Zionists wanted to take over their country is a bunch of baloney and you know it. Why do you keep repeating this Palestinian lie?

You have got to be kidding...Just because there was no Nation called Palestine the people who lived in Palestine since 2-3 thousand years have been genetically proven to be the people who call themselves Palestinians today.

The Ottomans and Brits exercised an Occupier's Sovereignty by Arms...They had no deeds to the land...

This no country bit is one of the most insidious lies in this conflict. No one with half a brain buys into this convoluted logic!

Everything I said was 100% correct.

 

[Phoenall]

Thankfully, that's not your decision to make.


Nor is it anyone elses but the Israelis and the muslims, and until the muslims wind their necks in they will lose


First off, this has nothing to do with muslims. This is a political and judicial issue, not a religious one. Second, eventually, if Israel doesn't decide, that "decision", will be made for them. And third, WTF does "wind their necks" mean?

It has everything to do with islam and the muslims when they are invoking their religion when they MASS MURDER. Who will make that decision and go against the fundamental right of the Israeli's to decide their own path. How would you feel if the UN decided to force the muslims into accepting something they don't want. Simply put it means stop being so aggressive and belligerent and getting in peoples faces.

What has Israel done to allow the Pals to live peacefully?

Take the withdrawal from Gaza in August 2005, what did the HoaAP do to prove they could be peaceful after that.


Israel did not withdraw from Gaza! You actually expect people to be peaceful, when you are constantly shooting at them, while they fish and farm; while you deliberately murder their children; while you shoot out the lamps at the top of their light poles, after they made street improvements; while you violate their air space on a weekly basis; and after you cut out the dead, un-born baby, from the belly of a Palestinian mother you just killed and left the body in the street for all to see? You expect peace after all that? You're lucky I'm not there. If you did that to me, I would **** your country up!
Israel withdrew from gaza completely in August 2005, and even the HoAP agree that is the case. The HoAP increased the rate of attack without any provocation and taunted the Israeli's. All that you spout is just Islamic blood libels with no corroborative evidence available. But then you never let a lie get in the way of your NAZI JEW HATRED AND ANTI SEMITIC LIES do you

Because that's what Israel wants.

Not Israel that is putting obstacles in the way is it, not Israel demanding pre conditions before even thinking about starting the peace talks. NOT ISREAL MAKING THE CLAIM THAT THEY WILL MASS MURDER ALL THE MUSLIMS .


You don't consider over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints in the West Bank, "obstacles"? You don't consider the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza, an "obstacle"? You don't consider a 47 year occupation of land that isn't yours, an "obstacle"?

No as they are security measures to stop terrorist attacks on innocent Israeli civilians, but you don't see that do you all you see is JOOOOOOS. The blockade is there to stop gun running and has saved the lives if thousands of innocent people. The HoAP would rather spend $1 million on building a tunnel so they could murder one Israeli child than spend $1 on providing a meal for a starving child in gaza. No occupation at all if you look at the facts, the land was given back to its rightful owners and refused, Israel was told to do what they wanted as Egypt and Jordan no longer wanted the bother of HoAP terrorism.

You consider choosing not to do business with someone a "threat"?

Well the pro terrorist on this board seem to think the boycott of Israeli goods is a threat that cant be ignored

You consider choosing not to buy your products (made from OPT sweat shops), "terrorism"? You consider people trying to symbolically enforce the law, "terrorists"?

Would you rather buy your goods from a Chinese neo Marxist sweat shop, or a Pakistani muslim sweat shop. Then complain when they don't last a month. For the record what Israeli goods are made in a sweat shop, now this should be entertaining as you scour the internet for muslim blood libels

You can always tell when a pro terrorist is losing they resort to abusive profanity and outright lies.

 

[pbel]

There was no country for the Zionists to take over

The TERRITORY did not belong to the Palestinan Arabs, just because they owned land and lived there. So you're argument that the Zionists wanted to take over their country is a bunch of baloney and you know it. Why do you keep repeating this Palestinian lie?

You have got to be kidding...Just because there was no Nation called Palestine the people who lived in Palestine since 2-3 thousand years have been genetically proven to be the people who call themselves Palestinians today.

The Ottomans and Brits exercised an Occupier's Sovereignty by Arms...They had no deeds to the land...

This no country bit is one of the most insidious lies in this conflict. No one with half a brain buys into this convoluted logic!

Everything I said was 100% correct.

Link your so-called truths to a neutral source.

 

[toastman]

You have got to be kidding...Just because there was no Nation called Palestine the people who lived in Palestine since 2-3 thousand years have been genetically proven to be the people who call themselves Palestinians today.

The Ottomans and Brits exercised an Occupier's Sovereignty by Arms...They had no deeds to the land...

This no country bit is one of the most insidious lies in this conflict. No one with half a brain buys into this convoluted logic!

Everything I said was 100% correct.

Link your so-called truths to a neutral source.

You need a link to show that 'Palestine' was a territory and not a country in 1948 where the 'Palestinian' Arabs had no sovereignty?

 

[pbel]

Everything I said was 100% correct.

Link your so-called truths to a neutral source.

You need a link to show that 'Palestine' was a territory and not a country in 1948 where the 'Palestinian' Arabs had no sovereignty?

the usual deflection and run-around that no one on planet Earth accepts.

 

[toastman]

Link your so-called truths to a neutral source.

You need a link to show that 'Palestine' was a territory and not a country in 1948 where the 'Palestinian' Arabs had no sovereignty?

the usual deflection and run-around that no one on planet Earth accepts.

Thanks for proving me wrong...oh wait, you didn't lol

My comment was a response to Tinmores bullshit repetitive claim that Zionists came to take over their country.

Ask him what country, and you won't get a straight answer.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

No they were not as Palestine could not have any borders, what you are falling foul of is the borders of other countries set in stone are not the same thing as the borders of the area they surround.

Could you prove that statement like a link or something?

He cant because he just thunk it up

 

[toastman]

No they were not as Palestine could not have any borders, what you are falling foul of is the borders of other countries set in stone are not the same thing as the borders of the area they surround.

Could you prove that statement like a link or something?

He cant because he just thunk it up

You just described how Tinmore posts

 

[pbel]

Everything I said was 100% correct.

Link your so-called truths to a neutral source.

You need a link to show that 'Palestine' was a territory and not a country in 1948 where the 'Palestinian' Arabs had no sovereignty?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

Late Ottoman and British Mandate periods

In the middle of the 1st century of the Ottoman rule, i.e. 1550 AD, Bernard Lewis in a study of Ottoman registers of the early Ottoman Rule of Palestine reports:[58]


From the mass of detail in the registers, it is possible to extract something like a general picture of the economic life of the country in that period. Out of a total population of about 300,000 souls, between a fifth and a quarter lived in the six towns of Jerusalem, Gaza, Safed, Nablus, Ramle, and Hebron. The remainder consisted mainly of peasants, living in villages of varying size, and engaged in agriculture. Their main food-crops were wheat and barley in that order, supplemented by leguminous pulses, olives, fruit, and vegetables. In and around most of the towns there was a considerable number of vineyards, orchards, and vegetable gardens.

According to Alexander Scholch, the population of Palestine in 1850 was about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews[59]

 

[pbel]

Country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A country is a region legally identified as a distinct entity in political geography. A country may be an independent sovereign state or one that is occupied by another state, as a non-sovereign or formerly sovereign political division, or a geographic region associated with sets of previously independent or differently associated peoples with distinct political characteristics