I will not Bow!

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

That is a very tall order, but I'll try.

What role did the UNPC play in the creation of Israel? What procedures laid down in resolution 181 did they follow? What land was allocated for Israel?

Do you have some documentation on what had transpired?

(COMMENT & REFERENCES)

The Record: There are 76 Agenda and 76 Summaries or 152 records in all.

E. DAILY AGENDA OF THE UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION A/AC.21/Agenda/

F. SUMMARY RECORDS OF THE UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION
A/AC.21/SR./​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.

On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

So your post was based on false premise.

How does that prove that the Mandate was NOT handed to the UNPC ???

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, these are my words, and not a direct quote:

...as the conflict caused the Resolution 181(II) boundaries to devolve under the pressure of armed conflict.

Who said that and what does it mean?

(OBSERVATION)

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.

The fighting was halted after several weeks, under a four-week truce called for by the Security Council on 29 May 1948. The truce went into effect on 11 June and was supervised by the United Nations Mediator with the assistance of a group of international military observers, which came to be known as the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO). Despite the efforts of the Mediator, no agreement could be reached on an extension of the truce, and fighting broke out again on 8 July.

On 15 July 1948, the Security Council decided in a resolution that the situation in Palestine constituted a threat to the peace. It ordered a ceasefire and declared that failure to comply would be construed as a breach of the peace requiring immediate consideration of enforcement measures under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter. In accordance with the resolution, a second truce came into force. By that time, Israel controlled much of the territory allotted to the Arab State by the partition resolution, including the western part of Jerusalem. Egypt and Jordan respectively controlled the remaining portions of the Gaza district and the West Bank of the Jordan River (which included East Jerusalem, with its walled Old City). More fighting took place in October 1948 and March 1949, during which Israel took over other areas, some of which had been allotted to the Arab State. In 1950, Jordan brought the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, formally under its jurisdiction pending a solution to the problem.

SOURCE: The Question of Palestine and the United Nations

Most Respectfully,
R

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities.

That is not true.

Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence.

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, these are my words, and not a direct quote:

Who said that and what does it mean?

(OBSERVATION)



Most Respectfully,
R

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities.

That is not true.

Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence.

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

Where's your link to prove that lie??

Are you saying Israel didn't declare independence ?

"Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence."

WTF does this lie have to do with what he said ?????????

The next time I tell you that you never provide links for your claims and you ask me specifically what claims...well, now you know why

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, these are my words, and not a direct quote:


(OBSERVATION)



Most Respectfully,
R

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities.

That is not true.

Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence.

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

Where's your link to prove that lie??

Are you saying Israel didn't declare independence ?

"Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence."

WTF does this lie have to do with what he said ?????????

The next time I tell you that you never provide links for your claims and you ask me specifically what claims...well, now you know why

Take Jaffa, for example. Jaffa was designated to be part of the Arab state. Israel had jaffa under military control before they claimed independence.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

That is a very tall order, but I'll try.


(COMMENT & REFERENCES)

The Record: There are 76 Agenda and 76 Summaries or 152 records in all.

E. DAILY AGENDA OF THE UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION A/AC.21/Agenda/

F. SUMMARY RECORDS OF THE UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION
A/AC.21/SR./​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.

On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

So your post was based on false premise.

How does that prove that the Mandate was NOT handed to the UNPC ???

He is obfuscating because he has not read the links provided, he want the links posting in their entirety so that he can cherrypick the bits he wants. He cant string a timeline together and see that when Britain relinquished the mandate the UN took up the mantle and passed it on to an arm of the UN that oversaw the process. When the process broke down as it did then the UN empowered another arm to take over, and then later still yet another arm. BUT they were all just arms of the UN who had full control, something he cant think through. he thinks that the UN is a different body to the UNPC when the UNPC is subservient to the UN. It is akin to a corporate structure with a CEO at the top and his appointed officers cascading down underneath, they all still work for the same company.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, these are my words, and not a direct quote:

Who said that and what does it mean?

(OBSERVATION)



Most Respectfully,
R

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities.

That is not true.

Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence.

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

Evidence and proof from an unbiased and trustworthy source is required to back up your allegations of ethnic cleansing and disregard for 181.

 

[Phoenall]

That is not true.

Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence.

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

Where's your link to prove that lie??

Are you saying Israel didn't declare independence ?

"Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence."

WTF does this lie have to do with what he said ?????????

The next time I tell you that you never provide links for your claims and you ask me specifically what claims...well, now you know why

Take Jaffa, for example. Jaffa was designated to be part of the Arab state. Israel had jaffa under military control before they claimed independence.

A map from wiki is not proof or evidence of your allegations, so put up or shut up

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where's your link to prove that lie??

Are you saying Israel didn't declare independence ?

"Israel had already cleansed Palestinians from there homes in areas designated to be part of the Arab state and Jerusalem before they declared independence."

WTF does this lie have to do with what he said ?????????

The next time I tell you that you never provide links for your claims and you ask me specifically what claims...well, now you know why

Take Jaffa, for example. Jaffa was designated to be part of the Arab state. Israel had jaffa under military control before they claimed independence.

A map from wiki is not proof or evidence of your allegations, so put up or shut up

In 1947, the UN Special Commission on Palestine recommended that Jaffa be included in the planned Jewish state. Due to the large Arab majority, however, it was instead designated as part of the Arab state in the 1947 UN Partition Plan.[24]

Jaffa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At 4 A.M. on April 25, 1948, almost three weeks before the termination of the British mandate over Palestine, Jaffa was subjected to an intensifying barrage of concentrated mortar bombing from Tel Aviv, Bat Yam and Agro-Bank. I twice risked my life and that of my family by attempting to escape in my car with my pregnant wife and 2-year-old daughter. Halfway out of the city, I had to turn back and return to the center of town.

In the afternoon a group of us called the district commissioner to ask if the British administration had decided to abandon the city. The district commissioner denied that, and at his request the Army dispatched three tanks at about 5 P.M., which rolled through the main streets of Jaffa. However, panic was so intense and irreversible that almost 90 percent of Jaffa's population of 80,000 escaped in the next 24 hours.

The Panic That Gripped Jaffa in April 1948 - NYTimes.com

Don't grump at me. You are the one who doesn't know anything about this conflict.

BTW, check out Palestine's international boundaries on that map.

 

[Phoenall]

Take Jaffa, for example. Jaffa was designated to be part of the Arab state. Israel had jaffa under military control before they claimed independence.

A map from wiki is not proof or evidence of your allegations, so put up or shut up

In 1947, the UN Special Commission on Palestine recommended that Jaffa be included in the planned Jewish state. Due to the large Arab majority, however, it was instead designated as part of the Arab state in the 1947 UN Partition Plan.[24]

Jaffa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At 4 A.M. on April 25, 1948, almost three weeks before the termination of the British mandate over Palestine, Jaffa was subjected to an intensifying barrage of concentrated mortar bombing from Tel Aviv, Bat Yam and Agro-Bank. I twice risked my life and that of my family by attempting to escape in my car with my pregnant wife and 2-year-old daughter. Halfway out of the city, I had to turn back and return to the center of town.

In the afternoon a group of us called the district commissioner to ask if the British administration had decided to abandon the city. The district commissioner denied that, and at his request the Army dispatched three tanks at about 5 P.M., which rolled through the main streets of Jaffa. However, panic was so intense and irreversible that almost 90 percent of Jaffa's population of 80,000 escaped in the next 24 hours.

The Panic That Gripped Jaffa in April 1948 - NYTimes.com

Don't grump at me. You are the one who doesn't know anything about this conflict.

BTW, check out Palestine's international boundaries on that map.

I cant see any International borders of Palestine on that map, no legend saying this lines in this colour are the legally recognised international borders of Palestine. What I see is the 1947 partition plan that is based on demographics and not common sense and the international borders of Egypt, trans Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.

Still waiting for a map that states these are the international borders of the sovereign nation of Palestine, as opposed to the area known as Palestine that has no defined borders.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.

On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

So your post was based on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.

2. The administration of Palestine shall, as the mandatory Power withdraws its armed forces, be progressively turned over to the Commission; which shall act in conformity with the recommendations of the General Assembly, under the guidance of the Security Council. The mandatory Power shall to the fullest possible extent co-ordinate its plans for withdrawal with the plans of the Commission to take over and administer areas which have been evacuated.

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.

The Mandate of the Commission was, therefore, firm and clear. The Commission was to take all necessary measures leading to the establishment in Palestine, not later than 1 October 1948, of an independent Arab State and an independent Jewish State.

The General Assembly Resolution under which the Commission was to act promised the full authority of the United Nations in the discharge of the responsibilities.

The Commission was entitled to be confident that in the event it should prove necessary, the Security Council would assume its full measure of responsibility in the implementation of the Assembly’s resolution. The Commission had the right to assume, as he assumed, that in such a situation the Security Council would not fail to exercise, to the fullest and without exception, every necessary power entrusted to it by the Charter in order to assist the Commission in fulfilling its mission.

SOURCE: A/AC.21/SR.1 9 January 1948

After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).

"After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.

On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

So your post was based on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.



In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.



After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).



Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.

Most Respectfully,
R

For its part, the mainstream Zionist leadership under Ben-Gurion publicly welcomed the plan, as it constituted international legal recognition for a Jewish state in Palestine, while having no intention of being bound by its proposed borders. As Ben-Gurion put it, the borders of the new Jewish state, "will be determined by force and not by the partition resolution." (Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, p. 37)

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.

On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

So your post was based on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.



In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.



After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).



Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:

Israel never claimed or recognized the resolution 181 proposed borders.

I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.

Most Respectfully,
R

I know what the UNPC was supposed to do, but that was not my question.

What did it do?

 

[toastman]

Timmore, it is 2014 and Jaffa is inside the green line. I inderstand what you're saying, but in the end it changes nothing. You can thank the hostility of the Arabs and Palestinian Arabs.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It did the transition for the Jewish Agency of Food Programs, Banking and Postal Systems, Consular - Immigration - Passport and Border Systems, Monetary and Economic systems, and all the other necessary coordination to move the Provisional Council of Government for the Jewish State to an Permanent Government. That is what the 76 different reports cover that I linked to you.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.

So your post was based on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.

In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.

After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).

Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:

I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.

Most Respectfully,
R

I know what the UNPC was supposed to do, but that was not my question.

What did it do?

(COMMENT)

But most importantly, the Commission documented the external interference of the Arab League in the fulfillment of it Mandate.

I don't know what you expect me to say in a few short paragraphs here, that covers all the various facets of the Implementation process of the Commission and the various hurdles and challenges they faced. You have to read the reports yourself.

If you have a specific question, I might be able to address it. But it is unreasonable to expect me to condense six months work over the Steps Preparatory to Independence of Israel on this forum beyond what I linked to you and which you ultimately call everything documented a "lie."

For me to be able to answer, you must be specific beyond asking for the entire summation of the events and the associated coordination or events that occurred.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It did the transition for the Jewish Agency of Food Programs, Banking and Postal Systems, Consular - Immigration - Passport and Border Systems, Monetary and Economic systems, and all the other necessary coordination to move the Provisional Council of Government for the Jewish State to an Permanent Government. That is what the 76 different reports cover that I linked to you.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.


(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.

In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.

After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).

Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:

I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel



Most Respectfully,
R

I know what the UNPC was supposed to do, but that was not my question.

What did it do?

(COMMENT)

But most importantly, the Commission documented the external interference of the Arab League in the fulfillment of it Mandate.

I don't know what you expect me to say in a few short paragraphs here, that covers all the various facets of the Implementation process of the Commission and the various hurdles and challenges they faced. You have to read the reports yourself.

If you have a specific question, I might be able to address it. But it is unreasonable to expect me to condense six months work over the Steps Preparatory to Independence of Israel on this forum beyond what I linked to you and which you ultimately call everything documented a "lie."

For me to be able to answer, you must be specific beyond asking for the entire summation of the events and the associated coordination or events that occurred.

Most Respectfully,
R

Well, one question is about the transfer of land to Israel.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Timmore, it is 2014 and Jaffa is inside the green line. I inderstand what you're saying, but in the end it changes nothing. You can thank the hostility of the Arabs and Palestinian Arabs.

Jaffa was where the Prophet Jonah sailed out from. Every inch of Israel is filled with Jewish history.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think I necessarily agree with this.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.

So your post was based on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.

In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.

After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).

Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:

I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.

Most Respectfully,
R

For its part, the mainstream Zionist leadership under Ben-Gurion publicly welcomed the plan, as it constituted international legal recognition for a Jewish state in Palestine, while having no intention of being bound by its proposed borders. As Ben-Gurion put it, the borders of the new Jewish state, "will be determined by force and not by the partition resolution." (Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, p. 37)

(COMMENT)

Just as there are various Arab Palestinian factions that have diverse opinions, so it is with the Jewish Community within Israel.

David Ben-Gurion did not accept the total strategy of the Partition Plan; that is obvious. But as a higher level official, he new he had to sacrifice much of what he personally believed to achieve the first steps towards attaining a Jewish National Home through the process of statehood. And so he had to compromise. But, conversely, he totally understood what Isa Nakhleh (Representative of the Arab Higher Committee) was saying in his 6 February 1948 Letter to the Secretary-General; which implied that if Israel were to become independent and sovereign THEN --->:

In its statement to the Ad Hoc Committee on the 29th of September, our Delegation left no doubt on the Arab reactions: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal, any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status. They will oppose such schemes, with the same zeal and with the same sacrifice that any other people would do under the same circumstances. We are alive to the fact that if they so desire, big powers could crush, by brute force, such opposition. But this realisation will not deter us from drenching the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood in the lawful defense of all and every inch of it.”

SOURCE: A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948

It is important to note that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) were the ones that conveyed the idea of "use of force" and "all means necessary" to David Ben-Gurion even before the Resolution 181(II) was passed (September 1947); not the other way around. David Ben-Gurion, YES, clearly understood that the new Jewish state, "will be determined by force and not by the partition resolution" because that is what the HoAP told him and the Secretary-General. The HoAP were going to start a fight. (And they did just that! Not just once, but several times and they haven't stopped yet.)

Ilan Pappé's book is true to an extent, but holds a pro-Palestinian (anti-Israel Government) flavor that most of us who have been to college know and recognize. I encourage everyone to read it, but with a grain of salt.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.

Of course that does not answer my questions.

You stated that the mandate was handed to the UNPC. According to your link that is not true.



So your post was based on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.



In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.



After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).



Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:



I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel

STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.

Most Respectfully,
R

For its part, the mainstream Zionist leadership under Ben-Gurion publicly welcomed the plan, as it constituted international legal recognition for a Jewish state in Palestine, while having no intention of being bound by its proposed borders. As Ben-Gurion put it, the borders of the new Jewish state, "will be determined by force and not by the partition resolution." (Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, p. 37)

And which side has repeatedly tried to wrest control of all the land, starting in 1948 when it was soundly beaten by a rag tag army of farmers and shopkeepers.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It did the transition for the Jewish Agency of Food Programs, Banking and Postal Systems, Consular - Immigration - Passport and Border Systems, Monetary and Economic systems, and all the other necessary coordination to move the Provisional Council of Government for the Jewish State to an Permanent Government. That is what the 76 different reports cover that I linked to you.

I know what the UNPC was supposed to do, but that was not my question.

What did it do?

(COMMENT)

But most importantly, the Commission documented the external interference of the Arab League in the fulfillment of it Mandate.

I don't know what you expect me to say in a few short paragraphs here, that covers all the various facets of the Implementation process of the Commission and the various hurdles and challenges they faced. You have to read the reports yourself.

If you have a specific question, I might be able to address it. But it is unreasonable to expect me to condense six months work over the Steps Preparatory to Independence of Israel on this forum beyond what I linked to you and which you ultimately call everything documented a "lie."

For me to be able to answer, you must be specific beyond asking for the entire summation of the events and the associated coordination or events that occurred.

Most Respectfully,
R

Well, one question is about the transfer of land to Israel.

Don't forget it also dealt with the transfer of land to muslims, land that in reality they had no rights to.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think I necessarily agree with this.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let me try this again, now that I have your specific objection.

You are having a problem with the timeline and the mission.


(COMMENT)

Pertaining to the Mandate Authority hand-off (Successor Government of Palestine).

First, as part of the Plan, the UN envisioned a gradual hand-off from the Mandatory (UK), to the UN Palestine Commission.

In January 1948, the UN Palestine Commission is fully assembled with its authority and mandate.

After all the turf battles and political end-fighting, in February 1948 the Mandatory (UK) announces the successor government as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).

Concerning the April 17 decision: The "Truce Commission" had its mission mandate, which was not entirely the same as that of the Palestine Commission. Don't confuse the two. One was to establish peace after the outbreak of hostilities, the other is to establish a Arab and Jewish State.

With regard to the claim that:

I've never seen anything to support that. I have seen evidence to the exact opposite. One needs only read the Declaration of Independence for the State of Israel



Most Respectfully,
R

For its part, the mainstream Zionist leadership under Ben-Gurion publicly welcomed the plan, as it constituted international legal recognition for a Jewish state in Palestine, while having no intention of being bound by its proposed borders. As Ben-Gurion put it, the borders of the new Jewish state, "will be determined by force and not by the partition resolution." (Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, p. 37)

(COMMENT)

Just as there are various Arab Palestinian factions that have diverse opinions, so it is with the Jewish Community within Israel.

David Ben-Gurion did not accept the total strategy of the Partition Plan; that is obvious. But as a higher level official, he new he had to sacrifice much of what he personally believed to achieve the first steps towards attaining a Jewish National Home through the process of statehood. And so he had to compromise. But, conversely, he totally understood what Isa Nakhleh (Representative of the Arab Higher Committee) was saying in his 6 February 1948 Letter to the Secretary-General; which implied that if Israel were to become independent and sovereign THEN --->:

In its statement to the Ad Hoc Committee on the 29th of September, our Delegation left no doubt on the Arab reactions: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal, any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status. They will oppose such schemes, with the same zeal and with the same sacrifice that any other people would do under the same circumstances. We are alive to the fact that if they so desire, big powers could crush, by brute force, such opposition. But this realisation will not deter us from drenching the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood in the lawful defense of all and every inch of it.”

SOURCE: A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948

It is important to note that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) were the ones that conveyed the idea of "use of force" and "all means necessary" to David Ben-Gurion even before the Resolution 181(II) was passed (September 1947); not the other way around. David Ben-Gurion, YES, clearly understood that the new Jewish state, "will be determined by force and not by the partition resolution" because that is what the HoAP told him and the Secretary-General. The HoAP were going to start a fight. (And they did just that! Not just once, but several times and they haven't stopped yet.)

Ilan Pappé's book is true to an extent, but holds a pro-Palestinian (anti-Israel Government) flavor that most of us who have been to college know and recognize. I encourage everyone to read it, but with a grain of salt.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why do you constantly call Palestinian self defense hostile.

It sounds like you are trying to sell something.