I was wrong.

[AzogtheDefiler]

You did

Nope. Just because you said it, doesn’t make it so. Case in point. You debate in bad faith

 

[Slade3200]

Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr. will be part of this team to help him choose his cabinet.

But but but Fascist. Are they fascists too?

Tulsi and RFK joining has zero to do with the fact that Trump is a fascist. Thats just who he is an how he leads. Tulsi and RFK are in it for power and control which Trump will give them to a degree.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You did. You just don't care because he is progressing an agenda you agree with

No we didn’t. The marked jumped 1500 pts. That’s not Fascism. Mask and vaccine mandates were Fascist. Trump is for none of that.

 

[Slade3200]

Nope. Just because you said it, doesn’t make it so. Case in point. You debate in bad faith

My argument isn't just based on what I say. I specifically cited Trumps Chief of staff, a 4 star general who read the definition of fascist from the dictionary and attributed those traits to Trump. Why are you ignoring that and lying about me making points just based on what I say?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I do not. I think Ben is a very sharp guy. You on the other hand are more driven by emotion than intellect.

Well since it’s an opinion site. I think you are ignorant and stupid and don’t know what Fascism is. Ben a Jew. I a Jew, we would never vote for a Fascist. Neither would Tulsi Gabbard or RFK jr or Elon Musk or Megyn Kelly. Cope. The real Fascist is you. Herr Slade.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

My argument isn't just based on what I say. I specifically cited Trumps Chief of staff, a 4 star general who read the definition of fascist from the dictionary and attributed those traits to Trump. Why are you ignoring that and lying about me making points just based on what I say?

A disgruntled former employee. So should we always cite disgruntled former employees when discussing companies and govt agencies, Herr Slade? Nope.

You lost another debate.

 

[Slade3200]

The marked jumped 1500 pts. That’s not Fascism

The market moving has nothing to do with proving trump a fascist or not. I think you are getting Fascism confused with Communism/Socialism. Look it up.

Fascism and communism are distinct ideologies, both historically and in terms of core principles, despite some superficial similarities. They are often considered opposites because of their differing views on power, economic organization, and individual rights, but both can lead to authoritarian systems.

Trump doesn't hit every aspect of a fascist leader but he hits the vast majority of traits and aligns with more of it than any other ideology I've seen. Populism would be right up there with it... fascist populist would be pretty accurate

 

[Slade3200]

Former disgruntled Chief of Staff. Oh no. So one persons opinion overrides that of me and Ben. Try harder. Cope.

uhh, yes, I trust a 4 star general who served for 2 years as chief of staff over you or Ben Shapiro.

 

[Slade3200]

A disgruntled former employee. So should we always cite disgruntled former employees when discussing companies and govt agencies, Herr Slade? Nope.

You lost another debate.

Sure it would make for a stronger argument if you cite people who back up your argument. Doesn't make it truth but it adds weight to what you're trying to say. Remember a few posts ago you ignored that I was doing this and dishonestly made it seem that I was basing my argument on just things that I'm claiming. Shame shame, you make yourself a hypocrite when you're critical on how I debate when you do crap like that.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

The market moving has nothing to do with proving trump a fascist or not. I think you are getting Fascism confused with Communism/Socialism. Look it up.

Fascism and communism are distinct ideologies, both historically and in terms of core principles, despite some superficial similarities. They are often considered opposites because of their differing views on power, economic organization, and individual rights, but both can lead to authoritarian systems.

Trump doesn't hit every aspect of a fascist leader but he hits the vast majority of traits and aligns with more of it than any other ideology I've seen. Populism would be right up there with it... fascist populist would be pretty accurate

Fascists aren’t fond of capitalism while Trump, Ben and I certainly are.

Fascists have commonly sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism and relegate it to the state. However, fascism does support private property rights and the existence of a market economy and very wealthy individuals

That’s not Trump, that’s not Ben, that’s certainly not what I believe. You lost again, Herr Slade. We all believe in small Govt and lower regulations. As does Trump.

 

[Slade3200]

Well since it’s an opinion site. I think you are ignorant and stupid and don’t know what Fascism is. Ben a Jew. I a Jew, we would never vote for a Fascist. Neither would Tulsi Gabbard or RFK jr or Elon Musk or Megyn Kelly. Cope. The real Fascist is you. Herr Slade.

See that's your emotion coming out. Those people did vote for a fascist because the fascist was supporting an agenda they agreed with. If Trumps fascist tactics was used to promote Dem policies you all would be screaming your heads off... It would be commie and fascist and nazi calls all over the place and you know it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Sure it would make for a stronger argument if you cite people who back up your argument. Doesn't make it truth but it adds weight to what you're trying to say. Remember a few posts ago you ignored that I was doing this and dishonestly made it seem that I was basing my argument on just things that I'm claiming. Shame shame, you make yourself a hypocrite when you're critical on how I debate when you do crap like that.

I did. Look at his coalition. It went across party lines, genders, races, ideologies. It was a true alliance and it led to a notable victory in both the EC and the total vote.

Having a strong personality doesn’t make one a Fascist, Herr Slade. Ben is smarter than you and so am I. Take the L.

 

[Slade3200]

Fascists aren’t fond of capitalism while Trump, Ben and I certainly are.

See you display right there that you don't understand what Fascism is...

a fascist leader can operate within a capitalist economy, and in fact, historically, fascist regimes often did so. Unlike communism, which seeks to abolish private property and establish collective ownership of resources, fascism does not reject private ownership or capitalism. Instead, it incorporates a controlled or "state-directed" form of capitalism, where private businesses and industry are allowed to exist and profit but are subordinated to the goals of the state.

How Fascism and Capitalism Can Coexist​

1. State Control over Industry: Fascist leaders typically allow private businesses to function but impose strict controls and regulations to align economic activity with state objectives. Businesses are expected to prioritize the interests of the nation and state, and industries that are strategically important—such as military production, transportation, and media—often come under direct state influence or control.
2. Corporatism: Fascist regimes often adopt a corporatist economic system, which organizes the economy by sectors (e.g., agriculture, manufacturing, transportation) and creates corporations or associations for each sector. The government then mediates between workers, managers, and owners to coordinate production and labor practices. This allows private ownership to persist but under significant state influence, with each sector working toward the state's goals.
3. Alliance with Business Leaders: Fascist governments often form alliances with business leaders, particularly those in industries critical to the state’s goals, like arms manufacturing or heavy industry. In countries like Italy under Mussolini and Germany under Hitler, industrialists supported the fascist government in exchange for favorable treatment, contracts, and a suppression of socialist or labor movements that might threaten their businesses.
4. Suppression of Labor Unions and Worker Rights: To ensure that businesses operate smoothly and support the regime’s goals, fascist leaders tend to suppress independent labor unions and control worker movements. They establish state-run labor organizations that appear to represent workers’ interests but are, in reality, geared toward promoting productivity and compliance with the government.
5. Nationalistic Economic Policies: Fascist leaders often adopt policies to make their nations economically self-sufficient, or "autarkic." This might involve incentivizing domestic production, discouraging imports, or promoting products made within the country. Such policies don’t dismantle capitalism but instead direct it to serve nationalistic purposes.

Examples of Fascist Leaders in Capitalistic Economies​

1. Italy under Mussolini: Mussolini’s Italy maintained a capitalist economy but promoted corporatism, where the economy was organized around different sectors represented by state-approved corporations. These corporations were regulated by the state, and individual rights to profit and private property remained intact, provided they didn’t conflict with national goals.
2. Germany under Hitler: Nazi Germany also maintained a capitalist structure, with private businesses like Krupp and IG Farben collaborating closely with the regime. The state’s focus was on maximizing industrial output, particularly in military production, and achieving autarky (self-sufficiency). Businesses thrived as long as they served Nazi aims, particularly the war effort and nationalist expansion.
3. Spain under Franco: Francisco Franco’s Spain initially aligned with fascist principles and worked with existing capitalist institutions. Although the regime initially leaned toward a more state-controlled economy, Spain eventually transitioned toward a more market-driven economy while Franco retained authoritarian control.

Why Capitalism is Compatible with Fascism​

Fascism views economic activity primarily as a means to strengthen the state rather than as a path to individual freedom or class equality. Therefore:

• Profit is acceptable as long as it serves the state’s interests and reinforces nationalistic goals.
• Economic hierarchy is tolerated or even encouraged, as fascism does not aim for social or economic equality.
• Control, not ownership, is key: Fascist leaders focus on directing and controlling industries rather than owning them outright. This allows private entities to operate under the watchful eye of the state, ensuring loyalty to national goals.

In essence, fascist regimes can work within a capitalist framework by reshaping it to serve authoritarian and nationalist objectives, rather than dismantling it as communism seeks to do. This alignment makes fascism and capitalism historically compatible, especially in contexts where economic output and national strength are prioritized over democratic freedoms or individual autonomy.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

See that's your emotion coming out. Those people did vote for a fascist because the fascist was supporting an agenda they agreed with. If Trumps fascist tactics was used to promote Dem policies you all would be screaming your heads off... It would be commie and fascist and nazi calls all over the place and you know it.

They would never vote for Fascism. Your opinion isn’t a fact. You cite one source. A disgruntled former employee. If Trump supported DEI, vaccine mandates, defund the police, end the filibuster and open borders. I surely would not vote for him. Dont say “you know it”. Thats bad faith debating, Herr Lesh. My positions never changed.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

See you display right there that you don't understand what Fascism is...

a fascist leader can operate within a capitalist economy, and in fact, historically, fascist regimes often did so. Unlike communism, which seeks to abolish private property and establish collective ownership of resources, fascism does not reject private ownership or capitalism. Instead, it incorporates a controlled or "state-directed" form of capitalism, where private businesses and industry are allowed to exist and profit but are subordinated to the goals of the state.

How Fascism and Capitalism Can Coexist​

1. State Control over Industry: Fascist leaders typically allow private businesses to function but impose strict controls and regulations to align economic activity with state objectives. Businesses are expected to prioritize the interests of the nation and state, and industries that are strategically important—such as military production, transportation, and media—often come under direct state influence or control.
2. Corporatism: Fascist regimes often adopt a corporatist economic system, which organizes the economy by sectors (e.g., agriculture, manufacturing, transportation) and creates corporations or associations for each sector. The government then mediates between workers, managers, and owners to coordinate production and labor practices. This allows private ownership to persist but under significant state influence, with each sector working toward the state's goals.
3. Alliance with Business Leaders: Fascist governments often form alliances with business leaders, particularly those in industries critical to the state’s goals, like arms manufacturing or heavy industry. In countries like Italy under Mussolini and Germany under Hitler, industrialists supported the fascist government in exchange for favorable treatment, contracts, and a suppression of socialist or labor movements that might threaten their businesses.
4. Suppression of Labor Unions and Worker Rights: To ensure that businesses operate smoothly and support the regime’s goals, fascist leaders tend to suppress independent labor unions and control worker movements. They establish state-run labor organizations that appear to represent workers’ interests but are, in reality, geared toward promoting productivity and compliance with the government.
5. Nationalistic Economic Policies: Fascist leaders often adopt policies to make their nations economically self-sufficient, or "autarkic." This might involve incentivizing domestic production, discouraging imports, or promoting products made within the country. Such policies don’t dismantle capitalism but instead direct it to serve nationalistic purposes.

Examples of Fascist Leaders in Capitalistic Economies​

1. Italy under Mussolini: Mussolini’s Italy maintained a capitalist economy but promoted corporatism, where the economy was organized around different sectors represented by state-approved corporations. These corporations were regulated by the state, and individual rights to profit and private property remained intact, provided they didn’t conflict with national goals.
2. Germany under Hitler: Nazi Germany also maintained a capitalist structure, with private businesses like Krupp and IG Farben collaborating closely with the regime. The state’s focus was on maximizing industrial output, particularly in military production, and achieving autarky (self-sufficiency). Businesses thrived as long as they served Nazi aims, particularly the war effort and nationalist expansion.
3. Spain under Franco: Francisco Franco’s Spain initially aligned with fascist principles and worked with existing capitalist institutions. Although the regime initially leaned toward a more state-controlled economy, Spain eventually transitioned toward a more market-driven economy while Franco retained authoritarian control.

Why Capitalism is Compatible with Fascism​

Fascism views economic activity primarily as a means to strengthen the state rather than as a path to individual freedom or class equality. Therefore:

• Profit is acceptable as long as it serves the state’s interests and reinforces nationalistic goals.
• Economic hierarchy is tolerated or even encouraged, as fascism does not aim for social or economic equality.
• Control, not ownership, is key: Fascist leaders focus on directing and controlling industries rather than owning them outright. This allows private entities to operate under the watchful eye of the state, ensuring loyalty to national goals.

In essence, fascist regimes can work within a capitalist framework by reshaping it to serve authoritarian and nationalist objectives, rather than dismantling it as communism seeks to do. This alignment makes fascism and capitalism historically compatible, especially in contexts where economic output and national strength are prioritized over democratic freedoms or individual autonomy.

First bullet. State control over industry. Trump wants to shrink the Govt. You lose again, Herr Slade

 

[BlackSand]

I didn't think there were enough crazies to reelect that disgusting leader of a failed insurrection. I'll still oppose his harmful behavior in any way I can, but there is nothing left to do but accept reality and move on and hope he doesn't do too much damage for the next president to repair.

.

You were wrong ... And still are for that matter ...
You think that garbage you are spewing will get the Democrats across the finish line.

The best thing that may have come out of the past election ...
Is that Former Vice President Pence won't be on the ballot after President Trump's upcoming term.

It may be wise for the Democrats to recognize their tired old diatribe lost as much as Vice President Harris did.

.​

 

[toomuchtime_]

I didn't think there were enough crazies to reelect that disgusting leader of a failed insurrection. I'll still oppose his harmful behavior in any way I can, but there is nothing left to do but accept reality and move on and hope he doesn't do too much damage for the next president to repair.

In other words, you are upset the Democratic candidate didn't win, but you don't know why.

 

[Slade3200]

Fascists aren’t fond of capitalism while Trump, Ben and I certainly are.

Fascists have commonly sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism and relegate it to the state. However, fascism does support private property rights and the existence of a market economy and very wealthy individuals

That’s not Trump, that’s not Ben, that’s certainly not what I believe. You lost again, Herr Slade. We all believe in small Govt and lower regulations. As does Trump.

The regulatory part of the definition is a gray area with Trump as he does want to deregulate more than a stereotypical fascist. There is much more the the definition of fascist that you are completely ignoring

 

[Slade3200]

I did. Look at his coalition. It went across party lines, genders, races, ideologies. It was a true alliance and it led to a notable victory in both the EC and the total vote.

Having a strong personality doesn’t make one a Fascist, Herr Slade. Ben is smarter than you and so am I. Take the L.

Hi coalition is full of ass kissers who either sucked up to him or who could bring him votes and influence to win the election.

 

[Slade3200]

If Trump supported DEI, vaccine mandates, defund the police, end the filibuster and open borders. I surely would not vote for him. Dont say “you know it”. Thats bad faith debating, Herr Lesh. My positions never changed.

Correct, you wouldn't vote for him, and if he instututed the same trolling, dishonest, bully tacts that he currently operates under you'd be screaming fascism. You've got a huge blind spot because he is on your "team"