I took the Moderna shots.

[Flopper]

Wrong.
Thousands have died from the mRNA vaccines.
Some are the usual anaphylactic shock, Guillain-Barre syndrome, syncope, etc., but the injection can migrate and cause death if it reaches the heart or brain before being attacked by the immune system. But the much larger issue is how dangerous it is to cause the immune system to trigger on just a single spike protein instead of a whole virus. That is extremely unpredictable since our own exosomes have to use that same spike protein for ACE2 receptor access.

There is big difference in dying from the vaccine and dying after taking the vaccine. The VAERS database contains deaths occurring after the vaccine usually up to one month after vaccination. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. That is one death for ever 48 million vaccinations assuming all those deaths were due to the vaccine. On going scientific investigations has show very few of the reported deaths are due to the vaccine. So far there have been only 3 cases that have been identified as caused by the vaccine.

There has been no creditable source that has published the number of anaphylactic shock deaths due to the vaccine. However we do know the number anaphylactic shock cases average about 5 per million vaccinations or about 2000 for 400 million injections. It has a mortality rate of 2% which brings the estimated number of deaths down to about 40. Since Epipens are required at all vaccinations sites and are 84% effective at preventing deaths, the actually number is probably much lower. As of Jun 17th there have been 11 reported cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome after vaccination. The mortality rate is about 4%.

Case reports describe 'unusual' Guillain-Barre variants following COVID-19 vaccination

Two studies published in Annals of Neurology reported small clusters “of an unusual variant of Guillain-Barre syndrome” following receipt of a COVID-19 vaccine, according to a press release from the American Neurological Association.The 11 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome occurred among...

www.healio.com

COVID-19 Vaccination

Fatal Anaphylaxis: Mortality Rate and Risk Factors

Up to 5% of the US population has suffered anaphylaxis. Fatal outcome is rare, such that even for people with known venom or food allergy, fatal anaphylaxis constitutes less than 1% of total mortality risk. The incidence of fatal anaphylaxis has not increased ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Flopper]

2nd Moderna was worse for me.
About 12 hours later, suddenly cold limbs, convulsive shivering so bad I could not stand.
Threw up every 4 hours the first night.
Fever, headaches, weakness lasted 3 weeks.
Not at all similar to any previous vaccine.

Not a good design.
Here is how CDC site describes mRNA vax.
{...
COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give instructions for our cells to make a harmless piece of what is called the “spike protein.” The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19.

1. First, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. Once the instructions (mRNA) are inside the muscle cells, the cells use them to make the protein piece. After the protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them.
2. Next, the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19.
3. At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. The benefit of mRNA vaccines, like all vaccines, is those vaccinated gain this protection without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19.

...}
That makes no sense.
How can an intramuscular injection enter cells?
Why would we want something programming our own cells to make spike proteins?
How could that ever control dosage, since different people would translate mRNA into spike proteins at different rates?
Why would be want our immune system to trigger on spike proteins our own exosomes have to also use?

As I explained before, muscle cells absorb the mRNA from the blood. The process that cells use to absorb water, nutrients, and other other substances from the blood is called Endocytosis. In short, Endocytosis is the process in which cells absorb molecules by engulfing them. The plasma membrane creates a small deformation inward, called an invagination, in which the substance to be transported is captured.

The Cell Membrane: Passive and Active Transport — The Biology Primer

thebiologyprimer.com

​

 

[Flopper]

there is no advantage to anyone else if you get vaxed or not.

Except the vaccine appears to be nearly worthless since virual spreading appears to be about the same whether vaccinated or not.
{...

Similar viral load in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant​

...}

Similar viral load in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant

Researchers evaluated Ct-values among distinct groups, namely, a) completely vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals and b) asymptomatic and symptomatic individuals at the time of testing.

www.news-medical.net

So there is no advantage to anyone else if you get vaxed or not.

That depends on who you believe, the CDC, FDA, MDA, American Academy Science, and the vast majority of organizations that are involved in medical research OR social media, conspiracy theory blogs and web sites, and people who just want to make up shit because they want attention or have an agenda.

 

[Rigby5]

There is big difference in dying from the vaccine and dying after taking the vaccine. The VAERS database contains deaths occurring after the vaccine usually up to one month after vaccination. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. That is one death for ever 48 million vaccinations assuming all those deaths were due to the vaccine. On going scientific investigations has show very few of the reported deaths are due to the vaccine. So far there have been only 3 cases that have been identified as caused by the vaccine.

There has been no creditable source that has published the number of anaphylactic shock deaths due to the vaccine. However we do know the number cases average about 5 per million vaccinations or about 2000 for 400 million injections. It has a mortality rate of 2% which brings the estimated number of deaths down to about 40. Since Epipens are required at all vaccinations sites and are 84% effective at preventing deaths, the actually number is probably much lower. As of Jun 17th there have been 11 reported cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome after vaccination. The mortality rate is about 4%.

Case reports describe 'unusual' Guillain-Barre variants following COVID-19 vaccination

Two studies published in Annals of Neurology reported small clusters “of an unusual variant of Guillain-Barre syndrome” following receipt of a COVID-19 vaccine, according to a press release from the American Neurological Association.The 11 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome occurred among...

www.healio.com

COVID-19 Vaccination

Fatal Anaphylaxis: Mortality Rate and Risk Factors

Up to 5% of the US population has suffered anaphylaxis. Fatal outcome is rare, such that even for people with known venom or food allergy, fatal anaphylaxis constitutes less than 1% of total mortality risk. The incidence of fatal anaphylaxis has not increased ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The point is what you said is wrong.

{... Actually we do have an idea that the long term sides will be zero. Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. ...}

Hundreds if not thousands have died from the vaccines.
And it is totally wrong to cite past vaccines to predict future deaths from these mRNA vaccines.
These mRNA vaccines are not at all like any other vaccine, in that they do not target a virus, bacteria, or parasite.
By targeting only a spike protein that is also used by our own exosomes, then these mRNA vaccines run a far higher risk of a deadly autoimmune response, possibly decades later.

 

[Rigby5]

As I explained before, muscle cells absorb the mRNA from the blood. The process that cells use to absorb water, nutrients, and other other substances from the blood is called Endocytosis. In short, Endocytosis is the process in which cells absorb molecules by engulfing them. The plasma membrane creates a small deformation inward, called an invagination, in which the substance to be transported is captured.

The Cell Membrane: Passive and Active Transport — The Biology Primer

thebiologyprimer.com

​

The process of absorbing nutrients from the blood involves dissolved ions normally.
In contrast, mRNA is not soluble, and is not in the blood, but injected intramuscular, pretty much then ensured to NOT get into the blood.
Sure there are endocytosis methods for getting things into cells, but that requires endosomes and lysosomes designed for that intent, and instead, the body would most certainly NOT have a mechanism for allowing alien mRNA into a cell.
It would try to keep alien mRNA out.
But even if one could get the mRNA into our own cells, what would be the point?
Having our own ribosomes translate alien mRNA that would cause our own cells to grow spike proteins is incredibly delicate, risky, and useless, since it would be far easier to just make spike proteins in factories, and just inject them intramuscularly.
If produced in a factory, one could then just measure dose.
If our one ribosomes produce them, then some would not get any, and others would be vastly over dosed.

 

[Rigby5]

That depends on who you believe, the CDC, FDA, MDA, American Academy Science, and the vast majority of organizations that are involved in medical research OR social media, conspiracy theory blogs and web sites, and people who just want to make up shit because they want attention or have an agenda.

First of all, the CDC has been fairly consistently WRONG.
Second is that the sources saying the viral loading as far as spread is the same, is from reliable sources.
Third is that the vaccine trains the immune system to target spike proteins, not viruses, so it may be something like the immune system may not notice viral loading until they start to die and the debris is noticed.
I personally have no confidence the medical community understands mRNA methods very well at all.

 

[Ray9]

I am 74. I got two Pfizer shots. The second one gave me night sweats the first night and my arm got a red rash on it. I had a kind of brain fog for three days and then I felt fine. I got the shot for you, not for me. If you are young and you do not want the shot I support that.

 

[toobfreak]

I can not legally articulate how fucking pissed off I am at all of the sniveling, servile, bed wetting, ballot box stuffing, piece of shit leftist parasites that keep this hysterical covid bullshit alive.

Oh, gee, Pete, I hate to tell you this, but I had a real good conversation with a medical buddy of mine just today and you're not going to like what he had to say! Sometime in the next few days when I have the time and feel like it, I plan to package the gist of those conversations into 1 or 2 threads here, but suffice it to say this guy knows his stuff, and basically, if we had not shutdown/locked down last year and gone into this super-isolatory societal deep freeze since March of 2020 and just used common sense, advising anyone who actually was starting to FEEL SICK to go home and stay there a week or so, we would have all been getting tiny exposures to small viral loads these past 18-19 months, enough to build up our immunity and would be no worse off, probably better and saved trillions in lost savings, business and income, and all would have developed a natural herd immunity just like we did with things like smallpox! There is absolutely NO POINT in asymptomatic people walking around in hiding, wearing masks and social distancing! Which means the whole mask thing is bullshit.

The people running this shit show are either the dumbest MFers since ergot rye fungus or are doing all this for some clandestine reason.

 

[Rigby5]

Oh, gee, Pete, I hate to tell you this, but I had a real good conversation with a medical buddy of mine just today and you're not going to like what he had to say! Sometime in the next few days when I have the time and feel like it, I plan to package the gist of those conversations into 1 or 2 threads here, but suffice it to say this guy knows his stuff, and basically, if we had not shutdown/locked down last year and gone into this super-isolatory societal deep freeze since March of 2020 and just used common sense, advising anyone who actually was starting to FEEL SICK to go home and stay there a week or so, we would have all been getting tiny exposures to small viral loads these past 18-19 months, enough to build up our immunity and would be no worse off, probably better and saved trillions in lost savings, business and income, and all would have developed a natural herd immunity just like we did with things like smallpox! There is absolutely NO POINT in asymptomatic people walking around in hiding, wearing masks and social distancing! Which means the whole mask thing is bullshit.

The people running this shit show are either the dumbest MFers since ergot rye fungus or are doing all this for some clandestine reason.

The main 2 strategies for any epidemic are fast because anything slow just kills more people.
If it is very lethal, like Ebola, then you do full quarantine with contact tracing.
If it is not very lethal, like flu, then the best strategy is deliberate infection, variolation, to achieve herd immunity the quickest.

It is my opinion that we should have deliberately infected volunteers under 40, since they have a death rate 400 times lower than those over 70.
Then it would have been all over in 2 weeks, last March.

 

[Flopper]

The point is what you said is wrong.

{... Actually we do have an idea that the long term sides will be zero. Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. ...}

Hundreds if not thousands have died from the vaccines.
And it is totally wrong to cite past vaccines to predict future deaths from these mRNA vaccines.
These mRNA vaccines are not at all like any other vaccine, in that they do not target a virus, bacteria, or parasite.
By targeting only a spike protein that is also used by our own exosomes, then these mRNA vaccines run a far higher risk of a deadly autoimmune response, possibly decades later.

Vaccines in regard to side effects are remarkable similar. The reason that we get side effects is that our immune system is revving up and reacting to the vaccine produced to antigen. When you get sick, the same thing happens. It is not the vaccine that causes the side effects, it is your immune system.

Hundreds if not thousands have died from the vaccines??? I doubt that in the US. Do you have a creditable link?

The mRNA vaccines uses the cells it enters to create a spike protein which is expelled by the cell and recognized by our immune system and stored in the immune system memory. The mRNA, having done it's job is expelled by the body within 2 weeks thus it can not possible cause a deadly autoimmune response decades later because it is not there.

 

[Rigby5]

Vaccines in regard to side effects are remarkable similar. The reason that we get side effects is that our immune system is revving up and reacting to the vaccine produced to antigen. When you get sick, the same thing happens. It is not the vaccine that causes the side effects, it is your immune system.

Hundreds if not thousands have died from the vaccines??? I doubt that in the US. Do you have a creditable link?

The mRNA vaccines uses the cells it enters to create a spike protein which is expelled by the cell and recognized by our immune system and stored in the immune system memory. The mRNA, having done it's job is expelled by the body within 2 weeks thus it can not possible cause a deadly autoimmune response decades later because it is not there.

VAERS Summary for COVID-19 Vaccines through 10/1/2021 – VAERS Analysis

vaersanalysis.info

This link shows 16,000 deaths after the vaccine.
While some of these could be murders or suicides, that fact there have also been 75,000 hospitalizations means there have been a huge number of side effects caused by the mRNA vaccines.

I myself took the 2nd Moderna and almost died.
The convulsions made it impossible to drive or even stand or walk.

But yes of course most of the symptoms from a vaccine or illness are from the immune system actually.

The CDC claims the mRNA enters the cells, but that should not be possible.
They claim your own ribosomes then translate the mRNA instructions to grow spike proteins, but that sounds crazy.
There then would be no way to control how many spike proteins would be produced, with some people producing none while others would over dose.

But the dangers are much greater than that. Since the injection is just molecular instead of relatively large viruses, it can migrate. It does not stay in the arm muscle. And if it gets to the heart or brain, you die.
Since what is deadly about the virus is an over response from the immune system, then this vaccine injection can easily stimulate the exact same deadly over response.
And finally, our own exosomes have to use this same spike protein to access ACE2 receptors, so then the potential for a deadly autoimmune response is there for the rest of our lives.
It does not matter if the mRNA quickly is expelled or not, because it is the increasing the immune response to spike proteins that could always remain deadly forever.

 

[Flopper]

VAERS Summary for COVID-19 Vaccines through 10/1/2021 – VAERS Analysis

vaersanalysis.info

This link shows 16,000 deaths after the vaccine.
While some of these could be murders or suicides, that fact there have also been 75,000 hospitalizations means there have been a huge number of side effects caused by the mRNA vaccines.

I myself took the 2nd Moderna and almost died.
The convulsions made it impossible to drive or even stand or walk.

But yes of course most of the symptoms from a vaccine or illness are from the immune system actually.

The CDC claims the mRNA enters the cells, but that should not be possible.
They claim your own ribosomes then translate the mRNA instructions to grow spike proteins, but that sounds crazy.
There then would be no way to control how many spike proteins would be produced, with some people producing none while others would over dose.

But the dangers are much greater than that. Since the injection is just molecular instead of relatively large viruses, it can migrate. It does not stay in the arm muscle. And if it gets to the heart or brain, you die.
Since what is deadly about the virus is an over response from the immune system, then this vaccine injection can easily stimulate the exact same deadly over response.
And finally, our own exosomes have to use this same spike protein to access ACE2 receptors, so then the potential for a deadly autoimmune response is there for the rest of our lives.
It does not matter if the mRNA quickly is expelled or not, because it is the increasing the immune response to spike proteins that could always remain deadly forever.

16,000 out 400 million vaccinations is one death per 25,000 which might seem really high but the chances are only very small fraction of percent died due to the vaccine. Since VAERS system allows adverse reactions to be entered for up to one month after vaccination, it easy to see why there are so many deaths. It is extremely rare to have an adverse reaction after 3 or 4 days of vaccination. During the clinical trials with 44,000 participates, 6 died but 4 were not given the vaccine but a placebo. The other two died of natural causes totally unrelated to the vaccine.

The cells do take in the vaccine through simple diffusion, a process that allows cells to take in nutrients and discard waste products. Transport proteins in the cell membrane allow for selective passage of specific molecules from the external environment. Some of these proteins act as gatekeepers, determining what substances can and cannot cross the membrane. mRNA vaccines contain substances that allow the vaccine to pass through these gatekeepers. When the vaccine combines with cell proteins to form the spike protein, these gatekeepers identify it as a waste product and it's passes out of cell through the membrane. It adheres to the outside surface of the membrane of cells and is identified as a foreign substance which elicits an immune response.

This first immune response to the spike protein can take days or even weeks Once complete, this immune response produces antibodies and T cells to attack the spike protein. The immune system memory stores this response so when the true pathogen enters the body, a rapid immune response is created typically within a few hours. This response is in addition to any antibodies created due to the vaccine.

What Is a Cell?.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I know at least five people who died of covid this past week.

Stop your friggin bitching.

And I now know of at least one who is a pathological liar.

 

[Rigby5]

16,000 out 400 million vaccinations is one death per 25,000 which might seem really high but the chances are only very small fraction of percent died due to the vaccine. Since VAERS system allows adverse reactions to be entered for up to one month after vaccination, it easy to see why there are so many deaths. It is extremely rare to have an adverse reaction after 3 or 4 days of vaccination. During the clinical trials with 44,000 participates, 6 died but 4 were not given the vaccine but a placebo. The other two died of natural causes totally unrelated to the vaccine.

The cells do take in the vaccine through simple diffusion, a process that allows cells to take in nutrients and discard waste products. Transport proteins in the cell membrane allow for selective passage of specific molecules from the external environment. Some of these proteins act as gatekeepers, determining what substances can and cannot cross the membrane. mRNA vaccines contain substances that allow the vaccine to pass through these gatekeepers. When the vaccine combines with cell proteins to form the spike protein, these gatekeepers identify it as a waste product and it's passes out of cell through the membrane. It adheres to the outside surface of the membrane of cells and is identified as a foreign substance which elicits an immune response.

This first immune response to the spike protein can take days or even weeks Once complete, this immune response produces antibodies and T cells to attack the spike protein. The immune system memory stores this response so when the true pathogen enters the body, a rapid immune response is created typically within a few hours. This response is in addition to any antibodies created due to the vaccine.

What Is a Cell?.

Using our own cells to produce spike proteins is extremely dangerous because there is no quantity control.
With some people no spike proteins may be produced at all, while with others a potentially lethal quantity is possible,

Second is that T-cells can not possibly be remembering and triggering on spike proteins, because these same spike proteins are also used by our own exosomes.
And if spike proteins really were what was being used as an immune system trigger, then variants would not make any difference, as they all have to also use the same spike protein as well.

And in my experience, the immune response did not take days or weeks.
With the 2nd Moderna shot, (which I could tell was much larger than the first shot), my intense and very uncomfortable response was about 11 hours later. It was intense illness for a week, and minor discomfort for over 3 weeks.

 

[Flopper]

VAERS Summary for COVID-19 Vaccines through 10/1/2021 – VAERS Analysis

vaersanalysis.info

This link shows 16,000 deaths after the vaccine.
While some of these could be murders or suicides, that fact there have also been 75,000 hospitalizations means there have been a huge number of side effects caused by the mRNA vaccines.

I myself took the 2nd Moderna and almost died.
The convulsions made it impossible to drive or even stand or walk.

But yes of course most of the symptoms from a vaccine or illness are from the immune system actually.

The CDC claims the mRNA enters the cells, but that should not be possible.
They claim your own ribosomes then translate the mRNA instructions to grow spike proteins, but that sounds crazy.
There then would be no way to control how many spike proteins would be produced, with some people producing none while others would over dose.

But the dangers are much greater than that. Since the injection is just molecular instead of relatively large viruses, it can migrate. It does not stay in the arm muscle. And if it gets to the heart or brain, you die.
Since what is deadly about the virus is an over response from the immune system, then this vaccine injection can easily stimulate the exact same deadly over response.
And finally, our own exosomes have to use this same spike protein to access ACE2 receptors, so then the potential for a deadly autoimmune response is there for the rest of our lives.
It does not matter if the mRNA quickly is expelled or not, because it is the increasing the immune response to spike proteins that could always remain deadly forever.

During that time period approximately 4.9 million people in the US died
Since there has been 70% of the population vaccinated during that period one would expect 3.43 million deaths among the vaccinated, even if they didn't receive the vaccine. Of the 16,000 deaths reported, so far only 3 have been linked to the vaccines.

Are you still making those claims that the vaccine does not enter the cells? A Covid shot is given into muscles fibers. Each muscle fiber is made up of a one single cell. There are about 100,000 of them tightly packed into the arm muscle where the shot is given. Another way you can be sure that the needle and vaccines get's into the mussel cells is soreness which is caused by the needle damaging the cell wall and the inflammation in the cell due to the vaccine doing it's job.

 

[Rigby5]

During that time period approximately 4.9 million people in the US died
Since there has been 70% of the population vaccinated during that period one would expect 3.43 million deaths among the vaccinated. 16,000 seems very low when you look number of people vaccinated that died.

Good Grief are you still making those claims that the vaccines do not enter the cells. A Covid shot is given into muscles fiber. Each muscle fiver is made up of a one single cell. There are about 125,000 of them in the bicep which is where the shot is given.

That 4.9 million died in the US from other causes besides covid, shows that covid is being over played, not just the deaths from covid vaccines.

But the point of the covid vaccines is not mostly about the deaths they cause, but that they have no lasting positive effect, so are not worth it.

The point is that waiting 1.5 years for the fake vaccines killed over half a million people unnecessarily.
We could have and should have achieved herd immunity last March, with a tenth the deaths we have now.
And for what?
A vaccine that only temporarily boosts antibody production, but has zero long term immune system memory effect.

And no, do not claim the vaccine does not enter cells, but that they can migrate before they do, so can infect heart, brain, or capillary cells with its spike protein production. This has lead to the amputation of hands and feet, as well as death.

Student Gets Leg Amputated After COVID-19 Vaccine, Dies Of Brain Blood Clots

The student had received two different brands of COVID-19 vaccines.

www.ibtimes.com

{...

Student Gets Leg Amputated After COVID-19 Vaccine, Dies Of Brain Blood Clots​

20-year-old student whose leg was amputated after getting a COVID-19 vaccine has died of blood clots in the brain.

Ketsiree Kongkaew, who studied at Phangnga Community College in Thailand, died of a hemorrhagic stroke after brain surgery. The student had remained unconscious following the surgery and needed a ventilator to breathe. She was pronounced dead Monday.

The young woman, who had been admitted to the Songklanagarind Hospital, had previously gotten her left leg amputated after she developed blood clots following her second dose of COVID-19 vaccine, according to The Bangkok Post.

Kongkaew had received two different vaccine brands for her first and second shots. Her first dose was a COVID-19 vaccine developed by China’s SinoVac and the second was from Oxford-AstraZeneca.

The brain hemorrhage that doctors attempted to treat Monday was the result of thrombolytic drugs she was taking to treat blood clots, Anupong Thammarong, Kongkaew’s classmate, told the publication.

Kongkaew first felt ill after receiving her second shot of the COVID-19 vaccine on Aug. 13. The student complained of a fever and chest pains on Aug 16. At the time, a doctor at the Phangnga Hospital diagnosed her with a bladder infection.

She was rushed back to the hospital after complaining about severe pain in her left leg. An X-ray later revealed she had blood clots that required urgent surgery. Because of her condition, Kongkaew was transferred to multiple hospitals before doctors at the Songklanagrind Hospital decided to amputate her leg.
...}

 

[Flopper]

Using our own cells to produce spike proteins is extremely dangerous because there is no quantity control.
With some people no spike proteins may be produced at all, while with others a potentially lethal quantity is possible,

Second is that T-cells can not possibly be remembering and triggering on spike proteins, because these same spike proteins are also used by our own exosomes.
And if spike proteins really were what was being used as an immune system trigger, then variants would not make any difference, as they all have to also use the same spike protein as well.

And in my experience, the immune response did not take days or weeks.
With the 2nd Moderna shot, (which I could tell was much larger than the first shot), my intense and very uncomfortable response was about 11 hours later. It was intense illness for a week, and minor discomfort for over 3 weeks.

The first dose and second dose of your Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine should be exactly the same, both chemically and from a dosage standpoint.

The spike protein does not exist in the human body unless you have been vaccinated or have had covid. The only thing the immune system does with the spike protein which is created by the mRNA vaccine is elicit and immune response in the form of antibodies and B Cells and T Cells. When body is invaded by the virus, these cells and antibodies attack the virus.

The immune system response to different variant's spike protein may or may not be same because the spike protein may not be the same as that created by the vaccine. For example the Omicron variant has had 30 to 40 mutations to the spike protein while the spike protein produced by the vaccine has not changed. At some point in time there will probably be a vaccine update that produces spike proteins for a number of variants.

VERIFY: Is there a difference between COVID-19 vaccine dose one and two?

Both Pfizer and Moderna's COVID-19 vaccines require two shots to reach the maximum level of protection against the virus. Are the two doses different?

www.wcnc.com

T-Cells & COVID-19: Penn Study Shows Robust T-Cell Response to Vaccine

Messenger-RNA (mRNA) vaccines against the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 provoke a swift and strong response by the immune system’s T cells—the heavy armor of the immune system—according to a study from researchers in the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.

www.pennmedicine.org

 

[Rigby5]

The first dose and second dose of your Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine should be exactly the same, both chemically and from a dosage standpoint.

The spike protein does not exist in the human body unless you have been vaccinated or have had covid. The only thing the immune system does with the spike protein which is created by the mRNA vaccine is elicit and immune response in the form of antibodies and B Cells and T Cells. When body is invaded by the virus, these cells and antibodies attack the virus.

The immune system response to different variant's spike protein may or may not be same because the spike protein may not be the same as that created by the vaccine. For example the Omicron variant has had 30 to 40 mutations to the spike protein while the spike protein produced by the vaccine has not changed. At some point in time there will probably be a vaccine update that produces spike proteins for a number of variants.

VERIFY: Is there a difference between COVID-19 vaccine dose one and two?

Both Pfizer and Moderna's COVID-19 vaccines require two shots to reach the maximum level of protection against the virus. Are the two doses different?

www.wcnc.com

T-Cells & COVID-19: Penn Study Shows Robust T-Cell Response to Vaccine

Messenger-RNA (mRNA) vaccines against the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 provoke a swift and strong response by the immune system’s T cells—the heavy armor of the immune system—according to a study from researchers in the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.

www.pennmedicine.org

I could see the hypos, and the 2nd Moderna I was given was at least 4 times the size of the first.
This was at Walmart however.

But you are wrong about the spike proteins.
They are constantly made and used by the body.
Why do the spike proteins even exist at all in the covid virus?
That is because they are the key to unlocking the ACE2 receptors, that allow exosomes of covid, into our cells.
Here is how covid uses the ACE2 receptors to enter cells.
{...
An outbreak of pneumonia caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) that started in Wuhan, China, at the end of 2019 has become a global pandemic. Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV enter host cells via the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed in various human organs. We have reviewed previously published studies on SARS and recent studies on SARS-CoV-2 infection, named coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) by the World Health Organization (WHO), confirming that many other organs besides the lungs are vulnerable to the virus. ACE2 catalyzes angiotensin II conversion to angiotensin-(1-7), and the ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS axis counteracts the negative effects of the renin-angiotensin system (RAS), which plays important roles in maintaining the physiological and pathophysiological balance of the body. In addition to the direct viral effects and inflammatory and immune factors associated with COVID-19 pathogenesis, ACE2 downregulation and the imbalance between the RAS and ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS after infection may also contribute to multiple organ injury in COVID-19. The SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein, which binds to ACE2, is a potential target for developing specific drugs, antibodies, and vaccines. Restoring the balance between the RAS and ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS may help attenuate organ injuries. SARS-CoV-2 enters lung cells via the ACE2 receptor. The cell-free and macrophage-phagocytosed virus can spread to other organs and infect ACE2-expressing cells at local sites, causing multi-organ injury.
...}

Role of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in COVID-19 - PubMed

An outbreak of pneumonia caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) that started in Wuhan, China, at the end of 2019 has become a global pandemic. Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV enter host cells via the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But why do cells have ACE2 receptors to begin with?
That is in order to let in exosomes.
Exosomes essentially messengers the body sends to cells, to regulate their functionality.
To get into a cell, they use the same spike proteins as covid, in the ACE2 receptor socket.
{...
Exosomes were first discovered in the maturing mammalian reticulocyte (immature red blood cell) by Stahl and group in 1983 [9] and Johnstone and group in 1983[10] further termed 'exosomes' by Johnstone and group in 1987.[11] Exosomes were shown to participate in selective removal of many plasma membrane proteins[12] as the reticulocyte becomes a mature red blood cell (erythrocyte). In the reticulocyte, as in most mammalian cells, portions of the plasma membrane are regularly internalized as endosomes, with 50 to 180% of the plasma membrane being recycled every hour.[13] In turn, parts of the membranes of some endosomes are subsequently internalized as smaller vesicles. Such endosomes are called multivesicular bodies because of their appearance, with many small vesicles, (ILVs or "intralumenal endosomal vesicles"), inside the larger body. The ILVs become exosomes if the MVB merges with the cell membrane, releasing the internal vesicles into the extracellular space.[14]

Exosomes contain various molecular constituents of their cell of origin, including proteins and RNA. Although the exosomal protein composition varies with the cell and tissue of origin, most exosomes contain an evolutionarily-conserved common set of protein molecules. The protein content of a single exosome, given certain assumptions of protein size and configuration, and packing parameters, can be about 20,000 molecules.[15] The cargo of mRNA and miRNA in exosomes was first discovered at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden.[16]

The content of exosomes changes depending on the cells of origin, and they thereby reflect their originating cells. Analysis of the dynamic variation of exosomes may provide a valuable means of monitoring diseases[17].In that study, the differences in cellular and exosomal mRNA and miRNA content was described, as well as the functionality of the exosomal mRNA cargo. Exosomes have also been shown to carry double-stranded DNA.[18]

Exosomes can transfer molecules from one cell to another via membrane vesicle trafficking, thereby influencing the immune system, such as dendritic cells and B cells, and may play a functional role in mediating adaptive immune responses to pathogens and tumors.[19][20] Therefore, scientists who are actively researching the role that exosomes may play in cell-to-cell signaling, often hypothesize that delivery of their cargo RNA molecules can explain biological effects. For example, mRNA in exosomes has been suggested to affect protein production in the recipient cell.[16][21][22] However, another study has suggested that miRNAs in exosomes secreted by mesenchymal stem cells (MSC) are predominantly pre- and not mature miRNAs.[23] Because the authors of this study did not find RNA-induced silencing complex-associated proteins in these exosomes, they suggested that only the pre-miRNAs, but not the mature miRNAs in MSC exosomes, have the potential to be biologically active in the recipient cells. Multiple mechanisms have been reported to be involved in loading miRNAs into exosomes, including specific motifs in the miRNA sequences, interactions with lncRNAs localized to the exosomes, interactions with RBPs, and post-translational modifications of Ago.[24]

Conversely, exosome production and content may be influenced by molecular signals received by the cell of origin. As evidence for this hypothesis, tumor cells exposed to hypoxia secrete exosomes with enhanced angiogenic and metastatic potential, suggesting that tumor cells adapt to a hypoxic microenvironment by secreting exosomes to stimulate angiogenesis or facilitate metastasis to more favorable environment.[25]
...}

Exosome (vesicle) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To give a feel for the similarity between exosomes and covid, one theory is that viruses like covid may have started as exosomes that at some point mutated and went rogue, like a cancer.

 

[Flopper]

I could see the hypos, and the 2nd Moderna I was given was at least 4 times the size of the first.
This was at Walmart however.

But you are wrong about the spike proteins.
They are constantly made and used by the body.
Why do the spike proteins even exist at all in the covid virus?
That is because they are the key to unlocking the ACE2 receptors, that allow exosomes of covid, into our cells.
Here is how covid uses the ACE2 receptors to enter cells.
{...
An outbreak of pneumonia caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) that started in Wuhan, China, at the end of 2019 has become a global pandemic. Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV enter host cells via the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed in various human organs. We have reviewed previously published studies on SARS and recent studies on SARS-CoV-2 infection, named coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) by the World Health Organization (WHO), confirming that many other organs besides the lungs are vulnerable to the virus. ACE2 catalyzes angiotensin II conversion to angiotensin-(1-7), and the ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS axis counteracts the negative effects of the renin-angiotensin system (RAS), which plays important roles in maintaining the physiological and pathophysiological balance of the body. In addition to the direct viral effects and inflammatory and immune factors associated with COVID-19 pathogenesis, ACE2 downregulation and the imbalance between the RAS and ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS after infection may also contribute to multiple organ injury in COVID-19. The SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein, which binds to ACE2, is a potential target for developing specific drugs, antibodies, and vaccines. Restoring the balance between the RAS and ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS may help attenuate organ injuries. SARS-CoV-2 enters lung cells via the ACE2 receptor. The cell-free and macrophage-phagocytosed virus can spread to other organs and infect ACE2-expressing cells at local sites, causing multi-organ injury.
...}

Role of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in COVID-19 - PubMed

An outbreak of pneumonia caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) that started in Wuhan, China, at the end of 2019 has become a global pandemic. Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV enter host cells via the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But why do cells have ACE2 receptors to begin with?
That is in order to let in exosomes.
Exosomes essentially messengers the body sends to cells, to regulate their functionality.
To get into a cell, they use the same spike proteins as covid, in the ACE2 receptor socket.
{...
Exosomes were first discovered in the maturing mammalian reticulocyte (immature red blood cell) by Stahl and group in 1983 [9] and Johnstone and group in 1983[10] further termed 'exosomes' by Johnstone and group in 1987.[11] Exosomes were shown to participate in selective removal of many plasma membrane proteins[12] as the reticulocyte becomes a mature red blood cell (erythrocyte). In the reticulocyte, as in most mammalian cells, portions of the plasma membrane are regularly internalized as endosomes, with 50 to 180% of the plasma membrane being recycled every hour.[13] In turn, parts of the membranes of some endosomes are subsequently internalized as smaller vesicles. Such endosomes are called multivesicular bodies because of their appearance, with many small vesicles, (ILVs or "intralumenal endosomal vesicles"), inside the larger body. The ILVs become exosomes if the MVB merges with the cell membrane, releasing the internal vesicles into the extracellular space.[14]

Exosomes contain various molecular constituents of their cell of origin, including proteins and RNA. Although the exosomal protein composition varies with the cell and tissue of origin, most exosomes contain an evolutionarily-conserved common set of protein molecules. The protein content of a single exosome, given certain assumptions of protein size and configuration, and packing parameters, can be about 20,000 molecules.[15] The cargo of mRNA and miRNA in exosomes was first discovered at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden.[16]

The content of exosomes changes depending on the cells of origin, and they thereby reflect their originating cells. Analysis of the dynamic variation of exosomes may provide a valuable means of monitoring diseases[17].In that study, the differences in cellular and exosomal mRNA and miRNA content was described, as well as the functionality of the exosomal mRNA cargo. Exosomes have also been shown to carry double-stranded DNA.[18]

Exosomes can transfer molecules from one cell to another via membrane vesicle trafficking, thereby influencing the immune system, such as dendritic cells and B cells, and may play a functional role in mediating adaptive immune responses to pathogens and tumors.[19][20] Therefore, scientists who are actively researching the role that exosomes may play in cell-to-cell signaling, often hypothesize that delivery of their cargo RNA molecules can explain biological effects. For example, mRNA in exosomes has been suggested to affect protein production in the recipient cell.[16][21][22] However, another study has suggested that miRNAs in exosomes secreted by mesenchymal stem cells (MSC) are predominantly pre- and not mature miRNAs.[23] Because the authors of this study did not find RNA-induced silencing complex-associated proteins in these exosomes, they suggested that only the pre-miRNAs, but not the mature miRNAs in MSC exosomes, have the potential to be biologically active in the recipient cells. Multiple mechanisms have been reported to be involved in loading miRNAs into exosomes, including specific motifs in the miRNA sequences, interactions with lncRNAs localized to the exosomes, interactions with RBPs, and post-translational modifications of Ago.[24]

Conversely, exosome production and content may be influenced by molecular signals received by the cell of origin. As evidence for this hypothesis, tumor cells exposed to hypoxia secrete exosomes with enhanced angiogenic and metastatic potential, suggesting that tumor cells adapt to a hypoxic microenvironment by secreting exosomes to stimulate angiogenesis or facilitate metastasis to more favorable environment.[25]
...}

Exosome (vesicle) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To give a feel for the similarity between exosomes and covid, one theory is that viruses like covid may have started as exosomes that at some point mutated and went rogue, like a cancer.

I could see the hypos, and the 2nd Moderna I was given was at least 4 times the size of the first.

This was at Walmart however.

But you are wrong about the spike proteins.
They are constantly made and used by the body.
Why do the spike proteins even exist at all in the covid virus?
That is because they are the key to unlocking the ACE2 receptors, that allow exosomes of covid, into our cells.
Here is how covid uses the ACE2 receptors to enter cells.
{...
An outbreak of pneumonia caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) that started in Wuhan, China, at the end of 2019 has become a global pandemic. Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV enter host cells via the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed in various human organs. We have reviewed previously published studies on SARS and recent studies on SARS-CoV-2 infection, named coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) by the World Health Organization (WHO), confirming that many other organs besides the lungs are vulnerable to the virus. ACE2 catalyzes angiotensin II conversion to angiotensin-(1-7), and the ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS axis counteracts the negative effects of the renin-angiotensin system (RAS), which plays important roles in maintaining the physiological and pathophysiological balance of the body. In addition to the direct viral effects and inflammatory and immune factors associated with COVID-19 pathogenesis, ACE2 downregulation and the imbalance between the RAS and ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS after infection may also contribute to multiple organ injury in COVID-19. The SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein, which binds to ACE2, is a potential target for developing specific drugs, antibodies, and vaccines. Restoring the balance between the RAS and ACE2/angiotensin-(1-7)/MAS may help attenuate organ injuries. SARS-CoV-2 enters lung cells via the ACE2 receptor. The cell-free and macrophage-phagocytosed virus can spread to other organs and infect ACE2-expressing cells at local sites, causing multi-organ injury.
...}

Role of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in COVID-19 - PubMed

An outbreak of pneumonia caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) that started in Wuhan, China, at the end of 2019 has become a global pandemic. Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV enter host cells via the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But why do cells have ACE2 receptors to begin with?
That is in order to let in exosomes.
Exosomes essentially messengers the body sends to cells, to regulate their functionality.
To get into a cell, they use the same spike proteins as covid, in the ACE2 receptor socket.
{...
Exosomes were first discovered in the maturing mammalian reticulocyte (immature red blood cell) by Stahl and group in 1983 [9] and Johnstone and group in 1983[10] further termed 'exosomes' by Johnstone and group in 1987.[11] Exosomes were shown to participate in selective removal of many plasma membrane proteins[12] as the reticulocyte becomes a mature red blood cell (erythrocyte). In the reticulocyte, as in most mammalian cells, portions of the plasma membrane are regularly internalized as endosomes, with 50 to 180% of the plasma membrane being recycled every hour.[13] In turn, parts of the membranes of some endosomes are subsequently internalized as smaller vesicles. Such endosomes are called multivesicular bodies because of their appearance, with many small vesicles, (ILVs or "intralumenal endosomal vesicles"), inside the larger body. The ILVs become exosomes if the MVB merges with the cell membrane, releasing the internal vesicles into the extracellular space.[14]

Exosomes contain various molecular constituents of their cell of origin, including proteins and RNA. Although the exosomal protein composition varies with the cell and tissue of origin, most exosomes contain an evolutionarily-conserved common set of protein molecules. The protein content of a single exosome, given certain assumptions of protein size and configuration, and packing parameters, can be about 20,000 molecules.[15] The cargo of mRNA and miRNA in exosomes was first discovered at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden.[16]

The content of exosomes changes depending on the cells of origin, and they thereby reflect their originating cells. Analysis of the dynamic variation of exosomes may provide a valuable means of monitoring diseases[17].In that study, the differences in cellular and exosomal mRNA and miRNA content was described, as well as the functionality of the exosomal mRNA cargo. Exosomes have also been shown to carry double-stranded DNA.[18]

Exosomes can transfer molecules from one cell to another via membrane vesicle trafficking, thereby influencing the immune system, such as dendritic cells and B cells, and may play a functional role in mediating adaptive immune responses to pathogens and tumors.[19][20] Therefore, scientists who are actively researching the role that exosomes may play in cell-to-cell signaling, often hypothesize that delivery of their cargo RNA molecules can explain biological effects. For example, mRNA in exosomes has been suggested to affect protein production in the recipient cell.[16][21][22] However, another study has suggested that miRNAs in exosomes secreted by mesenchymal stem cells (MSC) are predominantly pre- and not mature miRNAs.[23] Because the authors of this study did not find RNA-induced silencing complex-associated proteins in these exosomes, they suggested that only the pre-miRNAs, but not the mature miRNAs in MSC exosomes, have the potential to be biologically active in the recipient cells. Multiple mechanisms have been reported to be involved in loading miRNAs into exosomes, including specific motifs in the miRNA sequences, interactions with lncRNAs localized to the exosomes, interactions with RBPs, and post-translational modifications of Ago.[24]

Conversely, exosome production and content may be influenced by molecular signals received by the cell of origin. As evidence for this hypothesis, tumor cells exposed to hypoxia secrete exosomes with enhanced angiogenic and metastatic potential, suggesting that tumor cells adapt to a hypoxic microenvironment by secreting exosomes to stimulate angiogenesis or facilitate metastasis to more favorable environment.[25]
...}

Exosome (vesicle) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To give a feel for the similarity between exosomes and covid, one theory is that viruses like covid may have started as exosomes that at some point mutated and went rogue, like a cancer.

If you mean the spike protein is a natural occurrence within the human body, you are wrong. The spike protein is a pathogen and is recognized as such by the immune system so it can not exist naturally within the body. There are two ways the spike protein is made in the human body, first when the virus replicates the spike protein being part of the virus is replicated. Second, the spike protein is made within muscle cells by the mRNA vaccine that enters the cell.

The purpose of the spike protein which forms the spikes on the virus is to break into cells allowing the virus to use proteins in the cells to replicate itself.

The purpose of the spike protein created by the mRNA vaccines is to trick the immune system into a response. That response includes production of memory cells both T cells, T-lymphocytes as and B cells, B-lymphocytes which create antibodies. So when the real virus enters the body, there will be both T cells and B cells which will recognize the spike protein in virus as a pathogen and produce an immediate response plus these cells will multiply.

If you have been vaccinated, your body has T cells an B cells that have been imprinted with the spike protein so when the virus enters the body these memory cells will begin producing antibodies to stop the spread of the virus almost immediately. If you have not been vaccinated it can take days or weeks.

New variants such as the Omicron variant are appearing with lots of mutations to the spike protein. Since our T cells and B cells have been imprinted through vaccination with the alpha variant spike protein, how effective will these memory cells be in recognizing the mutated spike protein that produces an immune response? If the response is significantly lower, then we are going to need not a booster but an updated vaccine that will create spike proteins for the new variants so we can have a strong immune response for all known variants.

BTW, this CDC link is a good laymen's explanation as to how the immune system works and how vaccines work.

Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work

Learn how COVID-19 vaccines work and develop immunity to the virus.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Rigby5]

I could see the hypos, and the 2nd Moderna I was given was at least 4 times the size of the first.

If you mean the spike protein is a natural occurrence within the human body, you are wrong. The spike protein is a pathogen and is recognized as such by the immune system so it can not exist naturally within the body. There are two ways the spike protein is made in the human body, first when the virus replicates, the spike protein, being part of the virus is replicated. Second, the spike protein is made within the cells by the miRNA vaccine that enters the cell.

The purpose of the spike protein which forms the spikes on the virus is to break into cells allowing the virus to use proteins in cells to replicate itself.

The purpose of the spike protein created by the mRNA vaccines is to trick the immune system into a response. That response includes production of both T cells, T-lymphocytes as and B cells, B-lymphocytes which create antibodies so when the real virus enters the body, there will be both T cells and B cells which will recognize the spike protein in virus as a pathogen and produce an immediate response plus these cells will multiply.

If you have been vaccinated, your body has T cells an B cells that have been imprinted with the spike protein so when the virus enters the body these memory cells will begin producing antibodies to stop the spread of the virus almost immediately. If you have not been vaccinated it can take days or weeks.

New variants such as the Omicron variant are appearing with lots of mutations to the spike protein. Since our T cells and B cells have been imprinted through vaccination with the alpha variant spike protein, how effective will these memory cells be in producing an immune response? If the response is significantly lower, then we are going to need not a booster but an updated vaccine that will create spike proteins for new variants so we can have a strong immune response for all known variants.

BTW, this link is a good laymen's explanation as to how the immune system works and how vaccines work.

Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work

Learn how COVID-19 vaccines work and develop immunity to the virus.

www.cdc.gov

No, the spike protein is not to "break in" to a cell, but to be deliberately let in.
Why would human cells have ACE2 receptor sites that can be opened by a spike protein, unless there already is a normal use for those ACE2 receptor sites, to let exosomes into our cells.

And that normal use for ACE2 receptor sites is to allow exosome messengers into each cell, to regulate cell activity.

What is the ACE2 receptor?

How is the ACE2 receptor connected to coronavirus, and why might it be key to treating COVID-19? Three experts explain.

www.asbmb.org