I took the Moderna shots.

[JLW]

And I now know of at least one who is a pathological liar.

Are you ever not an ahole?

Every word of that post was true.

I also know at least one person who puts his own warped politics ahead of the lives of others.

 

[Rigby5]

Vaccines in regard to side effects are remarkable similar. The reason that we get side effects is that our immune system is revving up and reacting to the vaccine produced to antigen. When you get sick, the same thing happens. It is not the vaccine that causes the side effects, it is your immune system.

Hundreds if not thousands have died from the vaccines??? I doubt that in the US. Do you have a creditable link?

The mRNA vaccines uses the cells it enters to create a spike protein which is expelled by the cell and recognized by our immune system and stored in the immune system memory. The mRNA, having done it's job is expelled by the body within 2 weeks thus it can not possible cause a deadly autoimmune response decades later because it is not there.

Wrong.
Since our own exosomes, (messenger service within our own body), has to use the same spike proteins in access the same ACE2 receptors, then any attempt to get our immune system to trigger and attack spike proteins WILL then be assured of causing a serious autoimmune disease.
The mRNA from the vaccine does not have to still be in the body for this to happen.
If the mRNA vaccine succeeds in causing the immune system to attack spike proteins, then for sure there will be a horrific autoimmune response.
Our own body exosome do and must use the same spike proteins.
Why do you think our cells have ACE2 receptors that can be activated by spike proteins?
It is so exosomes have a way to get into our cells.

As for adverse vaccine incidents, here are some stats on actual proven cases where compensation was given.
{...
How many petitions have been awarded compensation? According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2019 over 4 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 8,516 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 6,054were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, approximately 1 individual was compensated. Since 1988, over 24,441 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 30-year time period, 20,300 petitions have been adjudicated, with 8,353 of those determined to be compensable, while 11,947were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $4.6 billion
...}

https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/data/data-statistics-report.pdf

 

[Flopper]

No, the spike protein is not to "break in" to a cell, but to be deliberately let in.
Why would human cells have ACE2 receptor sites that can be opened by a spike protein, unless there already is a normal use for those ACE2 receptor sites, to let exosomes into our cells.

And that normal use for ACE2 receptor sites is to allow exosome messengers into each cell, to regulate cell activity.

What is the ACE2 receptor?

How is the ACE2 receptor connected to coronavirus, and why might it be key to treating COVID-19? Three experts explain.

www.asbmb.org

Basically, yes. The spike proteins latch the virus onto the human cell. This allows them to get entry into those cells. SARS-CoV2- uses the human ACE2 as entry receptor and human proteases as entry activators.

Cell entry mechanisms of SARS-CoV-2

A key to curbing SARS-CoV-2 is to understand how it enters cells. SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV both use human ACE2 as entry receptor and human proteases as entry activators. Using biochemical and pseudovirus entry assays and SARS-CoV as a comparison, we have identified key cell entry mechanisms of...

www.pnas.org

 

[Batcat]

I have had two Moderna shots. No problems at all. Not even a sore arm. I also get a flu shot every year and have never had a negative reaction to those vaccines either. Obviously people react differently.

I have had the same experience. No reactions to two Moderna shots and never had a reaction to a flu shot.

When I was a child I got the small pox vaccination which leaves a scar on your arm if it takes.

I got the shot at least three times and it never took. The last time was when I entered the Air Force.

 

[Flopper]

Wrong.
Since our own exosomes, (messenger service within our own body), has to use the same spike proteins in access the same ACE2 receptors, then any attempt to get our immune system to trigger and attack spike proteins WILL then be assured of causing a serious autoimmune disease.
The mRNA from the vaccine does not have to still be in the body for this to happen.
If the mRNA vaccine succeeds in causing the immune system to attack spike proteins, then for sure there will be a horrific autoimmune response.
Our own body exosome do and must use the same spike proteins.
Why do you think our cells have ACE2 receptors that can be activated by spike proteins?
It is so exosomes have a way to get into our cells.

As for adverse vaccine incidents, here are some stats on actual proven cases where compensation was given.
{...
How many petitions have been awarded compensation? According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2019 over 4 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 8,516 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 6,054were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, approximately 1 individual was compensated. Since 1988, over 24,441 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 30-year time period, 20,300 petitions have been adjudicated, with 8,353 of those determined to be compensable, while 11,947were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $4.6 billion
...}

https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/data/data-statistics-report.pdf

Your reply does no make any sense. I was discussing the creating of the spike protein and you were discussing getting our immune system to trigger an attack on spike proteins

 

[Flopper]

Wrong.
Since our own exosomes, (messenger service within our own body), has to use the same spike proteins in access the same ACE2 receptors, then any attempt to get our immune system to trigger and attack spike proteins WILL then be assured of causing a serious autoimmune disease.
The mRNA from the vaccine does not have to still be in the body for this to happen.
If the mRNA vaccine succeeds in causing the immune system to attack spike proteins, then for sure there will be a horrific autoimmune response.
Our own body exosome do and must use the same spike proteins.
Why do you think our cells have ACE2 receptors that can be activated by spike proteins?
It is so exosomes have a way to get into our cells.

As for adverse vaccine incidents, here are some stats on actual proven cases where compensation was given.
{...
How many petitions have been awarded compensation? According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2019 over 4 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 8,516 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 6,054were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, approximately 1 individual was compensated. Since 1988, over 24,441 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 30-year time period, 20,300 petitions have been adjudicated, with 8,353 of those determined to be compensable, while 11,947were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $4.6 billion
...}

https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/data/data-statistics-report.pdf

Your reply has no relevance to my post.

 

[Rigby5]

Basically, yes. The spike proteins latch the virus onto the human cell. This allows them to get entry into those cells. SARS-CoV2- uses the human ACE2 as entry receptor and human proteases as entry activators.

Cell entry mechanisms of SARS-CoV-2

A key to curbing SARS-CoV-2 is to understand how it enters cells. SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV both use human ACE2 as entry receptor and human proteases as entry activators. Using biochemical and pseudovirus entry assays and SARS-CoV as a comparison, we have identified key cell entry mechanisms of...

www.pnas.org

Yes, but the ACE2 receptors are not there in our cells in order to accommodate viruses.
Instead they are there for exosomes, that carry messages from other parts of the body.
Which is why the spike protein can't vary among variants, because if they did, they would no longer be able to mimic an exosome, and no longer be let into our ACE2 receptor sites.
Which is then why the claim of the vaccines losing effectiveness can't be due to variants.
That has to be a cover story, for the vaccines always only being a temporary treatment, stimulating antibody production for a few months.
Since the vaccines claim to only need spike proteins in order to work, then variants can't make any difference because all variants have to remain using the exact same spike protein mimicking exosomes.

 

[Rigby5]

Your reply does no make any sense. I was discussing the creating of the spike protein and you were discussing getting our immune system to trigger an attack on spike proteins

Sure it does.
If I remember correctly, we were discussing how the mRNA vaccines could cause a delayed autoimmune disease.
And the point is the mRNA vaccine does not have to hanging around in the body for that to happen.

First the mRNA vaccine is injected and gets into the cells, where it creates spike proteins and is used up.
If that is going to create immunity, (which I don't think it does), then T-cell memory is going to have to remember that spike protein as harmful.
So then months or years later, when the same spike proteins is detected by T-cells, then the immune system will start generating anti-bodies to attack it.
But what if those spike proteins are just our own exosomes, from our own body trying to regulate our own cells?
Since it it our own cells generating and trying to receive these spike protein exosomes, the potential a nasty autoimmune disease is huge.
Remember, both exosomes and covid have to open the same ACE2 receptor site, so then have to have the same spike protein.

 

[Rigby5]

Your reply has no relevance to my post.

Sure it does.
If over 8,000 people were compensated for drastic side effects from good vaccines, and the covid vaccines may be as much as 10 times as many negative and severe side effects, then clearly the number of problems with covid vaccines could be very significant.
And that is not even counting the long term side effects I believe are going to happen but have not happened yet.

There are several things these mRNA vaccines are doing that should not be done.
One is they do not contain a virus, so run the risk of causing mistargeting of the immune system later on.
Two is that they generate spike proteins by invading human cells, which runs the risk of damaging our own cells in the process.
And by generating spike proteins on the fly, they run the risk of no quantity control, generating none in some people, but too many in others.
Three is that by trying to mark spike proteins as enemy tags, they run the risk of harming out own system of exosomes.
Four is that these mRNA injections are too small to be just injected into a muscle and expect them to stay put.
They are migrating, and where ever they end up gets attacked by our immune system. That can easily be fatal and it has been.

 

[Flopper]

Sure it does.
If I remember correctly, we were discussing how the mRNA vaccines could cause a delayed autoimmune disease.
And the point is the mRNA vaccine does not have to hanging around in the body for that to happen.

First the mRNA vaccine is injected and gets into the cells, where it creates spike proteins and is used up.
If that is going to create immunity, (which I don't think it does), then T-cell memory is going to have to remember that spike protein as harmful.
So then months or years later, when the same spike proteins is detected by T-cells, then the immune system will start generating anti-bodies to attack it.
But what if those spike proteins are just our own exosomes, from our own body trying to regulate our own cells?
Since it it our own cells generating and trying to receive these spike protein exosomes, the potential a nasty autoimmune disease is huge.
Remember, both exosomes and covid have to open the same ACE2 receptor site, so then have to have the same spike protein.

How the mRNA vaccines work is not a "what if question". It is a documented fact. The manufacture of the spike protein within the cells and getting that spike protein to the surface of cell so it can be recognized as an antigen is not a process the laymen is likely to understand. This is why explanations are generally dumb downed. Although the process is better explained in the following video, this is a thumb nail sketch of the manufacture of the spike protein and getting it to the surface of the cell so it can recognized by T cells and B cells to produce immune system memory and antibodies.

The mRNA causes Ribosomes to create the Spike Protein within the cell. Proteosomes breaks down the spike protein into small pieces. These pieces are channeled into Endoplasmic reticulum which load the pieces into MHC1s which general bind peptides. The MHC1 build bubbles around the spike protein pieces and presents them on the surface of the cell. These spike pieces which are held by the MCH1 are are then bound to TCR’s, (T Cell Receptors). Thus begins the response to an antigen which includes creation of antibodies and T Cell memory.

 

[Rigby5]

How the mRNA vaccines work is not a "what if question". It is a documented fact. The manufacture of the spike protein within the cells and getting that spike protein to the surface of cell so it can be recognized as an antigen is not a process the laymen is likely to understand. This is why explanations are generally dumb downed. Although the process is better explained in the following video, this is a thumb nail sketch of the manufacture of the spike protein and getting it to the surface of the cell so it can recognized by T cells and B cells to produce immune system memory and antibodies.

The mRNA causes Ribosomes to create the Spike Protein within the cell. Proteosomes breaks down the spike protein into small pieces. These pieces are channeled into Endoplasmic reticulum which load the pieces into MHC1s which general bind peptides. The MHC1 build bubbles around the spike protein pieces and presents them on the surface of the cell. These spike pieces which are held by the MCH1 are are then bound to TCR’s, (T Cell Receptors). Thus begins the response to an antigen which includes creation of antibodies and T Cell memory.

You miss the point.
Spike proteins can not be used to remember and trigger on in the future.
The covid spike protein has to be identical to our own exosome spike proteins, or else covid would not be able to mimic exosomes with it, and gain access to the ACE2 receptors that were intended for exosome spike proteins.

The fact these fake spike proteins are also manufactured in our own cells is not just totally besides the point, but also bizarre and incredibly dangerous.
Manufacturing spike proteins inside our own cells means there no quantity control, allowing for a huge range in production depending on the individual, from none to so many as to be lethal.
If one did need to use spike proteins, they should have been made in the labs ahead of time.

 

[Flopper]

Yes, but the ACE2 receptors are not there in our cells in order to accommodate viruses.
Instead they are there for exosomes, that carry messages from other parts of the body.
Which is why the spike protein can't vary among variants, because if they did, they would no longer be able to mimic an exosome, and no longer be let into our ACE2 receptor sites.
Which is then why the claim of the vaccines losing effectiveness can't be due to variants.
That has to be a cover story, for the vaccines always only being a temporary treatment, stimulating antibody production for a few months.
Since the vaccines claim to only need spike proteins in order to work, then variants can't make any difference because all variants have to remain using the exact same spike protein mimicking exosomes.

The mRNA vaccines do not need spike proteins to work. They create spike proteins within the cells. Through a chain of processes within the cells caused by the vaccine, this spike protein is forced to surface of the cell. It remains in body for about two weeks. During that time, it comes into contact with T cells and B cells which recognize it as an antigen causing the production of antibodies and immune system memory. Within about two weeks the spike protein is gone from the body but the antibodies and a memory of spike protein remains to prevent major infections from covid.

 

[Flopper]

You miss the point.
Spike proteins can not be used to remember and trigger on in the future.
The covid spike protein has to be identical to our own exosome spike proteins, or else covid would not be able to mimic exosomes with it, and gain access to the ACE2 receptors that were intended for exosome spike proteins.

The fact these fake spike proteins are also manufactured in our own cells is not just totally besides the point, but also bizarre and incredibly dangerous.
Manufacturing spike proteins inside our own cells means there no quantity control, allowing for a huge range in production depending on the individual, from none to so many as to be lethal.

As far the value of mRNA vaccines, the record speaks for itself. Unvaccinated patients accounted for 84.2% of hospitalizations according to JAMA, Journal of the Medical Association. The study included 4513 hospitalized adults in 18 US states. The vaccinated patients were vaccinated with either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. These results should come as no surprise to anyone who read the results of 6 mos of clinical trials with over 60,000 participants or any of the more than a dozen independent studies of the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines.

Association of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination With Hospitalizations and Disease Severity

This case-control study explores the association between vaccination with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines and hospitalization for COVID-19, and, among patients hospitalized with COVID-19, the association with progression to critical disease in adults from 18 US states.

jamanetwork.com

 

[Rigby5]

The mRNA vaccines do not need spike proteins to work. They create spike proteins within the cells. Through a chain of processes within the cells caused by the vaccine, this spike protein is forced to surface of the cell. It remains in body for about two weeks. During that time, it comes into contact with T cells and B cells which recognize it as an antigen causing the production of antibodies and immune system memory. Within about two weeks the spike protein is gone from the body but the antibodies and a memory of spike protein remains to prevent major infections from covid.

The fact they create spike proteins, means spike proteins are essential to the mRNA vaccine process.
The antibodies do not last and disappear slowly in less than 4 months.
The T-cells and B-cells can not remember spike proteins as the enemy pathogens because T-cells and B-cells already are programmed to recognize spike proteins as our own exosomes.

Never has an mRNA vaccine demonstrated any long term memory.

 

[Rigby5]

As far the value of mRNA vaccines, the record speaks for itself. Unvaccinated patients accounted for 84.2% of hospitalizations according to JAMA, Journal of the Medical Association. The study included 4513 hospitalized adults in 18 US states. The vaccinated patients were vaccinated with either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. These results should come as no surprise to anyone who read the results of 6 mos of clinical trials with over 60,000 participants or any of the more than a dozen independent studies of the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines.

Association of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination With Hospitalizations and Disease Severity

This case-control study explores the association between vaccination with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines and hospitalization for COVID-19, and, among patients hospitalized with COVID-19, the association with progression to critical disease in adults from 18 US states.

jamanetwork.com

No, the majority of the hospitalized are from the 1.5 years before there even were any vaccines, and after the vaccines were developed, it the antibody production stimulation of the original shot that temporarily reduces the severity of infection.
The mRNA vaccines have never demonstrated any long term results at all.
If the mRNA vaccines actually worked, there would be no need for boosters.
With no other vaccines have efficacy ever dropped in such a short period.
Most vaccines remain full strength for over a decade at least.

6 months of clinical trials is nothing.
This is less than a tenth the normal vaccine testing.

 

[Flopper]

The fact they create spike proteins, means spike proteins are essential to the mRNA vaccine process.
The antibodies do not last and disappear slowly in less than 4 months.
The T-cells and B-cells can not remember spike proteins as the enemy pathogens because T-cells and B-cells already are programmed to recognize spike proteins as our own exosomes.

Never has an mRNA vaccine demonstrated any long term memory.

If the antibodies disappear in less than 4 moths then we know the immune system memory is responsible Efficacy of vaccine otherwise these mRNA vaccines would not have an efficacy of 47% to 62% after 5 months. It simply would not be possibly if antibodies were gone in 4 months.

These mRNA vaccine efficacies may seem low possibly because they were so high in first month. By comparison the average flu vaccine between 2009 and 2020 was 43% and like the mRNA vaccines the efficacy fell in the 6 months following the vaccination.

Most all vaccines that do not contain a live, attenuated (weakened) virus, typically require multiple doses or boosters,” They tend to have high efficacy but it falls every month. This was expected. The CDC mentioning the possible need for boosters before the first dose was given to the public. As one scientist said, boosters are the price you pay for very save and high efficacy vaccines.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2113017

Effectiveness of mRNA BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine up to 6 months in a large integrated health system in the USA: a retrospective cohort study

Our results provide support for high effectiveness of BNT162b2 against hospital admissions up until around 6 months after being fully vaccinated, even in the face of widespread dissemination of the delta variant. Reduction in vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infections over time is...

www.thelancet.com

 

[Rigby5]

If the antibodies disappear in less than 4 moths then we know the immune system memory is responsible Efficacy of vaccine otherwise these mRNA vaccines would not have an efficacy of 47% to 62% after 5 months. It simply would not be possibly if antibodies were gone in 4 months.

These mRNA vaccine efficacies may seem low possibly because they were so high in first month. By comparison the average flu vaccine between 2009 and 2020 was 43% and like the mRNA vaccines the efficacy fell in the 6 months following the vaccination.

Most all vaccines that do not contain a live, attenuated (weakened) virus, typically require multiple doses or boosters,” They tend to have high efficacy but it falls every month. This was expected. The CDC mentioning the possible need for boosters before the first dose was given to the public. As one scientist said, boosters are the price you pay for very save and high efficacy vaccines.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2113017

Effectiveness of mRNA BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine up to 6 months in a large integrated health system in the USA: a retrospective cohort study

Our results provide support for high effectiveness of BNT162b2 against hospital admissions up until around 6 months after being fully vaccinated, even in the face of widespread dissemination of the delta variant. Reduction in vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infections over time is...

www.thelancet.com

No, the original vax does not have any efficacy left after 5 or 6 months.
The fact there is still any vax efficacy is from the boosters.
That is why the boosters.
Efficacy can not drop in T-cell memory.
That has to always remain constant for many years or decades even.

 

[Flopper]

No, the original vax does not have any efficacy left after 5 or 6 months.
The fact there is still any vax efficacy is from the boosters.
That is why the boosters.
Efficacy can not drop in T-cell memory.
That has to always remain constant for many years or decades even.

You said, “The antibodies do not last and disappear slowly in less than 4 months.” Therefore they must not exist at 5 or 6 months after vaccination. If there is no immune system memory from the vaccine which you claim, efficacy and efficiency of the vaccine would be zero. However multiple studies have shown the mRNA vaccines have efficacy or efficiency of between 43% and 58% 5 and 6 months after vaccination and this is without any boosters. These studies were complete prior to booster authorization.

A Lancet study of the fully vaccinated with mRNA vaccines from Dec 14, 2020 to Aug 18, 2021 was conducted to see to how effective the mRNA vaccines were after 5 months. Effectiveness against infections declined from 88% first month after full vaccination to 47% after 5 months.

Researchers from the Public Health Institute, the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, and the University of Texas Health Science Center compared the vaccine's effectiveness in March to that in September. They found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine’s effectiveness against infection dropped to 43.3% from 86.9% after six months. The Moderna Vaccine saw a similar decline, falling to 58.0% from 89.2%.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Everything You Need to Know | Healthline

Live news & updates on the Coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak

www.healthline.com

COVID-19 Vaccine Protection Wanes After 6 Months, Especially for J&J

A new study finds that protection against infection from all three COVID vaccines waned after six months, and it was lowest for Johnson & Johnson.

www.verywellhealth.com

 

[Rigby5]

You said, “The antibodies do not last and disappear slowly in less than 4 months.” Therefore they must not exist at 5 or 6 months after vaccination. If there is no immune system memory from the vaccine which you claim, efficacy and efficiency of the vaccine would be zero. However multiple studies have shown the mRNA vaccines have efficacy or efficiency of between 43% and 58% 5 and 6 months after vaccination and this is without any boosters. These studies were complete prior to booster authorization.

A Lancet study of the fully vaccinated with mRNA vaccines from Dec 14, 2020 to Aug 18, 2021 was conducted to see to how effective the mRNA vaccines were after 5 months. Effectiveness against infections declined from 88% first month after full vaccination to 47% after 5 months.

Researchers from the Public Health Institute, the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, and the University of Texas Health Science Center compared the vaccine's effectiveness in March to that in September. They found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine’s effectiveness against infection dropped to 43.3% from 86.9% after six months. The Moderna Vaccine saw a similar decline, falling to 58.0% from 89.2%.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Everything You Need to Know | Healthline

Live news & updates on the Coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak

www.healthline.com

COVID-19 Vaccine Protection Wanes After 6 Months, Especially for J&J

A new study finds that protection against infection from all three COVID vaccines waned after six months, and it was lowest for Johnson & Johnson.

www.verywellhealth.com

T-cell immunity does not decline at all in years, or even decades.
If one has resistance that fades, it can not be from T-cell immunity memory.

While antibodies normally only live a few months, there are several possibilities.
One is that the mRNA vaccine may linger longer than believed, constantly re-stimulating antibody production?
Or the spike proteins could have a backlog stored inside cells, that slowly escape and stimulate antibody production?
Another possibility is that the spike protein generation somehow stimulates longer lasting antibodies?
It is also possible that their testing simply was not accurate enough. I have no idea how they tested for efficacy since that would require deliberate exposure and accurate testing.

But normal vaccine efficacy does not and can not decline.
That is not possible in months or a year even.

 

[skye]

Moderna and Pfizer are one of the most poisonous.

They all are venomous ....but those two...wow

Mercy on those who took this jab.

Heart inflammation risk in Pfizer and Moderna jabs evaluated​

Heart inflammation risk in Pfizer and Moderna jabs evaluated

The European Medicines Agency's safety committee has confirmed a “very rare” risk of myocarditis and pericarditis in individuals who've had the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna Covid vaccines, having conducted large Europe-wide studies.

www.rt.com