CDZ I Recently Watched American Sniper

[JoeMoma]

I consider all those who risk their lives in service to my country to be heros. Chris Kyle was one of many such heros.

"In service to my Country" is the component of that sentence you need to give some thought to.

Already done before I posted it. Perhaps you need to do more thinking yourself.

 

[MikeK]

Already done before I posted it. Perhaps you need to do more thinking yourself.

I can tell you for sure you've served the oil industry, the Saudi Royal Family, and the U.S. Military Industrial Complex.

Now tell us how your service in the Middle East has served your country -- presuming your country is the U.S. What would have happened to America if you hadn't volunteered to go to Iraq or Afghanistan under arms?

 

[MaryL]

Is this the Michael Moore more school of criticism? Those that can, do, those that can't wine bitch, nitpick and preach....

 

[MikeK]

Is this the Michael Moore more school of criticism? Those that can, do, those that can't wine bitch, nitpick and otherwise can't ....

Those who can, do -- what?

 

[MaryL]

Is this the Michael Moore more school of criticism? Those that can, do, those that can't wine bitch, nitpick and otherwise can't ....

Those who can, do -- what?

Is this the flame board? I am sorry, did I miss something?

 

[MikeK]

Those who can, do -- what?

Is this the flame board? I am sorry, did I miss something?

I'm not aware of any flaming going on. What I see is an exchange of thoughts.

You said, "those who can, do."

I asked what you are referring to.

You made a simple statement. I asked a simple question, which you haven't answered. Is that what you mean by "flaming?"

 

[MaryL]

M. Moore claimed his father was slain by a german sniper in WWII, More called snipers cowards, The facts of all that I don't know. Let's go back to square one here, I am not insulting you or anyone else.

 

[MikeK]

M. Moore claimed his father was slain by a german sniper in WWII, More called snipers cowards, The facts of all that I don't know. Let's go back to square one here, I am not insulting you or anyone else.

Michael Moore presents an obnoxious persona, a circumstance which strongly affects perception of his observations -- some of which are delivered in a rudely offensive form. But my objective appraisal of Moore's observations is he is more often right than wrong.

I'm pleased that your reference to Moore was not intended to insult. But if you disagree with something I said, this is a discussion forum and reasoned debate is constructive.

 

[MikeK]

So you DID just agree that a movie you haven't seen isn't that good of a movie and you ARE arguing from prejudice and/or the opinion of others.

Thank you for illustrating that your opinion here need not be taken seriously.

Why don't you tell us what you think of this movie and, more important, what accounts for your appraisal of it. What did you like about it and what, if anything did you dislike?

 

[MikeK]

The reason American Sniper is getting so much shall we say dislike from the left is because in my opinion the movie did not do three things a lot of the left would want to see in a movie concerning the Iraq war. It did not portray the American solider as a kill crazy psycho,

What movie or other medium you are aware of portrayed the American soldier, per se, as a "kill-crazy psycho?" I have seen movies in which individual American soldiers have been shown as such, but in each example the depiction was based on factual circumstances, such as the My Lai massacre. So in this example you are grossly exaggerating the circumstances.

it did not have a blame America theme

If blame is the issue, what nation was to blame for the Vietnam debacle? What nation is to blame for the invasion of Iraq? And what nation is to blame for replicating the wasteful, wholly unnecessary folly perpetrated by Russia in the mountains of Afghanistan?

and there was no trashing of George W Bush.

Just how does one "trash" a reprehensible villain like George W. Bush? This despicable criminal belongs in prison. And if the World Court could get hold of him they probably would hang him, which he richly deserves.

George W. Bush is directly responsible for every life lost in Iraq, both American and innocent Iraqi, and for every ounce and inch of misery, and for every drop of waste the criminal act of aggressive invasion has caused. His crime is so vast in its nature its magnitude sails right over the head of the average observer. He is a modern Nero.

It was a story about one solider and the effect the war had on him and his family no flag waving no political messages as far as people considering Kyle a hero well that is all in the eye of the beholder there are a lot of people who consider Edward Snowden a hero everyone has their own idea of what a hero is.

I haven't seen the movie so I can't comment on the production itself. But based on what I've read and heard by those who have seen it, it tends to glorify one individual soldier on the basis of his skill with a sniper rifle while paying no attention to the fundamental reason for his presence there.

If this is a mistaken impression I will readily admit that when this movie finally comes around to HBO and I watch it. But the movie I am anxious to see is the one which deals with the reason why my countrymen have been deposited in Iraq in the first place.

I already know all I need to know about the M-40, the M-14, the 7.62, 30.06, and .308 rounds, the Barrett rifle, and the Leupold 4x scope. I've seen enough about them and I've done my share of precision shooting with an M-1 Garand and a Remington 700BDL. So this aspect of the movie is not going to impress me. I'm interested in something else.

 

[jwoodie]

Frankly, it isn't that good a movie to warrant all the attention it is getting.

Based on... what?

It didn't have much of a plot.

You must not have seen the same movie, then.
The plot was clear, present and pretty much in for face the entire time -- and, most of all, of you didn't already know how it would end, then you had no idea how oit would end.

Seriously, what was the plot?

 

[jwoodie]

George W. Bush is directly responsible for every life lost in Iraq, both American and innocent Iraqi, and for every ounce and inch of misery, and for every drop of waste the criminal act of aggressive invasion has caused. His crime is so vast in its nature its magnitude sails right over the head of the average observer. He is a modern Nero.

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself. Do you consider Clinton responsible for all the deaths in Bosnia or Obama responsible for all the deaths in Libya? Who do you hold responsible for the deaths in Iraq before the invasion? Who is responsible for the deaths in that country now that we have abandoned it? Does incoherent ranting make you feel better?

 

[candycorn]

The reason American Sniper is getting so much shall we say dislike from the left is because in my opinion the movie did not do three things a lot of the left would want to see in a movie concerning the Iraq war. It did not portray the American solider as a kill crazy psycho, it did not have a blame America theme, and there was no trashing of George W Bush. It was a story about one solider and the effect the war had on him and his family no flag waving no political messages as far as people considering Kyle a hero well that is all in the eye of the beholder there are a lot of people who consider Edward Snowden a hero everyone has their own idea of what a hero is.

They had crazy GI movies in a few WWII movies produced 50 years ago...

Frankly, it isn't that good a movie to warrant all the attention it is getting. Chris Kyle was no more of a hero sniping from a rooftop than were the guys who were kicking in doors to search for terrorists. Like many others he came home with PTSD, but volunteering for four tours didn't help that condition or his family life, either. For me, the main lesson of the movie is that we squandered the sacrifices of these soldiers to make Iraq safe for its citizens.

I liked the US sniper in Saving Private Ryan...

It is better that Saving Private Ryan - imo.

I'm curious...why do you say that?

 

[candycorn]

Frankly, it isn't that good a movie to warrant all the attention it is getting.

Based on... what?

It didn't have much of a plot.

You must not have seen the same movie, then.
The plot was clear, present and pretty much in for face the entire time -- and, most of all, of you didn't already know how it would end, then you had no idea how oit would end.

Seriously, what was the plot?

Biopics, by definition, do not have a "plot". They are episodic in their point of view; A happens then B happens then C happens if the director is true to the life he is depicting.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The reason American Sniper is getting so much shall we say dislike from the left is because in my opinion the movie did not do three things a lot of the left would want to see in a movie concerning the Iraq war. It did not portray the American solider as a kill crazy psycho, it did not have a blame America theme, and there was no trashing of George W Bush. It was a story about one solider and the effect the war had on him and his family no flag waving no political messages as far as people considering Kyle a hero well that is all in the eye of the beholder there are a lot of people who consider Edward Snowden a hero everyone has their own idea of what a hero is.

They had crazy GI movies in a few WWII movies produced 50 years ago...

Frankly, it isn't that good a movie to warrant all the attention it is getting. Chris Kyle was no more of a hero sniping from a rooftop than were the guys who were kicking in doors to search for terrorists. Like many others he came home with PTSD, but volunteering for four tours didn't help that condition or his family life, either. For me, the main lesson of the movie is that we squandered the sacrifices of these soldiers to make Iraq safe for its citizens.

I liked the US sniper in Saving Private Ryan...

It is better that Saving Private Ryan - imo.

I'm curious...why do you say that?

Because it has to do with here and now and never in the history of America has there been a greater need for a revival of what America once stood for, Candycorn. To educate our people and remove the veil of propaganda that has been put upon them concerning what went down in Iraq. Even more what America once stood for - because of propagandists rewriting history today and then having their books studied in colleges and universities- this has been covered up for the most part - men pretending to be historians when in fact - they are bold faced liars.

Our guys were sent over there to fight a war with one hand tied behind their backs. You had women and children setting up road bombs - being used to murder our soldiers and our soldiers being told - you better be right or it is court martial for you. Patton would have been shocked to see what our Soldiers were ordered to do and not to do.

 

[candycorn]

The reason American Sniper is getting so much shall we say dislike from the left is because in my opinion the movie did not do three things a lot of the left would want to see in a movie concerning the Iraq war. It did not portray the American solider as a kill crazy psycho, it did not have a blame America theme, and there was no trashing of George W Bush. It was a story about one solider and the effect the war had on him and his family no flag waving no political messages as far as people considering Kyle a hero well that is all in the eye of the beholder there are a lot of people who consider Edward Snowden a hero everyone has their own idea of what a hero is.

They had crazy GI movies in a few WWII movies produced 50 years ago...

Frankly, it isn't that good a movie to warrant all the attention it is getting. Chris Kyle was no more of a hero sniping from a rooftop than were the guys who were kicking in doors to search for terrorists. Like many others he came home with PTSD, but volunteering for four tours didn't help that condition or his family life, either. For me, the main lesson of the movie is that we squandered the sacrifices of these soldiers to make Iraq safe for its citizens.

I liked the US sniper in Saving Private Ryan...

It is better that Saving Private Ryan - imo.

I'm curious...why do you say that?

Our guys were sent over there to fight a war with one hand tied behind their backs. You had women and children setting up road bombs - being used to murder our soldiers and our soldiers being told - you better be right or it is court martial for you. Patton would have been shocked to see what our Soldiers were ordered to do and not to do.

.

Without looking it up, can you name 100 soldiers since 2003 who were courtmartialed? Can you name 50? Can you name a dozen?

Because it has to do with here and now and never in the history of America has there been a greater need for a revival of what America once stood for, Candycorn. To educate our people and remove the veil of propaganda that has been put upon them concerning what went down in Iraq. Even more what America once stood for - because of propagandists rewriting history today and then having their books studied in colleges and universities- this has been covered up for the most part - men pretending to be historians when in fact - they are bold faced liars.

Not certain what that has to do with the movies but I do recall in Saving Private Ryan, their team leader was Captain Miller who was an English professor drafted into service, took his job seriously, lead his troops with courage and wisdom, and wanted nothing more than to take care of business and go back home. The America I believe in and it's soldiers are not a warrior race of humans who seek to conquer for the sake of conquest; kill for the sake of killing, etc.... I don't think Eastwood's Kyle did that but if you want to revive what you feel America "once" stood for, Captain Miller is much more of a good example than Chris Kyle.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Is that what you believe our soldiers were doing in Iraq? Conquering for the sake of conquest? I disagree with you, Candy.

 

[candycorn]

Is that what you believe our soldiers were doing in Iraq? Conquering for the sake of conquest? I disagree with you, Candy.

That is not what I believe. Although it's hard to find another reason to have gone in there.

I was pointing out that Captain Miller was not randomly murdering Germans in Saving Private Ryan anymore than Chris Kyle was randomly murdering Iraqis....while trying to figure out why you see this large disparity between the two movies. I do point out that the citizen/soldier called upon to defend liberty in the best traditions of our founding fathers is better embodied by Miller than Kyle however.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Is that what you believe our soldiers were doing in Iraq? Conquering for the sake of conquest? I disagree with you, Candy.

That is not what I believe. Although it's hard to find another reason to have gone in there.

I was pointing out that Captain Miller was not randomly murdering Germans in Saving Private Ryan anymore than Chris Kyle was randomly murdering Iraqis....while trying to figure out why you see this large disparity between the two movies. I do point out that the citizen/soldier called upon to defend liberty in the best traditions of our founding fathers is better embodied by Miller than Kyle however.

I believe it was a mistake to go in there - but once in there? Kyle wasn't randomly murdering Iraqis. He was a sniper that was watching from a distance Iraqi's posing as citizens but with deadly weapons / bombs / in their possession in the process of attempting the murder of our guys, Candy. He stopped them dead in their tracks. That is why I call Kyle a hero. A true American hero.

 

[Muhammed]

I've read the book but I've heard that the movie takes a lot of "dramatic license". In other words, some of it is fiction. Like that part I saw on the trailer where he looks in his scope and sees a woman with a little kid and she pulls out a grenade. That's not in the book.

I haven't seen the movie because I prefer watching movies in the comfort of my own home while I'm drinking a beer and munching on home made snacks. So I'll wait until the CD is out and borrow it from the library for free.

Usually I am disappointed when I see a movie based on a book I've read, but there are exceptions.