I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[sangha]

Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery. Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.

Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.

 

[Ravi]

Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery. Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.

Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.

Bingo.

 

[kwc57]

Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery. Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.

Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.

Bullshit! He's asking to see the measured work of what his child is being taught.

 

[Samson]

Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.

Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.


And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.

And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.

Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.

Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.

So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.

All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?

Samson, I deal with parents like you all the time. I can guarantee right now, that you are NEVER anywhere around when the school needs volunteers, don't bother denying it I know from experience that I am 100% correct. You're the asshole that only shows up when you have a complaint.

You also better check the state and federal laws, bullying and or threatening a school employee in the course of their job is illegal.

As for expelling your child, not only do I have the legal ability to do so if I feel like his/her continued attendance at the school will be detrimental to the school as a whole, BUT you don't get to then take your child to a private school and bill me for it, no you get to a different public school district and enroll your child or pay for private school yourself. And yes, my school board has been sued for the very same situation and won, we didn't have to pay for private school.

You indicated earlier that the school used a system similar to our EdLine, now if the teachers aren't utilizing that system you DO have a right to file a complaint, if the school board can't satisfy you, then there is a state board of education which you can file a complaint with. If you can't get satisfaction there, you have the option of suing the school in court to get them to comply. Good luck with that.

Also, out of curiosity, does your child hear you refer to his/her instructors as "those fucking teachers?" Hell of an example you are setting there.

Out of curiousity, do you share everything you write on discussion boards with everyone you know?

I deal with bureaucratic morons like yourself all the time: I guarantee "right now," you have never taught, or been an administrator in a public school.

I also doubt you are on any school board, or at the very least, a competent one. Risking a lawsuit by believing that teachers have been "bullied," without any documentation as evidence, whould put you at the top of the class dunce list.

 

[kwc57]

And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.

Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.

Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.

So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.

All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?

It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.

It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.

How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?

I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.

And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school. That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced. If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.

 

[Samson]

It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.

It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.

How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?

I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.

And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school. That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced. If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.

You'll notice that NOWHERE in this entire thread do I "threaten" anyone.

But, if there's no other defence for stupidity, I guess you must fabricate SOMETHING.

 

[sangha]

Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery. Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.

Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.

Bullshit! He's asking to see the measured work of what his child is being taught.

No. The childs final grades are a "measured work of what his child is being taught". Samson is DEMANDING more than just a final grade

Samson has been clear that he will accept no less than one graded assignment from every teacher every week. Why reword it into some"glittering generality" when the specifics are so clear?

http://changingminds.org/techniques/propaganda/glittering_generalities.htm

 

[ConHog]

It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.

It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.

How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?

I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.

And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school. That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced. If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.

Of course, and who said they shouldn't be? BUT there is a HUGE difference in turning a deaf ear and giving in to every demand. I have said that every reasonable request should be met. Samson DEMANDING that a paper be graded and returned home every week beginning in week one is an unreasonable demand. Especially given that he has also said that his school uses an online resource to allow parents to check their child's progress.

It's like this, let's say your child has 3 assignments in Math for the week and the teacher posts the grades each and every time on EdLine, but doesn't return the papers for the child to bring home. Has the teacher failed to keep the parent abreast of their child's progress? No, because the parent can log onto EdLine and view the grades given, the actual papers don't need to be returned. At our school there are no papers in any case .

Samson is asking for above and beyond, when he could simply log onto EdLine, or whatever they call it where he lives, and examine his child's grades at ANY time.

 

[Samson]

At our school there are no papers in any case ..

Why?

 

[ConHog]

I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.

And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school. That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced. If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.

You'll notice that NOWHERE in this entire thread do I "threaten" anyone.

But, if there's no other defence for stupidity, I guess you must fabricate SOMETHING.

Oh, but you HAVE threatened, you threaten legal action if nothing else. Not to mention that you are taking away from time needed to teach other children when you are occupying a teacher with your unreasonable demands.

You still haven't answered. How much time do you spend volunteering at your school? Perhaps you could take upon yourself to spend an hour a week at the school helping hand out papers to be returned to concerned parents, if it's so important to you.

I'll say it again, log onto your online grade sheet and check his damned grades once a week, that is ALL your entitled to.

The alternative of course is that you can run for school board and then you get to help set policy for your school, but I have a feeling that you aren't actually interested in DOING anything.

 

[ConHog]

At our school there are no papers in any case ..

Why?

Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.

 

[Samson]

At our school there are no papers in any case ..

Why?

Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.

Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

Not sure what this means: if there's nothing to return to parents, then it wouldn't be accessable online. And vice versa.

However, the case is: Only the gradebook is accessable.

How do you know that, "So far it's working out really well?"

 

[Samson]

Oh, but you HAVE threatened, you threaten legal action if nothing else. Not to mention that you are taking away from time needed to teach other children when you are occupying a teacher with your unreasonable demands.

I haven't threatened anyone with legal action, idiot: I said that I WOULD IF there was a need IF the school expelled my kid without very careful documentation.

I've not been told by anyone, but you, that I'm "taking away from time needed to teach other children when you are occupying a teacher with your unreasonable demands." You know why? Because anyone with any brains knows how absurd the accusation would be.

But, like I said I suppose if you haven't a reasonable excuse for being incompetent, then you begin to make shit up: It would take me about 5 minutes to walk out of a School Board Meeting with your head under my arm.

 

[kwc57]

Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.

Bullshit! He's asking to see the measured work of what his child is being taught.

No. The childs final grades are a "measured work of what his child is being taught". Samson is DEMANDING more than just a final grade

Samson has been clear that he will accept no less than one graded assignment from every teacher every week. Why reword it into some"glittering generality" when the specifics are so clear?

Glittering generalities

You sir or madam or idiot or whatever you are are a moron and obviously childless. The child's final grade is made up of all the graded assignments made thru the year. You are aware that many schools send home progress reports about every nine weeks and report cards at the end of semesters aren't you? That is all fine and wonderful, but imagine your surprise if we followed your method and your child brings home an F at year end and has to repeat the year again. Wanting to know how your child is doing along the way to the final grade is natural and normal and has been the standard way of doing things.

 

[kwc57]

At our school there are no papers in any case ..

Why?

Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.

You miss the point conhog. Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story. You see a grade, but not the work. My son took pre-AP chemistry. Made an A. He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart. Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning". They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any. I believe you are a vet. Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon. Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched. That is what is going on in our schools today. Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class. Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely. Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.

 

[Samson]

Why?

Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.

You miss the point conhog. Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story. You see a grade, but not the work. My son took pre-AP chemistry. Made an A. He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart. Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning". They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any. I believe you are a vet. Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon. Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched. That is what is going on in our schools today. Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class. Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely. Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.

What amazes me is, that teachers, always under scrutiny, wouldn't WANT to produce as much evidence as possible that they're actually DOING THEIR JOB!!!

 

[Annie]

Well I've read through enough of 'no papers, totally digital,' Samson, did you ever get the superintendent's or board's response? I'm hoping it's reasonable?

 

[ConHog]

Why?

Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.

You miss the point conhog. Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story. You see a grade, but not the work. My son took pre-AP chemistry. Made an A. He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart. Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning". They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any. I believe you are a vet. Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon. Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched. That is what is going on in our schools today. Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class. Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely. Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.

Perhaps you missed my description of our system. You as a parent could at anytime of day or night log onto our secure network and view the entire curriculum of any of your child's classes. That means all of the homework and all of the tests, not just a grade but the actual digital "papers." Further you as a parent could even log on and watch your child do their homework or take a test if you wish. On a separate part of the network we have every single class in our high school being watched by internet capable cameras, all of our parents are given access to THAT system as well. They can log in and watch the class if they wish. Come January they will be able to log in and watch the cameras on their child's bus if they wish.

I personally don't even have a problem if a parent wants to come sit in and observe a class, and any teacher that balked would be over ridden and not have a say in the matter, but that parent certainly better show due respect to the teacher.

As far as determining if your child is learning the material, that is what exams are for.

You are absolutely right, you DO have a right to know what your child is being taught and how; what you do NOT have a right to do is disrupt and distract teaching professionals from doing their jobs. There is a procedure to follow if you have a complaint. Go to the teacher, if they can't resolve to your satisfaction, go to to the principal, then to the superintendent, then to the local school board, then to the state school board, and if after all that you are still not satisfied. I would recommend suing. I would also offer you good luck.

The truth is no principal is going to just refuse a respectful request from a parent. I can tell Samson quickly went to "defcon one" though and no one is going to cooperate with an asshole.

And finally and frankly, how dumb of a tenth grader do you have if he isn't capable of articulating to you how well he is doing in each course without a graded paper returned home every week? I don't think ANY tenth grader is that dumb.

Also, note that although Samson alluded to an electronic grade book being available, he never stated that he utilizes it, and he has thus far refused to answer my reasonable question as to whether he is ever at his kids' school except to complain........

 

[Samson]

Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.

You miss the point conhog. Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story. You see a grade, but not the work. My son took pre-AP chemistry. Made an A. He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart. Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning". They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any. I believe you are a vet. Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon. Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched. That is what is going on in our schools today. Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class. Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely. Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.

Perhaps you missed my description of our system. You as a parent could at anytime of day or night log onto our secure network and view the entire curriculum of any of your child's classes. That means all of the homework and all of the tests, not just a grade but the actual digital "papers." Further you as a parent could even log on and watch your child do their homework or take a test if you wish. On a separate part of the network we have every single class in our high school being watched by internet capable cameras, all of our parents are given access to THAT system as well. They can log in and watch the class if they wish. Come January they will be able to log in and watch the cameras on their child's bus if they wish.

I personally don't even have a problem if a parent wants to come sit in and observe a class, and any teacher that balked would be over ridden and not have a say in the matter, but that parent certainly better show due respect to the teacher.

As far as determining if your child is learning the material, that is what exams are for.

You are absolutely right, you DO have a right to know what your child is being taught and how; what you do NOT have a right to do is disrupt and distract teaching professionals from doing their jobs. There is a procedure to follow if you have a complaint. Go to the teacher, if they can't resolve to your satisfaction, go to to the principal, then to the superintendent, then to the local school board, then to the state school board, and if after all that you are still not satisfied. I would recommend suing. I would also offer you good luck.

The truth is no principal is going to just refuse a respectful request from a parent. I can tell Samson quickly went to "defcon one" though and no one is going to cooperate with an asshole.

And finally and frankly, how dumb of a tenth grader do you have if he isn't capable of articulating to you how well he is doing in each course without a graded paper returned home every week? I don't think ANY tenth grader is that dumb.

Also, note that although Samson alluded to an electronic grade book being available, he never stated that he utilizes it, and he has thus far refused to answer my reasonable question as to whether he is ever at his kids' school except to complain........

I guess my 10th grader is relatively dumb, huh conhog?

Make you feel like you know wtf your taking about now?

I'll be happy to answer your nonsequitur questions, as soon as you've answered mine: You ave never taught have you? Otherwise, you'd know that MOST 10th graders are relatively dumb. You're a pretty pathetic example of school leadership if there's any truth to the claim that you actually have any authority over any public school.

At any rate, I'm through with your trolling the thread: First you make ridiculous accusations about my "threatening" anyone. Then you fail to know that I've made several comments regarding the online gradebook's inadequacy: Obviously, I've seen it.

Just as obviously, you don't seem to have even the minimum qualification to evaluate this situation.

 

[Samson]

Well I've read through enough of 'no papers, totally digital,' Samson, did you ever get the superintendent's or board's response? I'm hoping it's reasonable?

I'll go pick-up the Principal's report to the District Monday. I'm wondering why they didn't mail it? I suspect they're waiting to see how I respond to it before they send it to the District.