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" I have a right not to be infected "..... Um...no... you don't actually have that right....it does not exist.

justoffal

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The non existent claim of “ right not to be infected “ simply does not exist. I mention this because it has been

Championed by the collectivist society as the spear head of their reasoning to remove everyone else’s choice in the matter. So let’s examine this position offered out by the totalitarian left.

First let me say that I have some sympathy for the position….and I understand the fears and compulsions that lead to that position. However life is not simply a chain of actions and reactions governed by our fears and compulsions…if it was non of us would live past our first few decades and we certainly would have no form of functioning society.

To illustrate let’s take a common activity….. Driving for instance. We all have a right to be safe on the road but non of us ever truly are. There is always a common risk when you get behind the wheel and drive someplace. The common risk is accepted as the necessary entropy so to speak required to allow the activity to exist which everyone does agree is an important function. Continuous and progressive applications of risk aversion elements in this particular life function would quickly and permanently eliminate the possibility of driving anywhere at any time for anything using any kind of vehicle. You can see immediately where the problem lies here. So the right to be safe on the road does not translate into the absolute value of the function (in this case driving) to the point where it eliminates the function altogether and in a sense that right is only an inferred right. It does not actually exist.

Let’s repeat that once more for emphasis…. It does not actually exist ….. you more or less give it up when you agree to get a driver’s license and purchase vehicle insurance for your car. You are paying to be involved in that risk so that you can benefit from the transportation that you would suffer without otherwise. It’s an unavoidable trade off.

Similarly with human society….we are agreeing to the risks of living in an organized culture so that we can benefit from the group effort that builds cities, highways, food stores, pharmacies, police and fire systems and so forth. As with any activity, driving included…..there are common risks that cannot be eliminated without eliminating the entire system. Contagion is one of them. “The right not to be infected “ is an impossible right to enforce on any reasonable level. It’s a reverse right, a misnomer…..and is in fact not a right at all. It does not exist.

If that were the case we would have to make the common cold illegal. While nothing prevents our adventurous legislators from trying that….they might as well legislate against the next eclipse for all the good such a law would do them. The perception that another person who is unvaccinated is violating our rights is a dead end. It has no measureable parameters and is inseparably integrated into the set of rules that we agree to vicariously when we consciously decide to be a member of society rather than to live on the outskirts of civilization in a cave someplace chasing down small rodents for protein.

This happened during a heated discussion with some fellow employees …. Spontaneously….. “ I have a right not to be infected “….was the statement made to me….. My response was: “ There is no such right because it’s not actually a right“….. end of story.



JO
 

surada

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The non existent claim of “ right not to be infected “ simply does not exist. I mention this because it has been

Championed by the collectivist society as the spear head of their reasoning to remove everyone else’s choice in the matter. So let’s examine this position offered out by the totalitarian left.

First let me say that I have some sympathy for the position….and I understand the fears and compulsions that lead to that position. However life is not simply a chain of actions and reactions governed by our fears and compulsions…if it was non of us would live past our first few decades and we certainly would have no form of functioning society.

To illustrate let’s take a common activity….. Driving for instance. We all have a right to be safe on the road but non of us ever truly are. There is always a common risk when you get behind the wheel and drive someplace. The common risk is accepted as the necessary entropy so to speak required to allow the activity to exist which everyone does agree is an important function. Continuous and progressive applications of risk aversion elements in this particular life function would quickly and permanently eliminate the possibility of driving anywhere at any time for anything using any kind of vehicle. You can see immediately where the problem lies here. So the right to be safe on the road does not translate into the absolute value of the function (in this case driving) to the point where it eliminates the function altogether and in a sense that right is only an inferred right. It does not actually exist.

Let’s repeat that once more for emphasis…. It does not actually exist ….. you more or less give it up when you agree to get a driver’s license and purchase vehicle insurance for your car. You are paying to be involved in that risk so that you can benefit from the transportation that you would suffer without otherwise. It’s an unavoidable trade off.

Similarly with human society….we are agreeing to the risks of living in an organized culture so that we can benefit from the group effort that builds cities, highways, food stores, pharmacies, police and fire systems and so forth. As with any activity, driving included…..there are common risks that cannot be eliminated without eliminating the entire system. Contagion is one of them. “The right not to be infected “ is an impossible right to enforce on any reasonable level. It’s a reverse right, a misnomer…..and is in fact not a right at all. It does not exist.

If that were the case we would have to make the common cold illegal. While nothing prevents our adventurous legislators from trying that….they might as well legislate against the next eclipse for all the good such a law would do them. The perception that another person who is unvaccinated is violating our rights is a dead end. It has no measureable parameters and is inseparably integrated into the set of rules that we agree to vicariously when we consciously decide to be a member of society rather than to live on the outskirts of civilization in a cave someplace chasing down small rodents for protein.

This happened during a heated discussion with some fellow employees …. Spontaneously….. “ I have a right not to be infected “….was the statement made to me….. My response was: “ There is no such right because it’s not actually a right“….. end of story.



JO


Back in the day if you crossed the Yellow Fever Quarantine Line, they would shoot you.
 

Obiwan

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Back in the day if you crossed the Yellow Fever Quarantine Line, they would shoot you.
So, since the people that have been vaccinated can catch and spread the virus (even unknowingly, since they claim the jab can reduce the symptoms), when does the season open, and what's the bag limit????
 
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mudwhistle

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Back in the day if you crossed the Yellow Fever Quarantine Line, they would shoot you.
So then maybe that's how we should deal with possibly infected illegals trying to spread diseases all over the US, with the help of the Biden Administration or course.
 

candycorn

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The non existent claim of “ right not to be infected “ simply does not exist. I mention this because it has been

Championed by the collectivist society as the spear head of their reasoning to remove everyone else’s choice in the matter. So let’s examine this position offered out by the totalitarian left.

First let me say that I have some sympathy for the position….and I understand the fears and compulsions that lead to that position. However life is not simply a chain of actions and reactions governed by our fears and compulsions…if it was non of us would live past our first few decades and we certainly would have no form of functioning society.

To illustrate let’s take a common activity….. Driving for instance. We all have a right to be safe on the road but non of us ever truly are. There is always a common risk when you get behind the wheel and drive someplace. The common risk is accepted as the necessary entropy so to speak required to allow the activity to exist which everyone does agree is an important function. Continuous and progressive applications of risk aversion elements in this particular life function would quickly and permanently eliminate the possibility of driving anywhere at any time for anything using any kind of vehicle. You can see immediately where the problem lies here. So the right to be safe on the road does not translate into the absolute value of the function (in this case driving) to the point where it eliminates the function altogether and in a sense that right is only an inferred right. It does not actually exist.

Let’s repeat that once more for emphasis…. It does not actually exist ….. you more or less give it up when you agree to get a driver’s license and purchase vehicle insurance for your car. You are paying to be involved in that risk so that you can benefit from the transportation that you would suffer without otherwise. It’s an unavoidable trade off.

Similarly with human society….we are agreeing to the risks of living in an organized culture so that we can benefit from the group effort that builds cities, highways, food stores, pharmacies, police and fire systems and so forth. As with any activity, driving included…..there are common risks that cannot be eliminated without eliminating the entire system. Contagion is one of them. “The right not to be infected “ is an impossible right to enforce on any reasonable level. It’s a reverse right, a misnomer…..and is in fact not a right at all. It does not exist.

If that were the case we would have to make the common cold illegal. While nothing prevents our adventurous legislators from trying that….they might as well legislate against the next eclipse for all the good such a law would do them. The perception that another person who is unvaccinated is violating our rights is a dead end. It has no measureable parameters and is inseparably integrated into the set of rules that we agree to vicariously when we consciously decide to be a member of society rather than to live on the outskirts of civilization in a cave someplace chasing down small rodents for protein.

This happened during a heated discussion with some fellow employees …. Spontaneously….. “ I have a right not to be infected “….was the statement made to me….. My response was: “ There is no such right because it’s not actually a right“….. end of story.



JO
So what if you don't have a driver's license and are taking the bus. You don't have the right to safety? When did you give up that right

"Let’s repeat that once more for emphasis…. It does not actually exist ….. you more or less give it up when you agree to get a driver’s license and purchase vehicle insurance for your car. You are paying to be involved in that risk so that you can benefit from the transportation that you would suffer without otherwise. It’s an unavoidable trade off."

Let me guess...somehow the argument will shift to "knowing you're at risk".
 
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justoffal

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Back in the day if you crossed the Yellow Fever Quarantine Line, they would shoot you.
Yep....so start shooting your unvaccinated co workers ...you should be good.
 
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justoffal

justoffal

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So what if you don't have a driver's license and are taking the bus. You don't have the right to safety? When did you give up that right

"Let’s repeat that once more for emphasis…. It does not actually exist ….. you more or less give it up when you agree to get a driver’s license and purchase vehicle insurance for your car. You are paying to be involved in that risk so that you can benefit from the transportation that you would suffer without otherwise. It’s an unavoidable trade off."

Let me guess...somehow the argument will shift to "knowing you're at risk".
So what if you don't have a driver's license and are taking the bus. You don't have the right to safety? When did you give up that right

You walked out your front door on the way to the bus stop didn't you? nuff said.
 

occupied

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You have the responsibility to stay away from others if you are infectious. We as citizens have a reasonable expectation that our fellow citizens are taking reasonable precautions not to infect others. Governments have the responsibility and the legal power to defend public health. It's not exactly a right not to be infected but you certainly have no right to endanger public health.
 

SweetSue92

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The non existent claim of “ right not to be infected “ simply does not exist. I mention this because it has been

Championed by the collectivist society as the spear head of their reasoning to remove everyone else’s choice in the matter. So let’s examine this position offered out by the totalitarian left.

First let me say that I have some sympathy for the position….and I understand the fears and compulsions that lead to that position. However life is not simply a chain of actions and reactions governed by our fears and compulsions…if it was non of us would live past our first few decades and we certainly would have no form of functioning society.

To illustrate let’s take a common activity….. Driving for instance. We all have a right to be safe on the road but non of us ever truly are. There is always a common risk when you get behind the wheel and drive someplace. The common risk is accepted as the necessary entropy so to speak required to allow the activity to exist which everyone does agree is an important function. Continuous and progressive applications of risk aversion elements in this particular life function would quickly and permanently eliminate the possibility of driving anywhere at any time for anything using any kind of vehicle. You can see immediately where the problem lies here. So the right to be safe on the road does not translate into the absolute value of the function (in this case driving) to the point where it eliminates the function altogether and in a sense that right is only an inferred right. It does not actually exist.

Let’s repeat that once more for emphasis…. It does not actually exist ….. you more or less give it up when you agree to get a driver’s license and purchase vehicle insurance for your car. You are paying to be involved in that risk so that you can benefit from the transportation that you would suffer without otherwise. It’s an unavoidable trade off.

Similarly with human society….we are agreeing to the risks of living in an organized culture so that we can benefit from the group effort that builds cities, highways, food stores, pharmacies, police and fire systems and so forth. As with any activity, driving included…..there are common risks that cannot be eliminated without eliminating the entire system. Contagion is one of them. “The right not to be infected “ is an impossible right to enforce on any reasonable level. It’s a reverse right, a misnomer…..and is in fact not a right at all. It does not exist.

If that were the case we would have to make the common cold illegal. While nothing prevents our adventurous legislators from trying that….they might as well legislate against the next eclipse for all the good such a law would do them. The perception that another person who is unvaccinated is violating our rights is a dead end. It has no measureable parameters and is inseparably integrated into the set of rules that we agree to vicariously when we consciously decide to be a member of society rather than to live on the outskirts of civilization in a cave someplace chasing down small rodents for protein.

This happened during a heated discussion with some fellow employees …. Spontaneously….. “ I have a right not to be infected “….was the statement made to me….. My response was: “ There is no such right because it’s not actually a right“….. end of story.



JO

To these people I say

Your neurotic fear is your business

And has no right to rule MY life. If you choose to let it rule YOUR life, keep all that business over there. It won't rule mine.
 

Maxdeath

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You can move that whole right into the waste basket. When you go to the grocery store you accept the fact you may buy any number of items that could be dangerous. From pesticides, to heavy metals even salmonella. Walking there you take a risk of getting hit by a car, a stray bullet, bitten by a passing dog.
The right to not be infected is a complete joke.
next it will be a right to housing, a right to transportation, a right to anything and everything with no one taking responsibility for anything.
 

SweetSue92

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You have the responsibility to stay away from others if you are infectious. We as citizens have a reasonable expectation that our fellow citizens are taking reasonable precautions not to infect others. Governments have the responsibility and the legal power to defend public health. It's not exactly a right not to be infected but you certainly have no right to endanger public health.

Wonderful. So, nearly two years later, and a boatload of collateral damage that keeps me up at night (really). And we are back to "you have a responsibility to stay away from others if you are infectious".

Right. Like grandma said. Stay home if you are sick. Wash your hands.

Fantastic.
 
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justoffal

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To these people I say

Your neurotic fear is your business

And has no right to rule MY life. If you choose to let it rule YOUR life, keep all that business over there. It won't rule mine.
To these people I say

Your neurotic fear is your business

And has no right to rule MY life. If you choose to let it rule YOUR life, keep all that business over there. It won't rule mine.

HUZZAH! SPOT ON ALL DAY LONG!
 
OP
justoffal

justoffal

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You have the responsibility to stay away from others if you are infectious. We as citizens have a reasonable expectation that our fellow citizens are taking reasonable precautions not to infect others. Governments have the responsibility and the legal power to defend public health. It's not exactly a right not to be infected but you certainly have no right to endanger public health.
You are always infectious at some level and will never be otherwise as long as you take a breath.
After you stop breathing you will still be infectious for several months. You are free to start that process now however..... I choose not to'

JO
 

Bobob

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The non existent claim of “ right not to be infected “ simply does not exist. I mention this because it has been

Championed by the collectivist society as the spear head of their reasoning to remove everyone else’s choice in the matter. So let’s examine this position offered out by the totalitarian left.

First let me say that I have some sympathy for the position….and I understand the fears and compulsions that lead to that position. However life is not simply a chain of actions and reactions governed by our fears and compulsions…if it was non of us would live past our first few decades and we certainly would have no form of functioning society.

To illustrate let’s take a common activity….. Driving for instance. We all have a right to be safe on the road but non of us ever truly are. There is always a common risk when you get behind the wheel and drive someplace. The common risk is accepted as the necessary entropy so to speak required to allow the activity to exist which everyone does agree is an important function. Continuous and progressive applications of risk aversion elements in this particular life function would quickly and permanently eliminate the possibility of driving anywhere at any time for anything using any kind of vehicle. You can see immediately where the problem lies here. So the right to be safe on the road does not translate into the absolute value of the function (in this case driving) to the point where it eliminates the function altogether and in a sense that right is only an inferred right. It does not actually exist.

Let’s repeat that once more for emphasis…. It does not actually exist ….. you more or less give it up when you agree to get a driver’s license and purchase vehicle insurance for your car. You are paying to be involved in that risk so that you can benefit from the transportation that you would suffer without otherwise. It’s an unavoidable trade off.

Similarly with human society….we are agreeing to the risks of living in an organized culture so that we can benefit from the group effort that builds cities, highways, food stores, pharmacies, police and fire systems and so forth. As with any activity, driving included…..there are common risks that cannot be eliminated without eliminating the entire system. Contagion is one of them. “The right not to be infected “ is an impossible right to enforce on any reasonable level. It’s a reverse right, a misnomer…..and is in fact not a right at all. It does not exist.

If that were the case we would have to make the common cold illegal. While nothing prevents our adventurous legislators from trying that….they might as well legislate against the next eclipse for all the good such a law would do them. The perception that another person who is unvaccinated is violating our rights is a dead end. It has no measureable parameters and is inseparably integrated into the set of rules that we agree to vicariously when we consciously decide to be a member of society rather than to live on the outskirts of civilization in a cave someplace chasing down small rodents for protein.

This happened during a heated discussion with some fellow employees …. Spontaneously….. “ I have a right not to be infected “….was the statement made to me….. My response was: “ There is no such right because it’s not actually a right“….. end of story.



JO
You do not have the right to cause injury to others while exercising your rights. If you cause injury to others while driving a car, there is a price to pay. My view is that the vaccine mandate will not be successful. However, employers, business owners, and health insurance companies also have rights
which they can exercise to keep their customers and employees safe from infection by you.
 

rightwinger

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To these people I say

Your neurotic fear is your business

And has no right to rule MY life. If you choose to let it rule YOUR life, keep all that business over there. It won't rule mine.
You have no right to infect other people

If you choose to be infected, you need to be isolated from responsible people
 

Maxdeath

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Wonderful. So, nearly two years later, and a boatload of collateral damage that keeps me up at night (really). And we are back to "you have a responsibility to stay away from others if you are infectious".

Right. Like grandma said. Stay home if you are sick. Wash your hands.

Fantastic.
And some how they seem to miss a number of important parts. Not everyone is aware that they have become infected until later on. Not even being vaccinated is a guarantee that you are not passing the virus around.
If they want to look back some of their most valued leaders were calling a travel ban a stupid idea. They were suggesting everyone come out and party. They we’re saying that they would not accept a vaccine developed under Trump. Now suddenly these same leaders are giving the be all end all advise.
 

OhPleaseJustQuit

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To these people I say

Your neurotic fear is your business

And has no right to rule MY life. If you choose to let it rule YOUR life, keep all that business over there. It won't rule mine.

HUZZAH! SPOT ON ALL DAY LONG!
The person who wants to not be exposed to pathogens needs to carry their own six foot stick. I have way too much in my own hands to carry your stick. Don't like it? Stay the fuck home.
 

occupied

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You are always infectious at some level and will never be otherwise as long as you take a breath.
After you stop breathing you will still be infectious for several months. You are free to start that process now however..... I choose not to'

JO
Through all of this there have been a core group of Americans who apparently cannot grasp the concept of public responsibility. Seems simple to most people that you don't walk around like Typhoid Mary spreading disease. Your individual liberty does not trump public safety. Never has, never will. You have a duty to your fellow citizens not to recklessly endanger them.
 

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