CDZ I challenge your views about Islam

[PhilosphyBeforeParty]

All I have to say is, I have heard of no credible Christian or Jew calling for the elimination of all "non-beleivers" for... oh we'll just round it to be 500 years or so. Look in any major newspaper and it doesn't take long to find a Muslim stating just that. So, are the stereotypes justified and accurate? No. Are they understandable? Um, yes, and until the non-exteremists within the Islamic faith stand up united and cast out those calling for jihad, the problem WILL persist, stereotypes or no. The problem is not the stereotypes, though they are a problem, the REAL problem is the exteremists calling for jihad. Period, end of story.

They do. People ignore it.

Really, I have not heard any. Can you name one?

while it may be true that on the surface the problem is Muslim extremists, that problem can only be solved by eliminating the causes of terrorism, none of which are Islam.

I guess I am wrong to beleive that Islamic Jihad is related to Islam then. Wow, I am such a fool.

is Islamic jihad, at least as it is viewed by the vast majority of Muslims, is the responsibility to maintain the religion, meaning to practice it faithfully and PEACEFULLY preach it. every religion, with he exception of Buddhism and Taoism, teaches this. it is only the fanatics (who would arise wherever there is turmoil like in the middle east) who twist it practically beyond recognition who think that all nonbelievers need to be killed. a similar situation can be observed in Europe in its dark ages. the political and social Turmoil caused by the collapse of the roman empire led to a society that was basically a bunch of ISISes fighting with each other.

 

[Indofred]

I am assuming

Usually, yes.
I know thousands of Muslims, but none are terrorists.
I did meet a few, but Muslim policemen shot them dead.
I know thousands of Muslims, but none wear full coverings, save a few but the local women call them, "Terrorist's wives" and they're excluded from normal society.
I know thousands of Muslims, but none carry a gun, except the police, military and a few private gun owners.
I know thousands of Muslims, but none beat their wife, save one and no one would talk to him because they thought he was the scum of the earth.
I know thousands of Muslims, including many young girls who all attend school because the law insists on girls getting a full and equal education to boys.
I know thousands of Muslims, but none who want to hurt anyone.
I seen thousands of Muslims attending festival days in Bodobudur temple.

The stereotypes created by hate filled people are true of some Muslims, but not of the vast majority.

 

[irosie91]

All I have to say is, I have heard of no credible Christian or Jew calling for the elimination of all "non-beleivers" for... oh we'll just round it to be 500 years or so. Look in any major newspaper and it doesn't take long to find a Muslim stating just that. So, are the stereotypes justified and accurate? No. Are they understandable? Um, yes, and until the non-exteremists within the Islamic faith stand up united and cast out those calling for jihad, the problem WILL persist, stereotypes or no. The problem is not the stereotypes, though they are a problem, the REAL problem is the exteremists calling for jihad. Period, end of story.

They do. People ignore it.

Really, I have not heard any. Can you name one?

Google it. Honestly, in so many threads I've brought up examples - it gets old. Google Muslims denounce extremism or violence - usually gets a lot of hits.

There is a new criterion for "truth"-------the " NUMBER OF HITS" criterion------
it is based on how many propagandaists have repeated THE LIE, how many times. The concept developed out of the wise saying of the greatest hero of propaganda----Josef Goebbels------"If you tell a lie big enough and keep
repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" remember now----
Islamic terrorism does not exist
Goebbels who stated-----

 

[anotherlife]

All I have to say is, I have heard of no credible Christian or Jew calling for the elimination of all "non-beleivers" for... oh we'll just round it to be 500 years or so. Look in any major newspaper and it doesn't take long to find a Muslim stating just that. So, are the stereotypes justified and accurate? No. Are they understandable? Um, yes, and until the non-exteremists within the Islamic faith stand up united and cast out those calling for jihad, the problem WILL persist, stereotypes or no. The problem is not the stereotypes, though they are a problem, the REAL problem is the exteremists calling for jihad. Period, end of story.

They do. People ignore it.

Really, I have not heard any. Can you name one?

Google it. Honestly, in so many threads I've brought up examples - it gets old. Google Muslims denounce extremism or violence - usually gets a lot of hits.

There is a new criterion for "truth"-------the " NUMBER OF HITS" criterion------
it is based on how many propagandaists have repeated THE LIE, how many times. The concept developed out of the wise saying of the greatest hero of propaganda----Josef Goebbels------"If you tell a lie big enough and keep
repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" remember now----
Islamic terrorism does not exist
Goebbels who stated-----

No, the liberals started it. Way back in the 19th century, for the purpose of putting the Jew bankers above everything in this world, even above God. Sadly, they have succeeded. But even that was not new. The founding father of modern politician/financial advertising is the Vatican, that sold all the redemption tickets in the 16th century, with the slogan "hear your penny kaching, with heaven's gate kaching" ... when it opens to your dead relative for whom you bought the ticket. Most buildings and artwork in the Vatican were built on that money.

 

[Coyote]

All I have to say is, I have heard of no credible Christian or Jew calling for the elimination of all "non-beleivers" for... oh we'll just round it to be 500 years or so. Look in any major newspaper and it doesn't take long to find a Muslim stating just that. So, are the stereotypes justified and accurate? No. Are they understandable? Um, yes, and until the non-exteremists within the Islamic faith stand up united and cast out those calling for jihad, the problem WILL persist, stereotypes or no. The problem is not the stereotypes, though they are a problem, the REAL problem is the exteremists calling for jihad. Period, end of story.

They do. People ignore it.

Really, I have not heard any. Can you name one?

Google it. Honestly, in so many threads I've brought up examples - it gets old. Google Muslims denounce extremism or violence - usually gets a lot of hits.

There is a new criterion for "truth"-------the " NUMBER OF HITS" criterion------
it is based on how many propagandaists have repeated THE LIE, how many times. The concept developed out of the wise saying of the greatest hero of propaganda----Josef Goebbels------"If you tell a lie big enough and keep
repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" remember now----
Islamic terrorism does not exist
Goebbels who stated-----

It has nothing to do with "number of hits" - it's finding information through a search engine. It's out there and easy to find.

 

[Ringel05]

I don't have a problem with Muslims in general, I have a problem with violent radical zealots no matter who they are or what they represent.

 

[anotherlife]

I don't have a problem with Muslims in general, I have a problem with violent radical zealots no matter who they are or what they represent.

How about this. The violent zealots do an important work, namely the reduction of world population under 500 million as per the officially published Agenda 21.

 

[Ringel05]

I don't have a problem with Muslims in general, I have a problem with violent radical zealots no matter who they are or what they represent.

How about this. The violent zealots do an important work, namely the reduction of world population under 500 million as per the officially published Agenda 21.

Ah, a conspiracy theorist....... Got it.......

 

[anotherlife]

I don't have a problem with Muslims in general, I have a problem with violent radical zealots no matter who they are or what they represent.

How about this. The violent zealots do an important work, namely the reduction of world population under 500 million as per the officially published Agenda 21.

Ah, a conspiracy theorist....... Got it.......

Do you know how it feels to swing a machete around and cut people's heads off? We liberals hold, that you don't have a right to your opinion unless you tried it, lived in it, and were in its shoes. Hehehe. It cures impotence. Hehehe.
(* sarcasm*)

 

[320 Years of History]

Are these the Muslims you know?



As with all CDZ threads, this is intended for serious discussion, not mud slinging.

In terms of being committed to Islam, yes. In terms of how they dress or where they choose to express their faith, no.

 

[Arianrhod]

Muslims are the lowest of the low. They are the world wide leaders in hate, murder and all around oppression. You think a couple pics and vids of Muslims not living their religion is going to change that reality and make us love them?

In what way do you feel they're not living their religion?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Muslims are the lowest of the low. They are the world wide leaders in hate, murder and all around oppression. You think a couple pics and vids of Muslims not living their religion is going to change that reality and make us love them?

In what way do you feel they're not living their religion?

Smoking for one.

 

[Arianrhod]

Muslims are the lowest of the low. They are the world wide leaders in hate, murder and all around oppression. You think a couple pics and vids of Muslims not living their religion is going to change that reality and make us love them?

In what way do you feel they're not living their religion?

Smoking for one.

For obvious reasons there is nothing in the Quran that forbids it; therefore whether or not it is considered haraam is a matter of contemporary interpretation.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Muslims are the lowest of the low. They are the world wide leaders in hate, murder and all around oppression. You think a couple pics and vids of Muslims not living their religion is going to change that reality and make us love them?

In what way do you feel they're not living their religion?

Smoking for one.

For obvious reasons there is nothing in the Quran that forbids it; therefore whether or not it is considered haraam is a matter of contemporary interpretation.

Your Islamic contemporaries disagree:

Is Smoking Allowed in Islam?
What Does Islam Say About Smoking?
The reason why smoking is haraam - islamqa.info

 

[Arianrhod]

Muslims are the lowest of the low. They are the world wide leaders in hate, murder and all around oppression. You think a couple pics and vids of Muslims not living their religion is going to change that reality and make us love them?

In what way do you feel they're not living their religion?

Smoking for one.

For obvious reasons there is nothing in the Quran that forbids it; therefore whether or not it is considered haraam is a matter of contemporary interpretation.

Your Islamic contemporaries disagree:

Is Smoking Allowed in Islam?
What Does Islam Say About Smoking?
The reason why smoking is haraam - islamqa.info

Mormons are forbidden to drink coffee. Plenty of Christian sects forbid alcohol and dancing and playing cards. Interpretation.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Muslims are the lowest of the low. They are the world wide leaders in hate, murder and all around oppression. You think a couple pics and vids of Muslims not living their religion is going to change that reality and make us love them?

In what way do you feel they're not living their religion?

Smoking for one.

For obvious reasons there is nothing in the Quran that forbids it; therefore whether or not it is considered haraam is a matter of contemporary interpretation.

Your Islamic contemporaries disagree:

Is Smoking Allowed in Islam?
What Does Islam Say About Smoking?
The reason why smoking is haraam - islamqa.info

Mormons are forbidden to drink coffee. Plenty of Christian sects forbid alcohol and dancing and playing cards. Interpretation.

I don't think you've interpreted more than rationalized. The Q'ran clearly forbitd activities that harm the body. Smoking would certainly qualify.

 

[Arianrhod]

In what way do you feel they're not living their religion?

Smoking for one.

For obvious reasons there is nothing in the Quran that forbids it; therefore whether or not it is considered haraam is a matter of contemporary interpretation.

Your Islamic contemporaries disagree:

Is Smoking Allowed in Islam?
What Does Islam Say About Smoking?
The reason why smoking is haraam - islamqa.info

Mormons are forbidden to drink coffee. Plenty of Christian sects forbid alcohol and dancing and playing cards. Interpretation.

I don't think you've interpreted more than rationalized. The Q'ran clearly forbitd activities that harm the body. Smoking would certainly qualify.

If you were Muslim, I'd accept your rationalization as something that was suitable to your life view. But because you aren't, I suspect this is smokescreen for your real objection, which is that the people in those videos don't fit your assumption that all Muslims fit a very narrow stereotype. And if you had to abandon that stereotype, you'd have to rethink your view of Muslims.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Smoking for one.

For obvious reasons there is nothing in the Quran that forbids it; therefore whether or not it is considered haraam is a matter of contemporary interpretation.

Your Islamic contemporaries disagree:

Is Smoking Allowed in Islam?
What Does Islam Say About Smoking?
The reason why smoking is haraam - islamqa.info

Mormons are forbidden to drink coffee. Plenty of Christian sects forbid alcohol and dancing and playing cards. Interpretation.

I don't think you've interpreted more than rationalized. The Q'ran clearly forbitd activities that harm the body. Smoking would certainly qualify.

If you were Muslim, I'd accept your rationalization as something that was suitable to your life view. But because you aren't, I suspect this is smokescreen for your real objection, which is that the people in those videos don't fit your assumption that all Muslims fit a very narrow stereotype. And if you had to abandon that stereotype, you'd have to rethink your view of Muslims.

That's fallacious thinking. My viewpoint is not correct or incorrect based upon a personal decision. And your stereotype argument is further fallacious on all fronts.

 

[Arianrhod]

For obvious reasons there is nothing in the Quran that forbids it; therefore whether or not it is considered haraam is a matter of contemporary interpretation.

Your Islamic contemporaries disagree:

Is Smoking Allowed in Islam?
What Does Islam Say About Smoking?
The reason why smoking is haraam - islamqa.info

Mormons are forbidden to drink coffee. Plenty of Christian sects forbid alcohol and dancing and playing cards. Interpretation.

I don't think you've interpreted more than rationalized. The Q'ran clearly forbitd activities that harm the body. Smoking would certainly qualify.

If you were Muslim, I'd accept your rationalization as something that was suitable to your life view. But because you aren't, I suspect this is smokescreen for your real objection, which is that the people in those videos don't fit your assumption that all Muslims fit a very narrow stereotype. And if you had to abandon that stereotype, you'd have to rethink your view of Muslims.

That's fallacious thinking. My viewpoint is not correct or incorrect based upon a personal decision. And your stereotype argument is further fallacious on all fronts.

So you say. Make your case.

 

[320 Years of History]

If you were Muslim, I'd accept your rationalization as something that was suitable to your life view. But because you aren't, I suspect this is smokescreen for your real objection, which is that the people in those videos don't fit your assumption that all Muslims fit a very narrow stereotype. And if you had to abandon that stereotype, you'd have to rethink your view of Muslims.

That's fallacious thinking. My viewpoint is not correct or incorrect based upon a personal decision. And your stereotype argument is further fallacious on all fronts.

I don't care to support or refute either of your positions re: Muslims and Islam, but I did read the discussion. Just to be clear, Arianrhod didn't make an argument re: stereotypes. He stated what he believes to be the reason for the remarks you made. He didn't present an argument of any sort. Unless you are going to assert that he misrepresented what believes, that is, that he doesn't actually believe what he wrote, there's no way what he wrote can be fallacious, or more precisely, false. I can't imagine that you'll be able to demonstrate that he doesn't believe what he said he does.

Arianrhod also made a prediction about how your viewpoint would change were you to dispense with the stereotype that he asserts underpins your statements. HIs prediction can turn out to be false or true. It may be possible to show his prediction to be false or true, but to do either, you or someone would need to develop a very solid argument to show the outcome he predicted must necessarily, or not, come to pass. Frankly, it'd be a very hard one to develop because, for it to be highly acceptable, it'd require showing that you do or don't base your views on any stereotypical understanding and/or representations (generalizations) of Islam/Muslims. Better and easier would be to make the case that your expressed views do not depend on stereotypes.

Doing that effectively unavoidably would call for Arianrhod to alter his belief of why you've made the statements you have. It would also direct the discussion toward themes that lead to a more objectively attainable conclusion.