I am not Armenian...but....

[Sodafin]

Just for everyone's fyi, When Cortez ravaged through the Aztecs that doesn't really count as a genocide. it was a war. Doesn't matter who's side was right. I think genocide has more to do with a majority trying to wipe out a largely defenseless minority.

I agree it was not genocide because Cortez and Pisarro did not attempt to wipe out a particular ethnic group, but neither can it easily be called a war, because the Spanish side were generally the only side actually using force.

It was an invasion of the worst possible kind.

 

[JW Frogen]

[The the genocide of the American Indian in both N. America and S. America took place over several hundred years.

And was carried out exclusively by Christians..

No, actually that is not true, do you know about the Iroquois campaign of genocide against the Huron?

Most people don't.

And need we mention the word Aztec, one of the most bloody, imperialist, irrational societies of all time?

Welcome to history, there is enough guilt for everyone.

 

[Charles Stucker]

You are either an idiot or just plain stupid.

All of the European countries that came to the Americas to establish settlements or plunder resources were Christian.

I'll make it easy for you. Name ONE that wasn't ?

Pagan Norsemen - at L'Anse aux Meadows -

All permanent settlements were funded, founded, and populated by Christians.

No, there are several Asian enclaves in South America which were founded in the late 19th and early 20th century. Japan in particular had a large number of returning Japanese after WWII.

The Turks murdered all the Christians in their territory over a period of time. The Armenians were just one such group. The preference if the Islamic Turks for murdering Christians and Jews can be seen in the remaining Islamic Kurd population - If it was ethnic cleansing there would be no Kurds, but it was in truth religious massacres.

Every European country with a sizable Islamic minority seems to have excessive Islamic violence. If the governments fail to cave in to the demands of the Islamic minorities they use violence. The only answer seems to be to use the Islamic tactics of "ethnic" cleansing, which happens to include all the worshipers of a target religion. Only in this case Islam would be the religion.

If Islam continues to embrace violence then they deserve to be eliminated.

 

[Truthspeaker]

[The the genocide of the American Indian in both N. America and S. America took place over several hundred years.

And was carried out exclusively by Christians..

No, actually that is not true, do you know about the Iroquois campaign of genocide against the Huron?

Most people don't.

And need we mention the word Aztec, one of the most bloody, imperialist, irrational societies of all time?

Welcome to history, there is enough guilt for everyone.

What is also hilarious is the popular notion of historical "know-nots" that the Americas were a peaceful place prior to the arrival of white "Christians". I would argue that it was the bloodiest place in the entire world. There was such a struggle for power among the different warring tribes that the Spanish conquest was no more than an addition of another tribe seeking to make a name for itself. They just happened to be the latest victors.
No where and I say this carefully with knowledge of the bloodshed on other continents, but NOWHERE was there a more bloody and warlike society than the new world from 200AD till the end of the Civil War.

 

[Truthspeaker]

But let's not get derailed too far off track. Are there any Turks here on this board who would like to admit or deny the occurance of said Genocide?

 

[Kalam]

No, there are several Asian enclaves in South America which were founded in the late 19th and early 20th century. Japan in particular had a large number of returning Japanese after WWII.

Can you cite an example of an Asian, non-Christian nation funding the development of a permanent colony in the Americas? If not, I'm correct.

The Turks murdered all the Christians in their territory over a period of time.

Source?

Every European country with a sizable Islamic minority seems to have excessive Islamic violence. If the governments fail to cave in to the demands of the Islamic minorities they use violence. The only answer seems to be to use the Islamic tactics of "ethnic" cleansing, which happens to include all the worshipers of a target religion. Only in this case Islam would be the religion.

If Islam continues to embrace violence then they deserve to be eliminated.

If Muslims are persecuted by any government, that government will be crushed with full force by the millions of willing mujahideen that will take up arms in defense of the religion. Widespread foreign participation in the jihad against Russia in the Caucasus is evidence of the ardor we feel for Islam.

 

[Charles Stucker]

If Muslims are persecuted by any government, that government will be crushed with full force by the millions of willing mujahideen that will take up arms in defense of the religion. Widespread foreign participation in the jihad against Russia in the Caucasus is evidence of the ardor we feel for Islam.

We all know that "persecuted" means they, the Islamic minorities, don't get everything they demand.
Try pushing China, see if they nuke Mecca and Medina.

 

[ekrem]

Armenia located in the Caucasus is economically boycotted by Turkey due to Armenia's occupation of Azerbaycani territory, called the Nagorno-Karabagh Conflict.
Armenia and Turkey have recently signed protocols to establish diplomatic relations.
This protocols must be ratified in the parliaments, and Turkey says clearly its parlimament will only ratify these protocols if there is progress in the Karabagh conflict.

Part of the protocols is also an establishment of a historian commission to investigate the 1915 events.
Armenian Diaspora is already going nuts
Rep. Schiff Slams Turkish Lobby | Armenian Weekly
Massachusetts Senate Candidate Capuano Opposes Historical Commission | Asbarez Armenian News

But as "The Economist" describes:

And, notes a Western official, “when it comes to Turkey and Armenia, Turkey wins every time.”

Premium content | Economist.com

Armenian President now sings this song:

Armenian President said Yerevan is ready to establish diplomatic ties with Turkey without any preconditions, “particularly without the precondition that Turkey should recognize the Armenian genocide”, Interfax reports.

Russia Today: Armenia no longer demands Turkey recognize the genocide of its people

The Historian Commission will prove there is no such thing of "Armenian Genocide". Killings, yes. Also Turkish victims. But no genocide.

 

[ekrem]

In my opinion the "Turkish opening" to Armenia is not a Turkish project, but in the principle of taking and giving in bilateral relations a concession to USA.
The breathing space of the USA in the Caucasus is running from day to day very thin. The breathing space is temporarily tied to the personality of Pro-USA President Sakaashvilli in Georgia. Russia is doing everything to destabilize Georgia, even has recognized the independence of 2 break-away provinces of Georgia.
Once Sakashvilli is gone, a matter NOT of decades but years, Georgia will choose to stay neutral in the Caucasus, like Azerbaycan does, rather then being the front-line of a proxy-war bringing destabilization to Georgia.

The USA in return tries to bring Armenia under the US influence sphere away from the Russian camp. The US does this via Turkey.

Once the borders are open, Armenian 18 Billion $ economy
Economy of Armenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
will be an extension of the 1 Trillion $ Turkish economy.
Economy of Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What the Armenian Diaspora thinks is not of interest, the Armenian state is hoping for economic relations with Turkey and being part of inter-state infrastructural projects.
Otherwise it will be boycotted like the BTC, SCP and the new Cacucasus Railway
Kars–Tbilisi–Baku railway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
or the new fibre-optic telecommunication lines through the Caucasus.
If Turkey does not want Armenia to be included it will not be included.

 

[Sodafin]

Ekrem -

Interesting points, but I think it is misleading to state that Russia recognises the independece of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and that Azerbaijan is neutral.

Firstly, Russia recognises the independence of those two areas only on the basis that they support Russian claims and interests in the area. They are, in essence, to be part of Russia. In the cases of Abkhazia, there is some basis for this, however Ossetia has simply been invaded.

Azerbaijan is not really neutral, because it is an an enemy of Iran and Armenia, while having some form of alliance with Russia and to a lesser extent, Turkey. The relationship with Georgia is also fine, and the border was open when I last went there.

Armenia does need Turkey economically, there is no doubt about that. It needs that border open. But the relationship will always be cool, and always should be. I think Armenia is showing courage and intelligence by accepting economic gain over historical hatred, tough as that is for Armenians to swallow.

 

[Kalam]

If Muslims are persecuted by any government, that government will be crushed with full force by the millions of willing mujahideen that will take up arms in defense of the religion. Widespread foreign participation in the jihad against Russia in the Caucasus is evidence of the ardor we feel for Islam.

We all know that "persecuted" means they, the Islamic minorities, don't get everything they demand.
Try pushing China, see if they nuke Mecca and Medina.

As long as they persecute the people of East Turkestan, we will. Your suggestion that the Chinese government would be so myopic and diplomatically retarded attests to the naivete of your understanding of international relations...

 

[Truthspeaker]

If Muslims are persecuted by any government, that government will be crushed with full force by the millions of willing mujahideen that will take up arms in defense of the religion. Widespread foreign participation in the jihad against Russia in the Caucasus is evidence of the ardor we feel for Islam.

We all know that "persecuted" means they, the Islamic minorities, don't get everything they demand.
Try pushing China, see if they nuke Mecca and Medina.

As long as they persecute the people of East Turkestan, we will. Your suggestion that the Chinese government would be so myopic and diplomatically retarded attests to the naivete of your understanding of international relations...

my how off topic we get, however, I must remark that while china may not nuke. They certainly wouldn't worry about offending muslims during a war with them. they would crush first and ask questions later. For if there is any country on this planet who couldn't care less about religion, it's China. China would have ended the Iraq war within 6 months.

 

[Zona]

Kim Kardashian and her family are Armenian.

Just about anyone who's last name ends in "ian" is a dead giveaway for an Armenian.

So are they mormian? God I hope not.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Kim Kardashian and her family are Armenian.

Just about anyone who's last name ends in "ian" is a dead giveaway for an Armenian.

So are they mormian? God I hope not.

I don't get it