how would biden take my guns.

[BLUE COLLAR]

Sorry, I meant unarmed blacks, but I acknowledge I didn't say that.

I meant shootings that shouldn't have happened. Whether it's the cops fault or not, it's clearly a bad thing when someone unarmed is killed. I wasn't counting white or black actual criminals

Fair enough.

I think all of us would be the better if we were color blind, but that's not happening anytime soon.

Not with you're a racist being the election strategy of the Democrat party, no it's not.

Isn't it sad how women are Democrats over being women? They will call a woman who disagrees with them a racist just for disagreeing with them. So much for women have the right to their own views, huh? Democrat women are no different than Archie Bunker. And it's not just women, every Democrat is a Democrat first. Agree with them or ... you're a racist.

It's been at least 40 years they did that, this it's Trump is BS. I only say 40 years not longer because it began then, just because my memory did so that's how long I personally remember it

First, I do not perceive you as a racist but many people will because of where you align yourself. Point being that the Republican Party has long been the Party of White Men, and they support policies accordingly.

Before you lose your cool...

It isn't any different for me. The far left in this country houses itself in the Democratic Party. Despite having been self-employed most of my adult life, I'm called a commie because I express liberal sentiments that have nothing to do with communism.

We have differences of opinion, but rational people negotiate their differences. Stereotypes are fodder for nonsense.

 

[washamericom]

Yes, George Floyd was murdered on film. And the cop who murdered him and the useless dolts who stood around and allowed it lost their jobs and were charged with crimes.

So how is that a point? The national stats don't support that cops are murdering backs. Far more blacks murder cops than the other way around and cops don't kill blacks in excess of the proportional interactions with cops.

I LOVE video tape for that reason. No doubt. Let's go after cops when they murder someone no matter what color they are.

But the crisis mode created by the Democrat party and BLM which is a Democrat political advocate not a social justice group does far more harm to our country than good. Anyone paying attention would see that

On the surface, I appreciate the dynamics in your points. I'll leave it at that with the reservation that I'll do some reading on some of what you referenced.

It's unfortunate that you don't hear the basic facts in fake news, isn't it? They just don't give the states because that would undercut their political agenda.

They also don't acknowledge that all sides overwhelmingly agreed George Floyd was murdered and wanted the cop who killed him charged. Again, they are trying to stoke anger for political benefit. How angry would screaming at the top of their lungs that this was an atrocity everyone wanted the cop charged get people? No, they scream it's an atrocity and imply Republicans didn't want the cop charged, which is just a lie. Lies work for the left, it's the core of their arguments

You are wrong (about me). I know what politicians are. I read "The Prince" a long time ago.

Perhaps the difference between us is that I confess Machiavelli of both sides?

Note that I do not ignore that both of us are forced to make choices, insufficient as they may be.

Regarding the news, it's like a jury trial, one part facts and four parts show. You have to read between the lines regardless of who you watch. They all work for money. Don't they?

Fake news is just lying. They aren't just four part show to one part facts. For example, they constantly misquoted Trump and presented their misquotes as fact.

Four parts show to one part fact would be a good description of Fox News. I always verify anything they say with independent sources. But they don't lie and make up news like fake news does

That’s hilarious. Your so called fake News rebroadcasts Trump making his stupid remarks, and they are misquoting him ? htf can you misquote a statement when you show Trump making it ?

Biden campaign was predicated upon the misquoted. The darndest thing.

 

[Utilitarian]

Point being that the Republican Party has long been the Party of White Men,

That would be both parties, but whites are the majority of the population here, and men tend to run most systems in the world overall.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

I get the Darwin, im an atlas shrugged guy

Libertarians stole their idea from the Anarchist (leftwing) and then added back extensive property law - not to mention police powers and courts to defend it all. I've often wondered what a Libertarian moans on his death bed. "If I'd have just accumulated one more dollar, I could die happy,"

Funny how so many of us preach that its family, friends, and good health, the simple things that makes us happy. But for most of us that's lip service. When it comes to a material life, enough is never enough.

Libertarianism in America is quite different from libertarianism in most of the rest of the world, but supporting property law doesn't make someone materialistic. Property law is essential to any free society. If you don't have property rights, that basically destroys ambition and innovation. Society becomes stagnant, because there's little motivation to advance in technology or to produce.

Anarcho-capitalists are a significant faction among libertarians, and they believe the market can handle things like policing and courts.

I agree that SOME level of property rights/law are essential.

But as for the invisible hand, I do not find it rational. Rather, it acts in the interest of those with power and excuses excess on the notion that all floats are raised (albeit some are dirty and leaking to the concern of those in them). I have little tolerance for Steven Pinker and his graphs. As for Uncle Milty, bullshit.

 

[2aguy]

They didn't kill him first.... he was dead before they got there...that is what 2X the lethal dose of Fentanyl means..........even if paramedics had arrived first and given him aid, he would have died.......the knee on the neck did nothing to add to that outcome...they ..... did.... not...... kill....him.....

He reacted as trained......they have training from that cities police training doctrine which shows how to use the knee to the neck.........that officer should be found not guilty and returned to duty....

I have seen no evidence he was dead before the cop cut off his air. What is that claim based on?

The 2X the lethal dose of fentanyl in his system.....he was already dead...he just hadn't stopped moving......even if paramedics were on the scene there was nothing they could do...his lungs were done.

I have read the autopsy report, and it said nothing like that. And people develop high tolerances to fentanyl over time.
But even if true, that he was already going to die, it does not alter the fact it is illegal murder to do a carotid choke hold.
We all saw it.
Whether he died at all, or died of something else, it is still attempted murder by the cop.

Dumb ass....it was not a carotid choke hold....it was a pinning technique...you dumb ass.

He was not murdered.......you assholes keep saying that to try to make it true....and it isn't true, not even remotely true.

He killed himself with a drug overdose.

 

[Utilitarian]

Libertarianism in America is quite different from libertarianism in most of the rest of the world, but supporting property law doesn't make someone materialistic. Property law is essential to any free society. If you don't have property rights, that basically destroys ambition and innovation. Society becomes stagnant, because there's little motivation to advance in technology or to produce.

Anarcho-capitalists are a significant faction among libertarians, and they believe the market can handle things like policing and courts.

I agree that SOME level of property rights/law are essential.

But as for the invisible hand, I do not find it rational. Rather, it acts in the interest of those with power and excuses excess on the notion that all floats are raised (albeit some are dirty and leaking to the concern of those in them). I have little tolerance for Steven Pinker and his graphs. As for Uncle Milty, bullshit.

I'm not an ancap myself, but I think free markets are essential. The problem is that most markets aren't free.

The biggest problem with capitalism in practice is not the market itself -- it's corporate law. Because corporations can do things that individuals are not allowed to do, that's where the corruption enters the picture. In short, capitalism isn't the problem, but government collusion with corporations is.

 

[2aguy]

Libertarianism in America is quite different from libertarianism in most of the rest of the world, but supporting property law doesn't make someone materialistic. Property law is essential to any free society. If you don't have property rights, that basically destroys ambition and innovation. Society becomes stagnant, because there's little motivation to advance in technology or to produce.

Anarcho-capitalists are a significant faction among libertarians, and they believe the market can handle things like policing and courts.

I agree that SOME level of property rights/law are essential.

But as for the invisible hand, I do not find it rational. Rather, it acts in the interest of those with power and excuses excess on the notion that all floats are raised (albeit some are dirty and leaking to the concern of those in them). I have little tolerance for Steven Pinker and his graphs. As for Uncle Milty, bullshit.

I'm not an ancap myself, but I think free markets are essential. The problem is that most markets aren't free.

The biggest problem with capitalism in practice is not the market itself -- it's corporate law. Because corporations can do things that individuals are not allowed to do, that's where the corruption enters the picture. In short, capitalism isn't the problem, but government collusion with corporations is.

but government collusion with corporations is.

Which is the fascist brand of socialism....

 

[Utilitarian]

I'm not an ancap myself, but I think free markets are essential. The problem is that most markets aren't free.

The biggest problem with capitalism in practice is not the market itself -- it's corporate law. Because corporations can do things that individuals are not allowed to do, that's where the corruption enters the picture. In short, capitalism isn't the problem, but government collusion with corporations is.

but government collusion with corporations is.

Which is the fascist brand of socialism....

Indeed, but unfortunately, we even have people here that defend quantitative easing as if it isn't corporate welfare.

 

[kaz]

First, I do not perceive you as a racist but many people will because of where you align yourself. Point being that the Republican Party has long been the Party of White Men, and they support policies accordingly

Exactly what I said, isn't it? I'm not a Democrat, so it's Racist, Racist, Racist!

And the Democrat party is all through history the party of slavery, Jim Crow, the KKK and segregation and today being black means you are free to be a Democrat or Democrats will destroy you.

The Democrat party is as racist as it ever was.

Try saying you're a black and you're leaving the Democrat party on this site and see how that goes

 

[kaz]

I have read the autopsy report, and it said nothing like that. And people develop high tolerances to fentanyl over time.
But even if true, that he was already going to die, it does not alter the fact it is illegal murder to do a carotid choke hold.
We all saw it.
Whether he died at all, or died of something else, it is still attempted murder by the cop.

Dumb ass....it was not a carotid choke hold....it was a pinning technique...you dumb ass.

He was not murdered.......you assholes keep saying that to try to make it true....and it isn't true, not even remotely true.

He killed himself with a drug overdose.

Sitting on someone's neck for over two minutes after you are informed they have no pulse is murdering them.

Nothing you've said undoes that, which is what makes it hard to buy

 

[2aguy]

I have read the autopsy report, and it said nothing like that. And people develop high tolerances to fentanyl over time.
But even if true, that he was already going to die, it does not alter the fact it is illegal murder to do a carotid choke hold.
We all saw it.
Whether he died at all, or died of something else, it is still attempted murder by the cop.

Dumb ass....it was not a carotid choke hold....it was a pinning technique...you dumb ass.

He was not murdered.......you assholes keep saying that to try to make it true....and it isn't true, not even remotely true.

He killed himself with a drug overdose.

Sitting on someone's neck for over two minutes after you are informed they have no pulse is murdering them.

Nothing you've said undoes that, which is what makes it hard to buy

No, it isn't....paramedics were called......the knee was not blocking blood flow or air.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

Libertarianism in America is quite different from libertarianism in most of the rest of the world, but supporting property law doesn't make someone materialistic. Property law is essential to any free society. If you don't have property rights, that basically destroys ambition and innovation. Society becomes stagnant, because there's little motivation to advance in technology or to produce.

Anarcho-capitalists are a significant faction among libertarians, and they believe the market can handle things like policing and courts.

I agree that SOME level of property rights/law are essential.

But as for the invisible hand, I do not find it rational. Rather, it acts in the interest of those with power and excuses excess on the notion that all floats are raised (albeit some are dirty and leaking to the concern of those in them). I have little tolerance for Steven Pinker and his graphs. As for Uncle Milty, bullshit.

I'm not an ancap myself, but I think free markets are essential. The problem is that most markets aren't free.

The biggest problem with capitalism in practice is not the market itself -- it's corporate law. Because corporations can do things that individuals are not allowed to do, that's where the corruption enters the picture. In short, capitalism isn't the problem, but government collusion with corporations is.

I dislike corporations, trust and every manner of property law that attempts to change the natural order of things simply by the ability, and money, to assemble a paper façade.

As for collusion, you stopped short, the collusion is between people, it's a product of ambition. Shall we regulate that or would that be a commie redistribution? Fact is that human nature is imperfect, and power abuses.

 

[Utilitarian]

I dislike corporations, trust and every manner of property law that attempts to change the natural order of things simply by the ability, and money, to assemble a paper façade.

As for collusion, you stopped short, the collusion is between people, it's a product of ambition. Shall we regulate that or would that be a commie redistribution? Fact is that human nature is imperfect, and power abuses.

You're assuming the regulators aren't corrupt themselves. I have no reason to believe government is less corrupt than corporations. If anything, it would seem to be more corrupt because of its monopoly on force -- a great example of abuse of power. I'm not against all regulations, but it should be used sparingly.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

I dislike corporations, trust and every manner of property law that attempts to change the natural order of things simply by the ability, and money, to assemble a paper façade.

As for collusion, you stopped short, the collusion is between people, it's a product of ambition. Shall we regulate that or would that be a commie redistribution? Fact is that human nature is imperfect, and power abuses.

You're assuming the regulators aren't corrupt themselves. I have no reason to believe government is less corrupt than corporations. If anything, it would seem to be more corrupt because of its monopoly on force -- a great example of abuse of power. I'm not against all regulations, but it should be used sparingly.

Of course, some regulators are corrupt, they are people.

I'm not assuming anything; be cautious with the strawman - thanks.

 

[Utilitarian]

I dislike corporations, trust and every manner of property law that attempts to change the natural order of things simply by the ability, and money, to assemble a paper façade.

As for collusion, you stopped short, the collusion is between people, it's a product of ambition. Shall we regulate that or would that be a commie redistribution? Fact is that human nature is imperfect, and power abuses.

You're assuming the regulators aren't corrupt themselves. I have no reason to believe government is less corrupt than corporations. If anything, it would seem to be more corrupt because of its monopoly on force -- a great example of abuse of power. I'm not against all regulations, but it should be used sparingly.

Of course, some regulators are corrupt, they are people.

I'm not assuming anything; be cautious with the strawman - thanks.

To be fair, your mention of "commie redistribution" was also a strawman.

I still wouldn't call collusion a product of ambition -- it's more like a corruption of ambition. Every motivation has a negative side. Greed is another negative aspect of ambition.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

First, I do not perceive you as a racist but many people will because of where you align yourself. Point being that the Republican Party has long been the Party of White Men, and they support policies accordingly

Exactly what I said, isn't it? I'm not a Democrat, so it's Racist, Racist, Racist!

And the Democrat party is all through history the party of slavery, Jim Crow, the KKK and segregation and today being black means you are free to be a Democrat or Democrats will destroy you.

The Democrat party is as racist as it ever was.

Try saying you're a black and you're leaving the Democrat party on this site and see how that goes

Did the Democratic Party become more, or less, racist when the Dixiecrats escaped into the Republican Party?

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

Agreed, but that's why I advocate splitting up the US into multiple countries. The feds are a good representation of too much concentrated power.

Ok, but how would that work?

Let's say you divided the country in two: The Red States of America, and the Blue States of America. First, you'd have staggering geographic problems. You'd also have approximately half the people in each new country forced (or at least wanting) to move.

And check this out:

Mississippi received $2.13 for every tax dollar the state sent to Washington in 2015, according to the Rockefeller study. West Virginia received $2.07, Kentucky got $1.90 and South Carolina got $1.71.

Meanwhile, New Jersey received 74 cents in federal spending for tax every dollar the state sent to Washington. New York received 81 cents, Connecticut received 82 cents and Massachusetts received 83 cents.

California fared a bit better than other blue states. It received 96 cents for every dollar the state sent to Washington.

On average, states received $1.14 in federal spending for every tax dollar they sent to Washington. That’s why the federal government has a budget deficit.

AP FACT CHECK: Blue high-tax states fund red low-tax states (apnews.com)

If we assume that it really is a matter of blue states funding red states, then blue states should be very eager to separate from them. The fact that they aren't is rather revealing.

If I thought it could be done, I'd do it in heartbeat. So there's at least once exception to your absolute.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

I dislike corporations, trust and every manner of property law that attempts to change the natural order of things simply by the ability, and money, to assemble a paper façade.

As for collusion, you stopped short, the collusion is between people, it's a product of ambition. Shall we regulate that or would that be a commie redistribution? Fact is that human nature is imperfect, and power abuses.

You're assuming the regulators aren't corrupt themselves. I have no reason to believe government is less corrupt than corporations. If anything, it would seem to be more corrupt because of its monopoly on force -- a great example of abuse of power. I'm not against all regulations, but it should be used sparingly.

Of course, some regulators are corrupt, they are people.

I'm not assuming anything; be cautious with the strawman - thanks.

To be fair, your mention of "commie redistribution" was also a strawman.

I still wouldn't call collusion a product of ambition -- it's more like a corruption of ambition. Every motivation has a negative side. Greed is another negative aspect of ambition.

If I accused you of an argument you did not make, my apology.

I gotta run. Suffice that it's a fucked up world. CYA and don't get too excited about the rest.

 

[Utilitarian]

If we assume that it really is a matter of blue states funding red states, then blue states should be very eager to separate from them. The fact that they aren't is rather revealing.

If I thought it could be done, I'd do it in heartbeat. So there's at least once exception to your absolute.

I think you'll find a lot of people on the red side willing to do it, so I guess it's a matter of getting a lot of blue staters to agree to it. Some in California seem to be pushing for it, although they've been less vocal about it since Biden entered office.

 

[kaz]

First, I do not perceive you as a racist but many people will because of where you align yourself. Point being that the Republican Party has long been the Party of White Men, and they support policies accordingly

Exactly what I said, isn't it? I'm not a Democrat, so it's Racist, Racist, Racist!

And the Democrat party is all through history the party of slavery, Jim Crow, the KKK and segregation and today being black means you are free to be a Democrat or Democrats will destroy you.

The Democrat party is as racist as it ever was.

Try saying you're a black and you're leaving the Democrat party on this site and see how that goes

Did the Democratic Party become more, or less, racist when the Dixiecrats escaped into the Republican Party?

Don't worry, racists here in the south are still firmly with the Democrats. The biggest racist I know still has an Obama sticker on his truck. Fiscal conservatives went to the Republican party. You need to stop listening to fascist Democrat propaganda.

You didn't try the test yet of announcing you're a black leaving the Democrat party on the site yet, did you?