CDZ How to Use Tariffs as Weapons and Not Hurt Yourself...

[flacaltenn]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

 

[flacaltenn]

And BTW -- this phony number of "costing the average American Household $6600" for this tariff gambit is pure garbage.. I checked around my house and unless I buy TWO CARS during this spat, I don't see more than $400 of Mexican goods that I need to BUY this year.. So my tariff hit would be about $100 --- worst case...

 

[Moonglow]

The tariff goes to 25% in the fall if immigration is not fixed in Mexico.

 

[william the wie]

Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia will be the big winners of the trade war, which will complicate China's other foreign policy problems a lot.

 

[flacaltenn]

The tariff goes to 25% in the fall if immigration is not fixed in Mexico.

Yeah so? More money to the Treasury that can be rebated to American workers and their employers.. Mexico pays..

 

[toobfreak]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Congratulations, Flacc,

You just proved that:

1. You're smarter than every politician in Washington. How dare you apply basic logic and common sense reasoning!
   
2. No one in Washington is there for the common good of its citizens. Or these people are all truly IDIOTS.

Because every problem that Congress whines about eternally and promises to address from election to election NEVER GETS SOLVED, yet they are the ones that caused them in the first place.

THEREFORE:

The taxpayer must understand that all our problems are there because THEY WANT THEM THERE, and government does not only not work, it certainly isn't working for us.

As for the pointing out, I hope you're not just realizing that our media lies to us every day? Just as they never see the obvious, gaping holes in the Russian argument and Trump Collusion theory, somehow, none of the obvious questions ever ever get asked.

 

[Moonglow]

The tariff goes to 25% in the fall if immigration is not fixed in Mexico.

Yeah so? More money to the Treasury that can be rebated to American workers and their employers.. Mexico pays..

With no drawbacks like a bear market?

 

[Darkwind]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Yet, these are the same people who wish to tax business in America at a 70 to 90% marginal rate and make the outlandish claim that those taxes do not get passed to the American consumer. They want these rates for things like the climate change hoax and to buy votes from the poor by giving them government-run health insurance.

You simply cannot make this kind of thing up.

 

[william the wie]

The current big threat has nothing to do tariffs it is the fact that illegals are headed toward sanctuary Jurisdictions and bringing their diseases with them. I might and do think that the average lefty should get a felony conviction and a year's worth of community service to straighten out the mess they have helped make. But death from Bubonic Plague is over kill.

 

[BlackFlag]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Link to where Mexico pays the tax penalty Trump will be punishing Americans with for daring to shop from somebody not approved by the big fed gubmint. Thanks.

Are their payments for these taxes Trump is imposing on Americans going to come with the wall check?

 

[BlackFlag]

I want to buy a car next year that will cost $1500 more than it used to because the big fed gubmint is punishing us all for participating in the free market. Who do I contact in Mexico to get reimbursed for that? Can I just do it online?

 

[Moonglow]

Republicans finally prove how much they hate free trade by imposing tariffs...

 

[flacaltenn]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Link to where Mexico pays the tax penalty Trump will be punishing Americans with for daring to shop from somebody not approved by the big fed gubmint. Thanks.

Are their payments for these taxes Trump is imposing on Americans going to come with the wall check?

Not taxes... TARIFFS.. I just explained the money path for tariffs on incoming goods.. What part of that didn't you know? The whole purpose of this thread is to prove that American consumers NEED NOT PAY for the tariff price increases -- because the MONEY from Mexico is already received by the US Treasury as the goods come thru ports of entry..

If you're still clueless, go read the Wiki on how tariffs work and come back and thank me.....

 

[Moonglow]

A consumer in the US buys a product of Mexico but the price is higher than before the tariff....Yet the consumer doesn't pay for the tariff. Is that what you are saying?

 

[flacaltenn]

I want to buy a car next year that will cost $1500 more than it used to because the big fed gubmint is punishing us all for participating in the free market. Who do I contact in Mexico to get reimbursed for that? Can I just do it online?

This squabble isn't gonna LAST 3 months. That's why I don't oppose using tariffs to get someone's immediate attention when they are shining you on.. So defer the damn car.. But if you DO buy one, the Fed govt already HAS the money from Mexico and you'll get the "average share" of the tariffs collected....

NORMAL folks who aren't buying a car heavily sourced in Mexico won't see more than $100 max difference on their Mexican goods.. Even IF it goes to the 25% rate..

 

[flacaltenn]

A consumer in the US buys a product of Mexico but the price is higher than before the tariff....Yet the consumer doesn't pay for the tariff. Is that what you are saying?

Let's do this again slowly...

1) Your $40 toaster comes from Mexico thru a port of entry.
2) Customs collects an EXTRA $4 (10% tariff) and sends that off to the US Treasury..
3) The PRICE of the toaster to the consumer will rise by some fraction of that $4, but not likely the entire $4.
4) Congress acts to earmark that Mexican tariff money as I allocated above.. 40%, 40%, 20%...
5) When each American family files it's taxes, they receive a tax credit or FICA break equal to 40% (OR MORE) of the tariffs collected --- divided by the number of tax filers. Doesn't have to be exact, there's more money in the Treasury from the tariffs than they are handing back...

Doesn't HAVE to be the numbers I gave.. 80% of the tariff income could be rebated to workers here in the USA at tax time..

This country's SOLE SOURCE of Income for it's first 80 years or so was LARGELY TARIFFS... It's real, actual INCOME to the Treasury.. Congress knows that. They are just not problem solvers or working in YOUR interests..

 

[ABikerSailor]

A consumer in the US buys a product of Mexico but the price is higher than before the tariff....Yet the consumer doesn't pay for the tariff. Is that what you are saying?

Let's do this again slowly...

1) Your $40 toaster comes from Mexico thru a port of entry.
2) Customs collects an EXTRA $4 (10% tariff) and sends that off to the US Treasury..
3) The PRICE of the toaster to the consumer will rise by some fraction of that $4, but not likely the entire $4.
4) Congress acts to earmark that Mexican tariff money as I allocated above.. 40%, 40%, 20%...
5) When each American family files it's taxes, they receive a tax credit or FICA break equal to 40% (OR MORE) of the tariffs collected --- divided by the number of tax filers. Doesn't have to be exact, there's more money in the Treasury from the tariffs than they are handing back...

Doesn't HAVE to be the numbers I gave.. 80% of the tariff income could be rebated to workers here in the USA at tax time..

This country's SOLE SOURCE of Income for it's first 80 years or so was LARGELY TARIFFS... It's real, actual INCOME to the Treasury.. Congress knows that. They are just not problem solvers or working in YOUR interests..

Do you REALLY think that big corporations are going to absorb part of the cost of the tariff without passing it on to the consumer? Hate to tell you but capitalism doesn't work like that, the costs are passed on to the consumer.

 

[BlackFlag]

Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

So next week, when American importers are paying an extra 5% for their goods from Mexico, and that extra 5% goes to the treasury as a tax payment; you’re telling me you can show that actually it’s Mexico’s government paying that 5%?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And BTW -- this phony number of "costing the average American Household $6600" for this tariff gambit is pure garbage.. I checked around my house and unless I buy TWO CARS during this spat, I don't see more than $400 of Mexican goods that I need to BUY this year.. So my tariff hit would be about $100 --- worst case...

You aren't forgetting the Pinatas, are you?

You do get a little extravagant come kids birthday time

 

[Olde Europe]

The recent desperate tactic of putting Mexico on notice about controlling their border with threats of tariffs raises a lot of hackles.. Congress bleating on both sides of the aisle that it is a tax on consumers and hurts us more then them...

Well certainly tariffs hurts BOTH sides. And Mexico will pay a price for being slow or lazy to get on the problem.. But it does NOT NECESSARILY NEED to hurt American consumers... Just heard on top of the hour news that Congress is concerned about how much it will cost the average American.. Should they BE concerned? Or do they just not UNDERSTAND how tariffs work? Because CERTAINLY, every dollar of those tariffs that Mexico pays goes into the Treasury.. Mexico PAYS, The US Treasury POCKETS THE MONEY. And consumers have to foot the bill.

How is that FAIR when the Treasury will just flush the Mexican cash into the General Fund with the hopeless megaflood of other debt-ridden liabilities... And LET US pay the price increases..

We're pretty ignorant suckers to fall for that scam...

Why is it that CONGRESS can't figure out how to PROTECT American consumers in this case? It's obvious how that could be done.. All they have to do is EARMARK those tariffs with a goodly portion being REBATED to every working American family..

Something like 40% to the General Fund, 20% to border security and border infrastructure, and 40% REBATED to every working, tax filing American either by tax credits for the duration of the punitive tariff measure, OR a percentage DECREASE in the FICA taxes due.. For the latter, that would flow to both workers and their employers who would also take a hit.. The 40% to the General Fund completely offsets the cost of ANY 40% rebate to American workers..

Now I'm not a fan of tariffs for ECONOMIC reasons.. That's a lose-lose dead end strategy.. But tariffs to get the attention of recalcitrant or dishonest international partners is a quick and easy to emphasize --- "this is a priority"....

And I'm AMAZED that Congress results to just WHINING about the effects, when the money is THEIRS to ameliorate the damage to their constituents.... So many analysts and talking heads and politicos and NO ONE POINTS THIS OUT??????

Mexico pays no tariffs. The importing U.S. corporation does, and it passes the cost on to the consumer.

Let the total tariff be 100%. 40% goes into the general budget, 20% for the wall, and 40% flows into some rebate to consumers that will require some decent-sized bureaucracy to calculate and implement. That still saddles U.S. consumers with 60% of the tariffs. If that's "protecting" U.S. consumers, I don't want to know what will happen to them under Trump.

Yeah, none of the politicians and pundits points out how to protect consumers according to Flac - because it's not working.

You could, of course, quietly pay back the tariffs to the supermarket chains / auto makers / etc., who would then leave the prices where they were before, and then consumers really are protected. How about that? Except for some financial wizards who would figure out a way to get the tariff rebate, twice or thrice, without ever having paid any tariff.