How To "Free Palestine"

[Eloy]

That is true. Palestine's constitution calls Palestine an Islamic state. It also states that all Palestinians are equal without regard to race, religion, sex, etc..

Whoa. Wouldn't that mean a state can call itself a Jewish state and also state that all people are equal without regard to race, religion, gender, etc? At least theoretically?

So then its just a matter of practice, yes?

So you think Israelis should get their standards from Arab states? Fair enough.

 

[Shusha]

That is true. Palestine's constitution calls Palestine an Islamic state. It also states that all Palestinians are equal without regard to race, religion, sex, etc..

Whoa. Wouldn't that mean a state can call itself a Jewish state and also state that all people are equal without regard to race, religion, gender, etc? At least theoretically?

So then its just a matter of practice, yes?

So you think Israelis should get their standards from Arab states? Fair enough.

On the contrary, I think it highlights the double standards applied to the Jewish state vs. Arab states.

The question, I guess, is whether or not all states should be held to the same standards. The answer is rather obvious to me. The next question is whether that standard should be the higher or the lower standard? And further, if we decide that the higher standards are THE standard, what should be done to enforce that standard to the Arab countries who currently fail to meet those standards. (Especially with respect to inequality due to gender, race, religion).

 

[Eloy]

That is true. Palestine's constitution calls Palestine an Islamic state. It also states that all Palestinians are equal without regard to race, religion, sex, etc..

Whoa. Wouldn't that mean a state can call itself a Jewish state and also state that all people are equal without regard to race, religion, gender, etc? At least theoretically?

So then its just a matter of practice, yes?

So you think Israelis should get their standards from Arab states? Fair enough.

On the contrary, I think it highlights the double standards applied to the Jewish state vs. Arab states.

The question, I guess, is whether or not all states should be held to the same standards. The answer is rather obvious to me. The next question is whether that standard should be the higher or the lower standard? And further, if we decide that the higher standards are THE standard, what should be done to enforce that standard to the Arab countries who currently fail to meet those standards. (Especially with respect to inequality due to gender, race, religion).

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.
Unlike the Jewish state of Israel, no European Union member states promote themselves with specific reference to a particular religion. Even Poland which is almost exclusively Catholic does not use the designation Catholic Poland. The British who gave a chunk of Palestine to Jews do not call their own country Anglican Britain.

 

[Shusha]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Sixties Fan]

This is what Arab Journalists think about Israel (and do not say that it is a biased source. It is not the first time, or place where they have expressed the same thing)

Visiting Arab Journalists Describe Israel as ‘Western and Free’

According to Israel’s Ynet news. the guests described their first impressions of Israel as “appearing Western and free,” and as “an opportunity to see the real Israel without the media acting as a middle man.”

(full article online)

 

[montelatici]

LOL. An all expenses paid vacation, that certainly did not include visits to Gaza or the West Bank makes good propaganda.

 

[MJB12741]

LOL. An all expenses paid vacation, that certainly did not include visits to Gaza or the West Bank makes good propaganda.

Aha. So, when was your last trip to Gaza & the West Bank to know what's happening?

 

[Eloy]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

No European Union state identifies itself by a religion as Israel does.

 

[Shusha]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

No European Union state identifies itself by a religion as Israel does.

European nations identify themselves by their collective cultural identity (that includes religion, but is not limited to it). As Israel does.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

No European Union state identifies itself by a religion as Israel does.

European nations identify themselves by their collective cultural identity (that includes religion, but is not limited to it). As Israel does.

There isn't one Muslim country (all 56 of them) which does not identify itself by the prevalent religion. Islam.

Jews are the majority in Israel. Therefore it is a State defined by Jewish holidays, culture and history. But it does not exclude the commemoration and respect for all other religious holidays.

Which is the same thing which happens all over Europe and the Americas. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, have their own cultural celebrations and are free to celebrate them.

 

[Eloy]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

No European Union state identifies itself by a religion as Israel does.

European nations identify themselves by their collective cultural identity (that includes religion, but is not limited to it). As Israel does.

You are mistaken; Using religious history is not part of the names nor constitutions of European Union (EU) states. Doing so would not be permitted by EU treaties and law.

 

[Indeependent]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

No European Union state identifies itself by a religion as Israel does.

Which sh!t would you prefer...
[1[ Bull?
[2] Horse?

 

[montelatici]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

No European Union state identifies itself by a religion as Israel does.

European nations identify themselves by their collective cultural identity (that includes religion, but is not limited to it). As Israel does.

There isn't one Muslim country (all 56 of them) which does not identify itself by the prevalent religion. Islam.

Jews are the majority in Israel. Therefore it is a State defined by Jewish holidays, culture and history. But it does not exclude the commemoration and respect for all other religious holidays.

Which is the same thing which happens all over Europe and the Americas. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, have their own cultural celebrations and are free to celebrate them.

"There isn't one Muslim country (all 56 of them) which does not identify itself by the prevalent religion. Islam."

Typical Zionist propaganda. None of the following Muslim countries identify themselves as Muslim states.

Albania
Azerbaijan
Turkey
Kosovo
Kazakhstan
Indonesia
Lebanon
Senegal
Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan

 

[Shusha]

You are mistaken; Using religious history is not part of the names nor constitutions of European Union (EU) states. Doing so would not be permitted by EU treaties and law.

Really? You mean like the constitution of Greece which reads, "In the name of the Holy and Consubtantial and Indivisible Trinity..."

Or Ireland: "In the name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, We, the people of Eire, humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial ... do hereby adopt, enact and give ourselves this Constitution."

Norway: "Our values remain from our Christian and humanist heritage."

Poland: "We, the Polish Nation – all citizens of the Republic, both those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty, as well as those not sharing such faith but respecting those universal values as arising from other sources, (...) beholden to our ancestors (...) for our culture rooted in the Christian heritage of the Nation and in universal human values, (...) recognizing our responsibility before God or our own consciences, hereby establish this Constitution of the Republic of Poland."

 

[Shusha]

And I didn't even include the ones which include generic references to G-d.

 

[Eloy]

You are mistaken; Using religious history is not part of the names nor constitutions of European Union (EU) states. Doing so would not be permitted by EU treaties and law.

Really? You mean like the constitution of Greece which reads, "In the name of the Holy and Consubtantial and Indivisible Trinity..."

Or Ireland: "In the name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, We, the people of Eire, humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial ... do hereby adopt, enact and give ourselves this Constitution."

Norway: "Our values remain from our Christian and humanist heritage."

Poland: "We, the Polish Nation – all citizens of the Republic, both those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty, as well as those not sharing such faith but respecting those universal values as arising from other sources, (...) beholden to our ancestors (...) for our culture rooted in the Christian heritage of the Nation and in universal human values, (...) recognizing our responsibility before God or our own consciences, hereby establish this Constitution of the Republic of Poland."

Greek Orthodox, Irish and Polish Catholics and Norwegian Lutherans are not treated differently from those of other religions in their states. Norway is not a member of the EU but any EU country which discriminates on the basis of religion in any way can be brought before the European Union Court of Justice to fix the dispute.
Naturally, countries in the EU are very ancient and have rich histories among which is their religious backgrounds and it can be no surprise that their traditions gets mentioned in their constitutions but by mentioning God does not imply that all these states, including Norway too, treat citizens differently based on their religion or none.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

You did give the impression that it is alright for Israel to do as Arab states do.

In fact, I didn't. What I said was that IF Palestine can be considered to hold an acceptable moral standard while labeling itself as Islamic and yet subscribing to the idea that all people are equal, surely the same standard applies to Israel, does it not? Its either possible to meet a minimum acceptable moral standard while defining a nation by religion or ethnicity or it is not. If it is, surely it applies equally to ALL nations and not just to some. In theory.

If you want to measure the practical reality of whether or not any nation meets a moral standard, you would have to define your terms. What's the standard?

You seem to already be admitting that Arab states do not meet any kind of standard. And I would wholeheartedly agree.

No European Union state identifies itself by a religion as Israel does.

European nations identify themselves by their collective cultural identity (that includes religion, but is not limited to it). As Israel does.

There isn't one Muslim country (all 56 of them) which does not identify itself by the prevalent religion. Islam.

Jews are the majority in Israel. Therefore it is a State defined by Jewish holidays, culture and history. But it does not exclude the commemoration and respect for all other religious holidays.

Which is the same thing which happens all over Europe and the Americas. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, have their own cultural celebrations and are free to celebrate them.

"There isn't one Muslim country (all 56 of them) which does not identify itself by the prevalent religion. Islam."

Typical Zionist propaganda. None of the following Muslim countries identify themselves as Muslim states.

Albania
Azerbaijan
Turkey
Kosovo
Kazakhstan
Indonesia
Lebanon
Senegal
Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan

So, only 12 out of 56 states don't identify themselves as Muslim?

 

[Shusha]

Naturally, countries in the EU are very ancient and have rich histories among which is their religious backgrounds and it can be no surprise that their traditions gets mentioned in their constitutions ....

Of course. Israel is the same. In fact, Israel, by definition, has a thousand year head start on all the European Christian traditions. So why do you have a problem when Israel does it and not when Ireland does it?

 

[Eloy]

Naturally, countries in the EU are very ancient and have rich histories among which is their religious backgrounds and it can be no surprise that their traditions gets mentioned in their constitutions ....

Of course. Israel is the same. In fact, Israel, by definition, has a thousand year head start on all the European Christian traditions. So why do you have a problem when Israel does it and not when Ireland does it?

Israel is only 68 years old. Practically brand new and look at the trouble it has caused in its short existence.
Lord have mercy!

 

[Indeependent]

Naturally, countries in the EU are very ancient and have rich histories among which is their religious backgrounds and it can be no surprise that their traditions gets mentioned in their constitutions ....

Of course. Israel is the same. In fact, Israel, by definition, has a thousand year head start on all the European Christian traditions. So why do you have a problem when Israel does it and not when Ireland does it?

Israel is only 68 years old. Practically brand new and look at the trouble it has caused in its short existence.
Lord have mercy!

As though the 1,000 prior years were wonderful for Jews thanks to murderous Christians and Muslims.