How to fix illegal immigration?

[LilOlLady]

HOW TO FIX ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?

Enforce our immigration laws. Another amnesty without enforcing immigration laws will only lead to another 20 immigrating illegally and another amnesty in another 20 years. Laws do not work unless they are enforced. We set speeding limits and give tickets to those who exceed the speed limit so that people will not exceed the speed limit. Illegal immigration is not a harmless crime. It take jobs from Americans and lower wages and it hurt Mexico’s economy when it’s young worker leave. Self deportation must be encouraged and it is not a punishment but it is to right a wrong. It is not inhumane but the right thing to do. Mexico is more then capable of providing for it’s own. Americans are fed up with having to pay for the education and healthcare of illegal aliens and their children when they and their children are struggling for an education and healthcare. Is there some one in government that is listening to Americans. Americans are compassionate but their own poor come first and enough is enough already.
No where in our immigration laws is there a clause for amnesty. Self deportation and attrition will make things right. Then secure the border and enforce our immigration law or take them off the books. Amnesty by any other name is still the same.

http://www.americanworker.org/amnesty_handout2.htm

 

[CultureCitizen]

Drugs and people cross the border for the same reason : demand and supply .

There is a job supply in America and a demand for jobs in the south.
There is demand of drugs in America and people in the South willing to provide them.
Drug lords demand high caliber weapons and illegal American weapons make their way south of the border somehow.

I am not saying this is right. It is just the nature of markets.

There is no easy solution, as long as the wages in the US remain and there is a supply for Jobs people will continue crossing the border.

 

[PostmodernProph]

it would seem to me that if you wanted to solve the problem of illegal immigration, the best solution is to amend the current system of legal immigration......

if someone wishes to work and someone else wishes to hire them, why shouldn't they be able to get a work visa to make it happen......

argument #1 - but then foreign nationals would be taking American jobs because they are willing to work for less and the government ends up paying the bill through welfare and the healthcare system

solution - require the employer applying for the work visa to guarantee a sufficient wage to ensure that the worker will not need to seek public assistance, to fund health insurance, AND to pay the government a $1/hour surcharge which will be used to finance the oversight structure that ensures compliance.

argument #2 - it will have a negative impact on social security and medicare

solution - people working under a visa will not qualify for either social security or medicare, also there will be no withholdings from their weekly paychecks for those funds. However, the employer will continue to pay the employer portion for both to ensure that hiring foreign nationals will not be cheaper than hiring Americans.

argument #3 - its wrong to create a path for citizenship for people who are here illegally

solution - there is no reason to have a different path for citizenship. A person who arrives here legally under a work visa today can eventually apply for citizenship by meeting a list of criteria. A person who obtains a work visa under the proposed plan simply is treated as someone who is here legally, beginning as anyone else on day 1. No credit is given for any time spent here illegally.

 

[waltky]

Citizenship through enlistment & military service...

Pentagon eyes specialized program to enlist undocumented immigrants
May 20, 2014: WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is reviewing a program that allows qualified noncitizens to enlist in the military, and officials say they’ll consider expanding it to cover some who now live in the United States illegally.

With legislative efforts stalled that would allow undocumented foreign nationals seeking citizenship to enlist in the military, the Pentagon and the White House are looking at alternatives, the Defense Department’s head of personnel said Monday at a Congressional hearing in Chicago. “We look forward to the time when we’ll be able to grant more individuals the opportunity to serve this great nation,” said Jessica Wright, acting undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness. The Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest program, or MAVNI, has been used by the services to enlist nearly 3,000 foreign nationals with vital language and medical skills since 2009. The program currently excludes undocumented immigrants, but federal law gives the Secretary of Defense wide leeway in accepting military members deemed “vital to the national interest.”

Wright said DOD believes in “moving forward” on defining U.S. vital interests. Allowing undocumented foreign nationals raised in the United States to enlist would provide a larger pool of qualified applicants, as well as more diversity within DOD, she said. “But we think it’s very important to take a look at the MAVNI program that was established a while ago and see what that ‘vital to the national interest’ means,” Wright said at the hearing organized by Illinois Democratic Sen. Richard Durbin, chairman of the Senate Appropriations subcommittee on defense. Durbin for years has pushed immigration reform that would, among other things, allow children brought to the United States illegally to gain citizenship through college education or military service. Immigration reform legislation has passed the Senate but is stalled in the House of Representatives. And House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., said Friday he wouldn’t allow debate on a bill filed by a fellow Republican, Rep. Jeff Denham of California, to allow children brought illegally into the country to enlist.

Some House Republicans have bashed such efforts, saying they reward lawlessness. “Our nation’s military is full of dedicated men and women and to disrespect them by rewarding illegal aliens with citizenship is an insult,” Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, said in a recent statement. While undocumented immigrants are normally barred by federal law from the military, the law also allows the secretary of defense to make exceptions vital to the national interest, Durbin said. “If the House Republicans refuse to move immigration reform,” Durbin said, “the Defense Department should use its authority under current law to authorize the enlistment of dreamers,” as young immigrants raised in the United States are often called. The MAVNI program, which officials say has been most heavily used by the Army during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, is set to expire in September but might be extended. “The Department is in the process of reviewing ... program criteria,” Pentagon spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Nate Christensen said Tuesday in an email. “A final decision has not yet been made.”

Currently, Wright said, the MAVNI program exists to capture specific skills and language abilities — and the languages don’t include Spanish, common in the military and spoken by a large portion of the population who would be affected by immigration reform. The Pentagon and the White House are “joined at the hip” on the issue, and agree that immigration reform is of vital importance, she said. About 30,000 foreign nationals currently serve in the active-duty U.S. military as well as the Guard and reserve components, according to the Pentagon. For immigrants who hold legal residency, military service is a path to citizenship, with nearly 93,000 military members taking the U.S. citizenship oath since 2002.

Pentagon eyes specialized program to enlist undocumented immigrants - Stripes

See also:

Supporters urge a vote as military amnesty bill hits roadblock in House
May 20, 2014 ~ House lawmakers and undocumented immigrants rallied Tuesday in front of the Capitol, urging Majority Leader Eric Cantor to drop opposition to a 2015 defense bill amendment granting citizenship to those who live in the country illegally if they serve in the military.

The proposal by Rep. Jeff Denham, R-Calif., has won some bipartisan support in the House. But it appears in deep legislative trouble because Cantor, a Republican from Virginia, has said he will block any attempt to add the immigration measure to the must-pass Department of Defense budget bill for the coming year. Immigrants and supporters say the Enlist Act would provide a path to citizenship for thousands of undocumented residents who were brought to the United States when they were children and now want to serve their country and become legal citizens. The military now bars enlistment by most who do not have a social security number, but the services have leeway on the rule and nearly 3,000 foreign nationals with sought-after language and medical skills have been inducted since 2009. “These men and women want to serve the only country they know” and a shift in the military enlistment rules should be included in the National Defense Authorization Act, Denham said standing before the Capitol dome with about a dozen undocumented residents.

Abraham Diaz, 20, of San Juan, Texas, said he was 9 years old when he came to the U.S. and has since earned a 4.0 grade point average through high school and college, but his top goal is to serve in the military. “There are thousands out there who are doing this, who are fighting for this,” he said. “We want this legislation to go on to fulfill these dreams.” The NDAA is set for a vote on the House floor this week and supporters want a vote on whether to add an amendment to include the immigration reform. Meanwhile, a companion bill called the Dream Act has been introduced in the Senate by Dick Durbin, D-Ill., who on Monday held a hearing in Chicago to urge Congress to support immigration reform that would allow undocumented residents to serve.

The DOD is also looking at changing military induction rules for undocumented residents without congressional intervention. Officials indicated this week that its current program to allow foreign nationals could be expanded to those in the United States. On Tuesday, fellow Republican Rep. Mike Coffman of Colorado and two Democrats — Rep. Luis Gutierrez of Illinois and Rep. Joaquin Castro of Texas — stood beside Denham to support the immigration bill. “With so many youths in our communities encouraged to go down the wrong path, we should encourage the youth who want to go down the right path,” Gutierrez said. Castro said Congress members have sometimes left candidate positions open at military academies because even high-performing undocumented immigrants cannot be tapped to fill them. “Congress has a chance to change that this week,” he said.

But Cantor’s office said Friday that the House will not attach an immigration amendment to the defense budget, seriously weakening any chances of Denham’s bill passing the House. Typically, hundreds of amendments are added to the massive piece of legislation but Cantor controls which are considered. Conservatives have come out hard against Obama Administration efforts at immigration reform. Heritage Action, the influential lobbying arm of the Heritage Foundation that keeps scorecards rating lawmakers on conservative values, has been applying pressure to Congress to reject any loosening of the law and specifically targeting the Enlist Act in the House, urging the foundation’s 700,000 members to call their representatives.

The group called the effort to write reform into the defense budget “deplorable” and “simply terrible policy” as interest in the bill ballooned in recent weeks. “The Enlist Act creates radical and perverse incentives that will have a negative impact on our military and our immigration system,” Heritage Action Chief Executive Officer Michael Needham said in a released statement. “It has no place in a debate over the future of our military, which is currently reducing personnel.” But the debate may not be over despite the conservative blowback. The proposal could still be introduced as a stand-alone bill in the House — one not attached to a massive military budget that must be passed, Coffman said. “I just don’t think this issue is dead,” he said. Such a bill would face an uphill battle attracting enough Republicans in the GOP-controlled House to pass.

Supporters urge a vote as military amnesty bill hits roadblock in House - News - Stripes

 

[MaryL]

It's popular to "reform' immigration laws. That defies logic, rapist, jay walkers, gays or speeders all want to reform laws to fit their agenda. Now, we got Mexicans...those interlopers. Oh, they need their "rights" protected. Illegal aliens are such jerks, why do we bother with this crap? They have no sensitivity to American culture, but, then demand sensitivity...I can't stand this crap.

 

[DGS49]

It is easy to lose sight of the Big Picture here, but as a subscriber to this Board you should be thinking clearly.

(a) Should be U.S. be entitled to control the number and type of people to immigrate?

Clearly, the answer is "Yes."

(b) Should the U.S. control immigration in an orderly and rational way?

"Yes," again.

The whole "debate" on illegal immigration ignores these two basic points, because once these two points are recognized, there is no further need to debate.

We cannot deport everyone who crosses the border illegally, but we CAN make life very difficult for them and for those who facitate thier remaining here. But we are not serious about this. The phenomemon of "self-deportation" is real and effective. We should try it more often.

Only a tiny percentage of the U.S. population agrees with the wisdom of the bizarre Constitutional interpretation that grants native citizenship to any baby who happens to drop out of his/ner mother's crotch on U.S. soil. And yet NO LEGISLATOR has ever been willing to propose a law or Constitutional Amendment to stop this bizarre and counterproductive phenomenon - SHARED BY NO OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH.

"We have met the enemy, and it is us."

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Like one poster stated a work visa would be the simpler solution than attempting to deport everyone...

You can deport all you want but in the end illegal immigration will be part of our society because of our standard of living and social services...

So require all employers to either have work visa employee's or U.S. born employee's and if a employer is found guilty of hiring undocumented workers then fine them a certain amount that will cause them to close their doors for good...

 

[Rozman]

We have a Marine who crosses over the border by mistake into Mexico and his ass is thrown in jail.
Mexicans cross over the border knowingly and illegally into the US and we find ways to
reward them and say we are bad people and we need to mend our ways.

 

[Windship]

Drugs and people cross the border for the same reason : demand and supply .

There is a job supply in America and a demand for jobs in the south.
There is demand of drugs in America and people in the South willing to provide them.
Drug lords demand high caliber weapons and illegal American weapons make their way south of the border somehow.

I am not saying this is right. It is just the nature of markets.

There is no easy solution, as long as the wages in the US remain and there is a supply for Jobs people will continue crossing the border.

Build a wall with electrified barbed wire on top from SanDiego to Brownsville, Tx.
Place sensors in the ground to detect tunneling.
Place a squad(13)military every 1/8 mile.
How to deport 20 million illeagals???
One......by.......one.
End of problem.

 

[DGS49]

I support a large and vigorous "Guest Worker" program, whereby farmers and other unusual businesses (to be defined) can bring in a number of immigrants to work in their factories for a specific period of time, not to exceed three (3) years. Employers will have to prove that U.S. workers are not available or not willing to do the work. The "Guest Visa" will not include family members, and workers who are found to be with child will immediately be returned to their home country.

A unique minimum wage law will govern compensation of Guest Workers.

The Guest Workers and their employers will pay U.S. taxes at a fixed, nominal rate (no tax returns or refunds would ever apply), and they would pay the EQUIVALENT OF Social Security tax, which funds will be kept in Al Gore's Lockbox until they return to their native country, when it will be fully refunded to them - as an incentive to go back home.

It wouldn't be difficult to set up such a system.

In my opinion, the main impediment is the devious desire by our Congresspersons to pass a "comprehensive" immigration reform bill. "Comprehensive" bills have one primary purpose: to pass a bill that is so large and complicated that nobody can ever read it, and it can be stuffed with tons of pork and special favors to generous donors. "Comprehensive" reform is the enemy of real, meaningful reform, and don't forget it.

 

[Bush92]

Apache attack helicopters. When the body count rises along the border they will stop. Also, must empower our border governors to use the National Guard to seal off the security risk that is our border with Mexico.Perhaps a border excursion into Mexico might help as well. Have a death strip between the U.S and Mexico.

 

[Windship]

I support a large and vigorous "Guest Worker" program, whereby farmers and other unusual businesses (to be defined) can bring in a number of immigrants to work in their factories for a specific period of time, not to exceed three (3) years. Employers will have to prove that U.S. workers are not available or not willing to do the work. The "Guest Visa" will not include family members, and workers who are found to be with child will immediately be returned to their home country.

A unique minimum wage law will govern compensation of Guest Workers.

The Guest Workers and their employers will pay U.S. taxes at a fixed, nominal rate (no tax returns or refunds would ever apply), and they would pay the EQUIVALENT OF Social Security tax, which funds will be kept in Al Gore's Lockbox until they return to their native country, when it will be fully refunded to them - as an incentive to go back home.

It wouldn't be difficult to set up such a system.




In my opinion, the main impediment is the devious desire by our Congresspersons to pass a "comprehensive" immigration reform bill. "Comprehensive" bills have one primary purpose: to pass a bill that is so large and complicated that nobody can ever read it, and it can be stuffed with tons of pork and special favors to generous donors. "Comprehensive" reform is the enemy of real, meaningful reform, and don't forget it.

Your opinion is crap.
You just dont get it.
How bout; lets give a "guest worker" YOUR job.

 

[Windship]

Apache attack helicopters. When the body count rises along the border they will stop. Also, must empower our border governors to use the National Guard to seal off the security risk that is our border with Mexico.Perhaps a border excursion into Mexico might help as well. Have a death strip between the U.S and Mexico.

Now we'er talkin'.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

HOW TO FIX ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?

Enforce our immigration laws. Another amnesty without enforcing immigration laws will only lead to another 20 immigrating illegally and another amnesty in another 20 years. Laws do not work unless they are enforced. We set speeding limits and give tickets to those who exceed the speed limit so that people will not exceed the speed limit. Illegal immigration is not a harmless crime. It take jobs from Americans and lower wages and it hurt Mexico’s economy when it’s young worker leave. Self deportation must be encouraged and it is not a punishment but it is to right a wrong. It is not inhumane but the right thing to do. Mexico is more then capable of providing for it’s own. Americans are fed up with having to pay for the education and healthcare of illegal aliens and their children when they and their children are struggling for an education and healthcare. Is there some one in government that is listening to Americans. Americans are compassionate but their own poor come first and enough is enough already.
No where in our immigration laws is there a clause for amnesty. Self deportation and attrition will make things right. Then secure the border and enforce our immigration law or take them off the books. Amnesty by any other name is still the same.

Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants Still a Bad Idea

I just love that you used the analogy of speeding - who DOESN'T speed?

You can certainly curb speeding, but stop it?

Also, at what point do you spend too much money on this and ignore some other problem?

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Drugs and people cross the border for the same reason : demand and supply .

There is a job supply in America and a demand for jobs in the south.
There is demand of drugs in America and people in the South willing to provide them.
Drug lords demand high caliber weapons and illegal American weapons make their way south of the border somehow.

I am not saying this is right. It is just the nature of markets.

There is no easy solution, as long as the wages in the US remain and there is a supply for Jobs people will continue crossing the border.

Build a wall with electrified barbed wire on top from SanDiego to Brownsville, Tx.
Place sensors in the ground to detect tunneling.
Place a squad(13)military every 1/8 mile.
How to deport 20 million illeagals???
One......by.......one.
End of problem.

You didn't really address the cost of your "cure."

Cost seems to be missing in just about every 'fix' I hear about.

 

[Windship]

Drugs and people cross the border for the same reason : demand and supply .

There is a job supply in America and a demand for jobs in the south.
There is demand of drugs in America and people in the South willing to provide them.
Drug lords demand high caliber weapons and illegal American weapons make their way south of the border somehow.

I am not saying this is right. It is just the nature of markets.

There is no easy solution, as long as the wages in the US remain and there is a supply for Jobs people will continue crossing the border.

Build a wall with electrified barbed wire on top from SanDiego to Brownsville, Tx.
Place sensors in the ground to detect tunneling.
Place a squad(13)military every 1/8 mile.
How to deport 20 million illeagals???
One......by.......one.
End of problem.

You didn't really address the cost of your "cure."

Cost seems to be missing in just about every 'fix' I hear about.

What is the cost of I.Im.? And I dont just mean monitarally, I mean across the board.
You dont think it wiil work?
Cost...are you for real!?
Who gives a shit about the cost.
Cost....
Let me ask you, what part of the country do you live in?

 

[Windship]

what is the "cost " of yer boys war's in Iraq and Afgan??
How bout the lives, greiving families and the mamed???
Cost.....like the cost friggin matters

 

[CultureCitizen]

Build a wall with electrified barbed wire on top from SanDiego to Brownsville, Tx.
Place sensors in the ground to detect tunneling.
Place a squad(13)military every 1/8 mile.
How to deport 20 million illeagals???
One......by.......one.
End of problem.

You didn't really address the cost of your "cure."

Cost seems to be missing in just about every 'fix' I hear about.

What is the cost of I.Im.? And I dont just mean monitarally, I mean across the board.
You dont think it wiil work?
Cost...are you for real!?
Who gives a shit about the cost.
Cost....
Let me ask you, what part of the country do you live in?

The cost wouldn't be so high.
Barbed wire and sensors are cheap and it would take less than 300 million to put both of them ( solar panels included)

I am not sure they would be effective , as barbed wire can be cut and sensors can be disabled / stolen.

Now , the squads would be expensive , it would take some 20 billion per year to have the amount of soldiers / guards you are requesting: 250,000 guards watching the border. It is not too much comparing it with the rest of the US federal budget.

Still , I am not completely sure this would solve the problem. There is a "water baloon" effect with this kind of problems : once you squeeze in one zone you only provoke a movement to another zone. Once the land border is secure immigrants could come by sea ( or not ).

 

[Windship]

If you had a cancer and it needed to be cut out....would you worry about cost?

 

[Windship]

You didn't really address the cost of your "cure."

Cost seems to be missing in just about every 'fix' I hear about.

What is the cost of I.Im.? And I dont just mean monitarally, I mean across the board.
You dont think it wiil work?
Cost...are you for real!?
Who gives a shit about the cost.
Cost....
Let me ask you, what part of the country do you live in?

The cost wouldn't be so high.
Barbed wire and sensors are cheap and it would take less than 300 million to put both of them ( solar panels included)

I am not sure they would be effective , as barbed wire can be cut and sensors can be disabled / stolen.

Now , the squads would be expensive , it would take some 20 billion per year to have the amount of soldiers / guards you are requesting: 250,000 guards watching the border. It is not too much comparing it with the rest of the US federal budget.

Still , I am not completely sure this would solve the problem. There is a "water baloon" effect with this kind of problems : once you squeeze in one zone you only provoke a movement to another zone. Once the land border is secure immigrants could come by sea ( or not ).

Well, the military are already being paid as they sit on their butts on base.
When and IF they cut the barbed wire and DONT get shot, we simply repair the wire.
The sensors will be on the American side of the border and would be watched by the military.
We could actually use illeagals to build the wall...lol. Now wouldnt THAT be something!