How the 25th amendment works

[postman]

Amendment 25
Section. 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

From my read, once the VP and the majority of the cabinet invoke the 25th, the VP takes over as acting president immediately, and remains acting president until congress votes within 21+ days whether the president is unable to discharge the duties of the office.
If 2/3rds of both houses vote he is disabled, the VP remains acting president. Otherwise the elected president resumes the office of the president.

Anyone have a different take?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Amendment 25
Section. 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

From my read, once the VP and the majority of the cabinet invoke the 25th, the VP takes over as acting president immediately, and remains acting president until congress votes within 21+ days whether the president is unable to discharge the duties of the office.
If 2/3rds of both houses vote he is disabled, the VP remains acting president. Otherwise the elected president resumes the office of the president.

Anyone have a different take?

Just a little bit. (Not disagreeing, just clariifcation, based on MHO.)

Also assuming we are talking an incompetence type of situation and not a medical emergency leaving the President unable to fulfill his/'her duties.

#1 If the VP and Cabinet where to issue such a letter to make the VP the Acting President, the President can simply immediately notify Congress that he is in fact able to fulfill the duties of the office and void the VP/Cabinet's letter.

#2 Then the VP and the Cabinet could transmit to Congress "no he's really not" as a second letter.

#3 During the time that the President rescinds the VP/Cabinet letter #1 and the time letter #2 is created, the President is the President and can fire the cabinet. The only one he can't fire is the VP who could only be removed by impeachment. If (s)he does it fast enough, there will be no Cabinet to issue the 2nd letter.

#4 Finally, Congress has 48 hours while in session to resolve the issue, not a blanket 21 days. They have 21 days to return to session if Congress is not in session (i.e. on break). If they are already in session the 21 days doesn't apply.

Just my thoughts.

WW

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Clearly, Biden shouldn’t have control of the nuclear arsenal

 

[WorldWatcher]

Clearly, Biden shouldn’t have control of the nuclear arsenal

My impression is the thread is more about invoking the 25th if FPOTUS#45 win the White House and is convicted of felonies.

WW

 

[postman]

Just a little bit. (Not disagreeing, just clariifcation, based on MHO.)

#2 Then the VP and the Cabinet could transmit to Congress "no he's really not" as a second letter.

#3 During the time that the President rescinds the VP/Cabinet letter #1 and the time letter #2 is created, the President is the President and can fire the cabinet. The only one he can't fire is the VP who could only be removed by impeachment. If (s)he does it fast enough, there will be no Cabinet to issue the 2nd letter.

Just my thoughts.

WW

I thought about that, and nothing in the 25th precludes the 2nd letter, from being just the same as the first letter.
They could either have the 2nd letter already prepared like the first, or maybe even a photocopy of the first letter would meet the requirement.

The tricky part is the part saying ----- he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.

This seems to present a situation where the president takes back the office on day one, but if the VP etc send a letter by day four, the VP would have remained acting president. Putting into question all the acts of the elected president during that 4 day period.

 

[postman]

My impression is the thread is more about invoking the 25th if FPOTUS#45 win the White House and is convicted of felonies.

WW

Actually it's not a political question (which president) but the details of how the 25th works.
As they say, the devil is in the details, and some of them raise real questions.

 

[postman]

Re: the principal officers of the executive department

#3 During the time that the President rescinds the VP/Cabinet letter #1 and the time letter #2 is created, the President is the President and can fire the cabinet. ... If (s)he does it fast enough, there will be no Cabinet to issue the 2nd letter.
Just my thoughts.

WW

Executive departments are never without a head. If the Sec if fired, the assist Sec acts in their position. Remember what happened in the "saturday night massacre" at DOJ. Where the AG, Deputy AG were both fired, and the Solicitor General became the head of the DOJ.

The fire all the executives may not be feasible. because if their chain of command, includes a person who did not require senate confirmation, that person can't be fired by the president.