how quickly do proteins evolve ?

[Sherlock Holmes]

God dunnit is not a scientific answer.

That's true. If you believe that only scientific explanations are acceptable as explanations then that's your choice of course. The explanation for the presence of a scientifically explicable universe, cannot be scientific.

One cannot use science to explain the presence of a universe governed by science, it's clearly paradoxical to do so and paradoxical explanations are themselves not scientific.

All scientific explanations make recourse to laws and material quantities, these must exist in order for any material process to take place. So until material quantities and laws exist, we must seek alternative kinds of explanations.

Philosophers have recognized this for centuries as have theologists and meta-physicists, but due to our narrow education system in schools many grow up having no awareness of these kinds of ideas.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Not really.

There is no scientific test for God.

But there is evidence, the universe is evidence.

Therefore it's outside the realm of science.

Not really, science is about the natural world and asking how the natural world came to be is therefore in scope.

You're in the science forum. The religion forum is elsewhere.

Well "religions" take many forms, it typically involves belief in unprovable assumptions and so science is no less "religious" than theology.

 

[progressive hunter]

Not really.

There is no scientific test for God.

Therefore it's outside the realm of science.

You're in the science forum. The religion forum is elsewhere.

evolution is a religion that bastardizes science,,

 

[scruffy]

evolution is a religion that bastardizes science,,

No.

Your bastardized MISUNDERSTANDING of evolution is what bastardizes your religion, and gives it a bad name.

You clowns want to make butt stupid assertions about probability that would make any college kid with a brain start laughing, and try to pass it off as science.

And then when you're busted, try to pretend that your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

Well, it isn't. Math is numbers, there's no room for opinion. You either know WTF you're talking about or you don't.

You who pretend to understand God should start studying His handiwork and stop trying to deny it. All you do that way is make a fool of yourself, and give God a bad name in the process

 

[progressive hunter]

No.

Your bastardized MISUNDERSTANDING of evolution is what bastardizes your religion, and gives it a bad name.

You clowns want to make butt stupid assertions about probability that would make any college kid with a brain start laughing, and try to pass it off as science.

And then when you're busted, try to pretend that your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

Well, it isn't. Math is numbers, there's no room for opinion. You either know WTF you're talking about or you don't.

You who pretend to understand God should start studying His handiwork and stop trying to deny it. All you do that way is make a fool of yourself, and give God a bad name in the process

when did I ever say I understand god??

other than presenting him as an answer to your question I havent brought him up,,

you evos are sensitive fellows,,

 

[scruffy]

when did I ever say I understand god??

other than presenting him as an answer to your question I havent brought him up,,

you evos are sensitive fellows,,

In college I learned to RESTRICT SCOPE.

I don't make any claims about dinosaurs, you've never heard me do that.

I have stated repeatedly and clearly, that evolution is BIOPHYSICAL, it occurs at the level of DNA. Beyond that, it's a GUESS. The person who wrote the dinosaur article has no better understanding of evolution than you or I do - probably worse, since they seem to confuse lizards with birds.

I don't speak to fossils, species, or anything else. Only to molecules, because that's what I know about. I know a whole lot about molecules, and math, and brains. I try not to speak on topics I don't understand. Like dinosaurs and chickens.

Evolution is the development of complexity in the genome by repeated mutation and selection. That's it, that's all.

We don't yet understand ANYTHING about shape. We don't even know how a simple fruit fly works. How are going to speak on complex organisms like chickens and dinosaurs?

Goading on this point will get you nowhere with me. I'll just laugh at you if you try. Do not accuse me of being an "evo", because your idea of evolution is obviously way out of scope.

Restrict scope, and that will serve both of us well. I study molecules. Right now I'm studying the organization of the phospholipids in the myelin sheath of neurons. A claim has been made that they support quantum entanglement in the infrared portion of the spectrum. I'm studying that claim. I couldn't care less about "species", don't know and don't want to know. I deal with information, that's my stock in trade.

Yes it crosses over into DNA. That too is information. And proteins, and protein folding. If there is anything to be learned about shape, it's at that level first. Tell me how a cell knows which end is the head and which end is the tail. That's the beginning of shape. Wings, jaws, feathers, all too complex. Eventually we will understand how those macroscopic attractors work. Probably not in my lifetime.

 

[westwall]

Dinosaurs are lizards.

Birds are birds.

Read The Dinosaur Heresies. Compelling evidence that Dinosaurs were warm blooded, and yes indeed, birds are the evolutionary descendants of dinosaurs.

 

[scruffy]

Read The Dinosaur Heresies. Compelling evidence that Dinosaurs were warm blooded, and yes indeed, birds are the evolutionary descendants of dinosaurs.

My understanding is that birds and dinosaurs coexisted. Archaeopteryx?

But, I don't know anything about fossils, so I'll shut my mouth.

I don't really care, what gave rise to what. It's just one pathway among many possible.

I'm interested in the engineering. I don't want to take apart old radios, I want to build new ones.

 

[westwall]

My understanding is that birds and dinosaurs coexisted. Archaeopteryx?

But, I don't know anything about fossils, so I'll shut my mouth.

I don't really care, what gave rise to what. It's just one pathway among many possible.

I'm interested in the engineering. I don't want to take apart old radios, I want to build new ones.

Birds and dinosaurs are the same thing. So, of course they coexisted.

 

[scruffy]

Birds and dinosaurs are the same thing. So, of course they coexisted.

That's a little too much faith in the evo, if you ask me.

But you didn't, so I'll stick to my molecules.

Are you a biologist?

 

[scruffy]

No one's figured this out yet?

The question is: how is it possible that proteins can evolve faster than DNA?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The craziest idea ever is that nothing made an inorganic, unaware blob of something and that something randomly evolved into infinite complex self awareness

Craziness

 

[westwall]

That's a little too much faith in the evo, if you ask me.

But you didn't, so I'll stick to my molecules.

Are you a biologist?

Geologist

 

[progressive hunter]

In college I learned to RESTRICT SCOPE.

I don't make any claims about dinosaurs, you've never heard me do that.

I have stated repeatedly and clearly, that evolution is BIOPHYSICAL, it occurs at the level of DNA. Beyond that, it's a GUESS. The person who wrote the dinosaur article has no better understanding of evolution than you or I do - probably worse, since they seem to confuse lizards with birds.

I don't speak to fossils, species, or anything else. Only to molecules, because that's what I know about. I know a whole lot about molecules, and math, and brains. I try not to speak on topics I don't understand. Like dinosaurs and chickens.

Evolution is the development of complexity in the genome by repeated mutation and selection. That's it, that's all.

We don't yet understand ANYTHING about shape. We don't even know how a simple fruit fly works. How are going to speak on complex organisms like chickens and dinosaurs?

Goading on this point will get you nowhere with me. I'll just laugh at you if you try. Do not accuse me of being an "evo", because your idea of evolution is obviously way out of scope.

Restrict scope, and that will serve both of us well. I study molecules. Right now I'm studying the organization of the phospholipids in the myelin sheath of neurons. A claim has been made that they support quantum entanglement in the infrared portion of the spectrum. I'm studying that claim. I couldn't care less about "species", don't know and don't want to know. I deal with information, that's my stock in trade.

Yes it crosses over into DNA. That too is information. And proteins, and protein folding. If there is anything to be learned about shape, it's at that level first. Tell me how a cell knows which end is the head and which end is the tail. That's the beginning of shape. Wings, jaws, feathers, all too complex. Eventually we will understand how those macroscopic attractors work. Probably not in my lifetime.

now I understand your problem,,

you went to college and werent taught how to think but what to think,,

hows that working out for you??

 

[scruffy]

The craziest idea ever is that nothing made an inorganic, unaware blob of something and that something randomly evolved into infinite complex self awareness

Craziness

That part is easy.

It's called self organizing systems.

You can Google it, there's an extensive literature.

 

[scruffy]

Geologist

Okay. Scientist.

 

[scruffy]

now I understand your problem,,

you went to college and werent taught how to think but what to think,,

hows that working out for you??

Just great. I already knew how to think before I got there. That's how I got there in the first place.

 

[scruffy]

No one's figured this out yet?

The question is: how is it possible that proteins can evolve faster than DNA?

Anyone?

No one?

- grin -

 

[scruffy]

Anyone?

No one?

- grin -

Study tubulin self assembly.

Tubulin is an amazing molecule. It has about a dozen natural equilibrium states, that are determined by the ratio of GTP to GDP.

It has a thoroughly amazing chaperone system. The chaperone is a little factory that the subunits enter, then get sealed inside and the work gets done. When they emerge they've been programmed for a particular purpose.

 

[scruffy]

Anyone?

No one?

- grin -

Come on people.

The answer is three words.