How much should doctors make?

[beagle9]

No, I don't think most people would place a dollar value on their life, which is why the idea that a completely open market will solve health care costs is sheer lunacy.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. Yes, life is priceless, but if someone needs healthcare that costs millions of dollars, who pays for it? People can say that their life is the most important thing to them, but when people buy ipods before insurance, it sure doesn't seem like it.

Because the amount owed after insurance is so huge anyway that it's not entirely rational to pay the very high cost of individual insurance.

Exactly, and this is where the nation groans exceedingly over such a situation, because people aren't getting their money's worth in these situations anylonger, even when they are in a huge pool that should easily afford them and their situations as found within the pool, yet they are continually coming out of these situations broke or threatened for the rest of their days, even though they had these high priced policies in which the insurance companies that sold them to them "figured" upon, that they would never hardly use them, and if they did well look out, because you are then placed in a risk category from that point onward, and if have to (I think), the insurance company will figure everyway that it can to get you off of their insurance. They will do this or have done this, even if it means dropping entire companies just to get the higher risk clients off of them.

(Pre-existing conditions was a testement to what the insurance companies think like and act out by not accepting those in the past with pre-existing conditions), in which showed that they were in it all for profits mainly, and not truly for the health of their entire nation as it should have always been in conjunction with. When company employee's are placed in a higher risk category because of the usage of their policies over and above another in their groups, it sends a huge flag up to the insurance company, where as it begins the process of elimination afterwards in which I have seen. I have had insurance all my life offered through my companies worked for, in which were only a few, but I have had multiple policies over the years (to many to count), because the insurance companies would either drive up their rates to levels that were un-exceptable in which led to the changes, and even though personally I have never used these polices much (very healthy), I still got taken by the system over the years, and have been raped when it came to my input over the years for something I never even used, and even so I got kicked out of the insurance companies pools over the years (because just as it should be others were using their policies), thus causing the flags to fly against the profits or bottom lines that were expected always by the board.

I was a part of the pool that was supposed to be holding up others because of my health being good, where as the insurance company could still pay for peoples problems in the pool, and still make a decent profit while handling the individual cases because many were just like me who were also within the pool, but that wasn't good enough for them, because it became that they wanted to profit beyond what anyone could give to them, and thus the rollercoaster ride began in this nation for many upn dealing with these giants who controlled to much of the industry in certain circles (monopolies), thus limiting choice and leaving many behind because of the numbers game being played at these institutiions for profit, and not for ones health as it should have been always instead.

Should insurance companies be (non-profit) organizations in anyones opinions ?

 

[beagle9]

After reading all this I am begining to understand why there are so many more conservative doctors than liberal doctors.

I've been in medical imaging for over 20 years. There is no question that health care needs reform. Every case study I have seen shows the cost of insurance exceeding median salaries within the next 30 years (even ACA projections don't change that). Obviously this can not continue.

I have worked closely with ER Docs and Radiologists and have called quite a few of them friends over the time. I know what they put into becoming Doctors. The thing I think most people overlook when valuing the service is the amount of time and effort they have to put into becoming Doctors, not to mention the hours and call they are forced to tolerate once in their field.

Some specialty fields can take nearly 15 years of education (Radiologists for example). These guys work hard for 12-13 years - not having time for family, friends, or personal interests. Then they finally get out at 31 years of age and they are a half a million in debt. They are also still low man on the totem pole. ---- Just to contrast with me - I learned X-ray in the Army, rose quickly to middle management - lived relatively free to spend time with my family, friends, and interests --- and had made a half a million dollars in the same amount of time it take a Radiologist to become half a mil in debt...

I have great respect for Doctors, and when I hear of ER Docs making 120K a year - I am disgusted! I am now 43 Some of the Docs I work with are younger than I am. They work their butts off to pay off their debt. My house is almost paid for - my kids are nearly out of the house (theirs are just starting to go to school) --- In 5 years time, I'm 48 --- and that Doctor is 43 --- yet I have MORE disposable income than him? After everything he put into his career....

Well, we are beginning to see the trend already from the ACA - fewer people going into medicine -- more Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practioners - they may lower the quality of care but they lower the cost too... The really bright kids are going into different fields now instead of becoming Neurologists and Cardiologists -- that will leave slots open for less qualified people. We are starting to see Docs retire from medicine in their 50s because they know they won't make their retirement goals in medicine now. They are going into businesses. Smaller communities struggle to find enough Doctors - and in those communities many Doctors won't even see medicare patients because reimbursement is already so low they can barely cover overhead and red-tape is so thick they have to increase staff to cut through it --- and we haven't even began to see the red-tape as a result of Obama's death panels yet.

Yeah buddy, know that I will respect the crap out of you if you do indeed become a Doctor - but I'm begging you now, for your sake, RUN AWAY!!!! Take the easy road and become an MRI tech - work 5-8s with no call and do something productive with your money. Get married and have kids while you are young! Look around at those Docs in their 40s just starting to make a little money while you are preparing to ride into the sunset with your paid off house and kids arleady grown...

Pretty sad story when the slackers like me make off like a bandit while those hard working guys struggle to get on top -- missing the really important stuff like football games and graduations...

Whatever you decide, I'm saying a prayer for you right now that you get to appreciate the good things in life - that you love and are loved and that the peace of the Lord finds your soul.

Good story, now tell the complex one that caused it all.. You know the one about the corruption that had became the norm in many circles, and how so many had become corrupt whether be the doctors, hospitals or the insurance companies. Also when the government became involved in subsidizing the entire situation for many, it was like free money with no end, because government accountability had become non-existant due to it being so huge and easily taken advantage of.

Backing back down off of the high cliff, is a very precarious/dangerous and confusing thing, because their were so many on the bottle filled with greed, that it is hard to get them weined off of it, and this in order to balance the system back out and rightfully so.

 

[Obamanation]

After reading all this I am begining to understand why there are so many more conservative doctors than liberal doctors.

I've been in medical imaging for over 20 years. There is no question that health care needs reform. Every case study I have seen shows the cost of insurance exceeding median salaries within the next 30 years (even ACA projections don't change that). Obviously this can not continue.

I have worked closely with ER Docs and Radiologists and have called quite a few of them friends over the time. I know what they put into becoming Doctors. The thing I think most people overlook when valuing the service is the amount of time and effort they have to put into becoming Doctors, not to mention the hours and call they are forced to tolerate once in their field.

Some specialty fields can take nearly 15 years of education (Radiologists for example). These guys work hard for 12-13 years - not having time for family, friends, or personal interests. Then they finally get out at 31 years of age and they are a half a million in debt. They are also still low man on the totem pole. ---- Just to contrast with me - I learned X-ray in the Army, rose quickly to middle management - lived relatively free to spend time with my family, friends, and interests --- and had made a half a million dollars in the same amount of time it take a Radiologist to become half a mil in debt...

I have great respect for Doctors, and when I hear of ER Docs making 120K a year - I am disgusted! I am now 43 Some of the Docs I work with are younger than I am. They work their butts off to pay off their debt. My house is almost paid for - my kids are nearly out of the house (theirs are just starting to go to school) --- In 5 years time, I'm 48 --- and that Doctor is 43 --- yet I have MORE disposable income than him? After everything he put into his career....

Well, we are beginning to see the trend already from the ACA - fewer people going into medicine -- more Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practioners - they may lower the quality of care but they lower the cost too... The really bright kids are going into different fields now instead of becoming Neurologists and Cardiologists -- that will leave slots open for less qualified people. We are starting to see Docs retire from medicine in their 50s because they know they won't make their retirement goals in medicine now. They are going into businesses. Smaller communities struggle to find enough Doctors - and in those communities many Doctors won't even see medicare patients because reimbursement is already so low they can barely cover overhead and red-tape is so thick they have to increase staff to cut through it --- and we haven't even began to see the red-tape as a result of Obama's death panels yet.

Yeah buddy, know that I will respect the crap out of you if you do indeed become a Doctor - but I'm begging you now, for your sake, RUN AWAY!!!! Take the easy road and become an MRI tech - work 5-8s with no call and do something productive with your money. Get married and have kids while you are young! Look around at those Docs in their 40s just starting to make a little money while you are preparing to ride into the sunset with your paid off house and kids arleady grown...

Pretty sad story when the slackers like me make off like a bandit while those hard working guys struggle to get on top -- missing the really important stuff like football games and graduations...

Whatever you decide, I'm saying a prayer for you right now that you get to appreciate the good things in life - that you love and are loved and that the peace of the Lord finds your soul.

Good story, now tell the complex one that caused it all.. You know the one about the corruption that had became the norm in many circles, and how so many had become corrupt whether be the doctors, hospitals or the insurance companies. Also when the government became involved in subsidizing the entire situation for many, it was like free money with no end, because government accountability had become non-existant due to it being so huge and easily taken advantage of.

Backing back down off of the high cliff, is a very precarious/dangerous and confusing thing, because their were so many on the bottle filled with greed, that it is hard to get them weined off of it, and this in order to balance the system back out and rightfully so.

It really is sad that people believe like you do. Government is not a tool to stop the greedy. I know some docs who fit into that category, but for you tosuggest that it is widespread and that "taking advantage of people and the system" is the focus of Doctors as a group --- well, it is asinine...

Bad people will take advantage of ANY system you put in place not just in medicine, but in life. Paying the federal gov't a trillion dollars to fix the problem will not fix the problem --- just change it!!!

There are a lot of good things that could be done to lower the cost of medicine --- none of them them involve a trillion dollars (and growing) worth of gov't interference.

 

[beagle9]

After reading all this I am begining to understand why there are so many more conservative doctors than liberal doctors.

I've been in medical imaging for over 20 years. There is no question that health care needs reform. Every case study I have seen shows the cost of insurance exceeding median salaries within the next 30 years (even ACA projections don't change that). Obviously this can not continue.

I have worked closely with ER Docs and Radiologists and have called quite a few of them friends over the time. I know what they put into becoming Doctors. The thing I think most people overlook when valuing the service is the amount of time and effort they have to put into becoming Doctors, not to mention the hours and call they are forced to tolerate once in their field.

Some specialty fields can take nearly 15 years of education (Radiologists for example). These guys work hard for 12-13 years - not having time for family, friends, or personal interests. Then they finally get out at 31 years of age and they are a half a million in debt. They are also still low man on the totem pole. ---- Just to contrast with me - I learned X-ray in the Army, rose quickly to middle management - lived relatively free to spend time with my family, friends, and interests --- and had made a half a million dollars in the same amount of time it take a Radiologist to become half a mil in debt...

I have great respect for Doctors, and when I hear of ER Docs making 120K a year - I am disgusted! I am now 43 Some of the Docs I work with are younger than I am. They work their butts off to pay off their debt. My house is almost paid for - my kids are nearly out of the house (theirs are just starting to go to school) --- In 5 years time, I'm 48 --- and that Doctor is 43 --- yet I have MORE disposable income than him? After everything he put into his career....

Well, we are beginning to see the trend already from the ACA - fewer people going into medicine -- more Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practioners - they may lower the quality of care but they lower the cost too... The really bright kids are going into different fields now instead of becoming Neurologists and Cardiologists -- that will leave slots open for less qualified people. We are starting to see Docs retire from medicine in their 50s because they know they won't make their retirement goals in medicine now. They are going into businesses. Smaller communities struggle to find enough Doctors - and in those communities many Doctors won't even see medicare patients because reimbursement is already so low they can barely cover overhead and red-tape is so thick they have to increase staff to cut through it --- and we haven't even began to see the red-tape as a result of Obama's death panels yet.

Yeah buddy, know that I will respect the crap out of you if you do indeed become a Doctor - but I'm begging you now, for your sake, RUN AWAY!!!! Take the easy road and become an MRI tech - work 5-8s with no call and do something productive with your money. Get married and have kids while you are young! Look around at those Docs in their 40s just starting to make a little money while you are preparing to ride into the sunset with your paid off house and kids arleady grown...

Pretty sad story when the slackers like me make off like a bandit while those hard working guys struggle to get on top -- missing the really important stuff like football games and graduations...

Whatever you decide, I'm saying a prayer for you right now that you get to appreciate the good things in life - that you love and are loved and that the peace of the Lord finds your soul.

Good story, now tell the complex one that caused it all.. You know the one about the corruption that had became the norm in many circles, and how so many had become corrupt whether be the doctors, hospitals or the insurance companies. Also when the government became involved in subsidizing the entire situation for many, it was like free money with no end, because government accountability had become non-existant due to it being so huge and easily taken advantage of.

Backing back down off of the high cliff, is a very precarious/dangerous and confusing thing, because their were so many on the bottle filled with greed, that it is hard to get them weined off of it, and this in order to balance the system back out and rightfully so.

It really is sad that people believe like you do. Government is not a tool to stop the greedy. I know some docs who fit into that category, but for you tosuggest that it is widespread and that "taking advantage of people and the system" is the focus of Doctors as a group --- well, it is asinine...

Bad people will take advantage of ANY system you put in place not just in medicine, but in life. Paying the federal gov't a trillion dollars to fix the problem will not fix the problem --- just change it!!!

There are a lot of good things that could be done to lower the cost of medicine --- none of them them involve a trillion dollars (and growing) worth of gov't interference.

Well how do you think that we got to where we are in all of this to date ? I am sorry that the truth hurts, and I agree that there are many who were doing the right thing in life, but it apears that the bad outweighed the good, and so the government got it's way in the situation.

Now what the long term results will be or whether it was the right thing to do, is going to be tough to measure or will it be?

 

[atlasshrugged]

They should not be able to steal from MEdicare by billing them$350 for a 10 minute routine office visit. Medical supply companies charege medicare $10,000 for power chair that can be bought direct for $3.000.

What about for the hour spent filling out paperwork and calling a Medicare rep just to get paid? Is that worth $350? Because that's what our office has to do every time.

 

[atlasshrugged]

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. Yes, life is priceless, but if someone needs healthcare that costs millions of dollars, who pays for it? People can say that their life is the most important thing to them, but when people buy ipods before insurance, it sure doesn't seem like it.

Because the amount owed after insurance is so huge anyway that it's not entirely rational to pay the very high cost of individual insurance.

Exactly, and this is where the nation groans exceedingly over such a situation, because people aren't getting their money's worth in these situations anylonger, even when they are in a huge pool that should easily afford them and their situations as found within the pool, yet they are continually coming out of these situations broke or threatened for the rest of their days, even though they had these high priced policies in which the insurance companies that sold them to them "figured" upon, that they would never hardly use them, and if they did well look out, because you are then placed in a risk category from that point onward, and if have to (I think), the insurance company will figure everyway that it can to get you off of their insurance. They will do this or have done this, even if it means dropping entire companies just to get the higher risk clients off of them.

(Pre-existing conditions was a testement to what the insurance companies think like and act out by not accepting those in the past with pre-existing conditions), in which showed that they were in it all for profits mainly, and not truly for the health of their entire nation as it should have always been in conjunction with. When company employee's are placed in a higher risk category because of the usage of their policies over and above another in their groups, it sends a huge flag up to the insurance company, where as it begins the process of elimination afterwards in which I have seen. I have had insurance all my life offered through my companies worked for, in which were only a few, but I have had multiple policies over the years (to many to count), because the insurance companies would either drive up their rates to levels that were un-exceptable in which led to the changes, and even though personally I have never used these polices much (very healthy), I still got taken by the system over the years, and have been raped when it came to my input over the years for something I never even used, and even so I got kicked out of the insurance companies pools over the years (because just as it should be others were using their policies), thus causing the flags to fly against the profits or bottom lines that were expected always by the board.

I was a part of the pool that was supposed to be holding up others because of my health being good, where as the insurance company could still pay for peoples problems in the pool, and still make a decent profit while handling the individual cases because many were just like me who were also within the pool, but that wasn't good enough for them, because it became that they wanted to profit beyond what anyone could give to them, and thus the rollercoaster ride began in this nation for many upn dealing with these giants who controlled to much of the industry in certain circles (monopolies), thus limiting choice and leaving many behind because of the numbers game being played at these institutiions for profit, and not for ones health as it should have been always instead.

Should insurance companies be (non-profit) organizations in anyones opinions ?

They aren't getting their money's worth? So, their health and life aren't worth it? It's not a monopoly because every practice is trying to steal patients and insurance companies from other practices. People just have this strange imagination that everything should be cheaper so that they can afford their iPhones. If your insurance is charging you a fortune and not providing for your needs, get a new provider. If you can't find a better provider, maybe you should rethink your hypothesis.

 

[xsited1]

How much should doctors make?

Interesting question. Doctors in the US make 2-5 times what doctors in other countries make. Why? Here's one possible reason:

In his classic book Capitalism and Freedom ([ame=http://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Freedom-Fortieth-Anniversary-Edition/dp/0226264211]Capitalism and Freedom: Fortieth Anniversary Edition: Milton Friedman: 9780226264219: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]), Milton Friedman describes the American Medical Association (AMA) as the “strongest trade union in the United States” and documents the ways in which the AMA vigorously restricts competition. The Council on Medical Education and Hospitals of the AMA approves both medical schools and hospitals. By restricting the number of approved medical schools and the number of applicants to those schools, the AMA limits the supply of physicians. In the same way that OPEC was able to quadruple the price of oil in the 1970s by restricting output, the AMA has increased their fees by restricting the supply of physicians.

Good luck!

 

[atlasshrugged]

Good story, now tell the complex one that caused it all.. You know the one about the corruption that had became the norm in many circles, and how so many had become corrupt whether be the doctors, hospitals or the insurance companies. Also when the government became involved in subsidizing the entire situation for many, it was like free money with no end, because government accountability had become non-existant due to it being so huge and easily taken advantage of.

Backing back down off of the high cliff, is a very precarious/dangerous and confusing thing, because their were so many on the bottle filled with greed, that it is hard to get them weined off of it, and this in order to balance the system back out and rightfully so.

It really is sad that people believe like you do. Government is not a tool to stop the greedy. I know some docs who fit into that category, but for you tosuggest that it is widespread and that "taking advantage of people and the system" is the focus of Doctors as a group --- well, it is asinine...

Bad people will take advantage of ANY system you put in place not just in medicine, but in life. Paying the federal gov't a trillion dollars to fix the problem will not fix the problem --- just change it!!!

There are a lot of good things that could be done to lower the cost of medicine --- none of them them involve a trillion dollars (and growing) worth of gov't interference.

Well how do you think that we got to where we are in all of this to date ? I am sorry that the truth hurts, and I agree that there are many who were doing the right thing in life, but it apears that the bad outweighed the good, and so the government got it's way in the situation.

Now what the long term results will be or whether it was the right thing to do, is going to be tough to measure or will it be?

How did we get here? I'd like to think that science, research, and innovation have increased our capacity to treat patients 100 fold in the past century. Do you realize that a century ago we didn't know what proteins did? We hardly knew that DNA existed. Now, we have incredible machines to image, diagnose, and treat almost any disease or disorder. Do you think that is cheap? That is why medicine is expensive. Doctors making $200,000 a year is not that much to ask. Maybe the insurance system could be improved, but the solution does not lie in the government.

 

[PaulS1950]

Being a doctor today is a business - they have to pay their bills, buy their equipment, feed and house their family and pay the inflated rates for insurance. They should get paid enough to cover their expenses and have a bit of money left over to have fun with or save for a rainy day - just like everyone else. Some doctors pay $1,000,000 for insurance every year (OBs for example) How much should anyone make? As much as they can.

 

[KissMy]

Yes, I'm from Utah and in most counties the average elementary teacher starts at $32,000. I will still go into medicine regardless of these changes, but it bums me out to think that I'll work so hard for a decade just for people to tell me I'm not worth it. I find it comical that people whine about how expensive medicine is, but they never step back and realize how awesome it is just to have it available.

Don't let other people saying it's not worth it discourage you. Most of what they are blathering is political nonsense. Politics & laws change every few years while your education will take a decade. If the medical field looks bad going in then others will decide to not go into the field making you more valuable when you get into practice. Our population is aging & the demand for doctors will be high. The pay will be worth it & you will have more than you will ever need even if you do a lot of charity work.

 

[October]

If you are looking for a reason why doctors charge so much...... two words...

malpractice insurance.

Going thru school is ridiculously expensive too.

 

[editec]

I'm mostly hesitant because of the expansion of Medicaid to millions of people. It's a system with more paper pushers than providers and it's a pain in the rear for any actual healthcare to get done.

You need to talk to some REAL doctors and stop imagining that you know what you're talking about based on what you IMAGINE the government is like

I'm informed that medicade paper work is far easier to deal with (and to get paid by) than private insurance companies.

All you need to is compare the percentage of money spent by government on paperwork (3%) versus what private insurers pay (20%) and your can see the what NONSENSE your head is filled with.

But that's a topic for another day. A long term fear of mine stems from the general idea of the government getting a stranglehold on the largest sector of American business.


This leads into my ultimate question. How much should a physician make each year? What about a radiologist or a heart surgeon? Brain surgeons?

Tell me what you think. If you disagree with my earlier assumptions, that's fine too.

Giving any CASH NUMBER makes no sense as the value of money continues to change.

I'd say a fill time family physician ought to make about ten times the median salary of all workers in the USA. Right now that income ratio comes to about $210,000 a year

Specialists with advanced skills more, based on the difficulty of their speciality.

 

[midcan5]

I love all the assumptions in the OP, where do these assumptions come from and why?

Professional level jobs will always be find so long as they can't be outsourced. Anyone who has seen the care medicare recipients get knows one thing, government is a good for them. As for the rest, there is a reason bankruptcy is so high in America. Get sick or have a sick child in America and learn. The general tone of this thread is the usual nonsense, government is bad and causing all sorts of trouble, if it wasn't for that boogieman life would be so good. What BS and so tiring and off point.

"If Nikki White had been a resident of any other rich country, she would be alive today." http://www.usmessageboard.com/healthcare-insurance-govt-healthcare/235883-a-moral-question.html


I revised this but this will do. http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...241-answers-to-all-your-questions-on-uhc.html

 

[Katzndogz]

The primary reason for bankruptcy is high debt and the death of a wage earner. Not hospital bills, not doctor bills.

 

[beagle9]

The primary reason for bankruptcy is high debt and the death of a wage earner. Not hospital bills, not doctor bills.

Right now I have insurance yep, but it is higher than one can imagine per week (and I work everyday for a living), where as it is taking a large percentage of my earnings right now (single coverage), and sadly if I get in trouble with my health, I still would have to get help with the situation, because what is being charged in these bills are out of this world anymore. My friend had insurance also, but when his weekly premium went to around $165.00 dollars per week for him and his wife to be covered, it was over for him at that point, because he dropped it completely. He is now putting the money in the bank instead each week, and says that he will just take his chances on his own from now on. Why is the health care industry pricing themselves out of the market these days, and why is it being allowed to ? It makes absolutely no sense to me by what is going on now in this industry.

Medical break through technology is good and always needed, but it should never create situations like we are seeing right now that is going on in this nation when it comes to the high price of insuarnce coverage for working people in this nation, so it is nothing but a distraction when people hide behind medical science or break throughs as being the excuse for what we are going through now, I mean with these premiums that are being charged to us now.

Isn't it funny how the state government during a crisis (hurricane), puts a cap on gas stations selling gas at extremely high rates (gouging), during a time of crisis to it's citizens, but when the state run insurance agencies begin gouging in a time of crisis (economy bad), you don't hear not one peep out of the government when these things begin to happen, so I ask what is the difference in it all ?

Hec, I thought gouging was gouging no matter what suit it is wearing when it decides to take these certain routes or to do these sorts of things as companies decide to do now against American (working) citizens.

Kidding me right ?

Also how is it that Obama takes the notion that to suggest that we buy a policy or be fined, but the government cannot promise us what kind of policy we will be buying in the private industry, that will be suitable to our needs and our affordability as working citizens in this nation, and in which would empower the middle class once again ? It can't and so it lies when it comes to rebuilding the middle class in this nation, where as instead it is tearing the middle class down.

 

[PaulS1950]

I don't know what world some of you live in but for the past eight years I have been on medicare and my doctor can only shcedule 15 minutes with each patient because medicare reqires her to see a certain number of patients a day in order to provide a decent salary ..... This from the office manager of the clinic when I complained that I had an appointment for a certain time and I wasn't seen until an hour late. I asked if they would grant me my appointment if I showed up an hour late. I said the same rules should apply to them as to me. I shouldn't have to pay for a late appointment just as they charge for patients that don't show without 24 hours notice. She laghed and told me that they sometimes take "walkins" between the 15 minutes scheduled for an office call and that puts them behind. It is the doctor's responsibility to make up that time. There are darn few doctors that will accept new medicare patients now that since I have moved I am having a hard time finding a doctor. (family practitioner)

With Obama car it will cost me $1200 a month for insurance for my wife and myself, where do I get that kind of money on social security disability?

 

[atlasshrugged]

I'm mostly hesitant because of the expansion of Medicaid to millions of people. It's a system with more paper pushers than providers and it's a pain in the rear for any actual healthcare to get done.

You need to talk to some REAL doctors and stop imagining that you know what you're talking about based on what you IMAGINE the government is like

I'm informed that medicade paper work is far easier to deal with (and to get paid by) than private insurance companies.

All you need to is compare the percentage of money spent by government on paperwork (3%) versus what private insurers pay (20%) and your can see the what NONSENSE your head is filled with.









Giving any CASH NUMBER makes no sense as the value of money continues to change.

I'd say a fill time family physician ought to make about ten times the median salary of all workers in the USA. Right now that income ratio comes to about $210,000 a year

Specialists with advanced skills more, based on the difficulty of their speciality.

Talk to a real doctor? Like my father in law who has to wait 2-3 months to get paid by Medicaid? I agree that private insurance companies are just as bad, so maybe I should have expanded my definition, but even when I worked as a delivery driver for a medical equipment company during high school I saw how difficult Medicaid is. Here's a specific example: a patient was overweight and had hip replacement surgery. I had to call the hospital and convince them to add to their report to specifically state that the patient needed a hospital bed. Otherwise, Medicaid wouldn't cover it. That's right, Medicaid policies weren't capable of drawing the conclusion that a 300 lb man with a new hip would need a hospital bed.

 

[spectrumc01]

perhaps if employers paid a living wage in which his employees could afford their own insurance there wouldn't be a problem. The insurers get theirs, the hospitals get theirs, then the doctors get whats left. What do the patients get?....what ever the doctors feel we deserve. As they like to tell you, "sorry I'm ------- you, but the insurance company is ---------me, and the hospital I work for is --------- the insurance company. The insurance company tells us it's the lawyers f------ them. They all tell us it's the governments fault and that they are ------- everyone. While all this --------is going on no one has even bothered to ask the patient who they are --------. Answer : no one.

Why is it that when you read about medicare and medicaid fraud it is always perpetrated by doctors and clinics? Maybe doctors would get paid better if their peers weren't ------- it all up for everyone.

But, it is the lowly uninsured person, causing the whole problem.

Sorry just realized it's a clean zone.

 

[Old Rocks]

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. Yes, life is priceless, but if someone needs healthcare that costs millions of dollars, who pays for it? People can say that their life is the most important thing to them, but when people buy ipods before insurance, it sure doesn't seem like it.

Because the amount owed after insurance is so huge anyway that it's not entirely rational to pay the very high cost of individual insurance.

Exactly, and this is where the nation groans exceedingly over such a situation, because people aren't getting their money's worth in these situations anylonger, even when they are in a huge pool that should easily afford them and their situations as found within the pool, yet they are continually coming out of these situations broke or threatened for the rest of their days, even though they had these high priced policies in which the insurance companies that sold them to them "figured" upon, that they would never hardly use them, and if they did well look out, because you are then placed in a risk category from that point onward, and if have to (I think), the insurance company will figure everyway that it can to get you off of their insurance. They will do this or have done this, even if it means dropping entire companies just to get the higher risk clients off of them.

(Pre-existing conditions was a testement to what the insurance companies think like and act out by not accepting those in the past with pre-existing conditions), in which showed that they were in it all for profits mainly, and not truly for the health of their entire nation as it should have always been in conjunction with. When company employee's are placed in a higher risk category because of the usage of their policies over and above another in their groups, it sends a huge flag up to the insurance company, where as it begins the process of elimination afterwards in which I have seen. I have had insurance all my life offered through my companies worked for, in which were only a few, but I have had multiple policies over the years (to many to count), because the insurance companies would either drive up their rates to levels that were un-exceptable in which led to the changes, and even though personally I have never used these polices much (very healthy), I still got taken by the system over the years, and have been raped when it came to my input over the years for something I never even used, and even so I got kicked out of the insurance companies pools over the years (because just as it should be others were using their policies), thus causing the flags to fly against the profits or bottom lines that were expected always by the board.

I was a part of the pool that was supposed to be holding up others because of my health being good, where as the insurance company could still pay for peoples problems in the pool, and still make a decent profit while handling the individual cases because many were just like me who were also within the pool, but that wasn't good enough for them, because it became that they wanted to profit beyond what anyone could give to them, and thus the rollercoaster ride began in this nation for many upn dealing with these giants who controlled to much of the industry in certain circles (monopolies), thus limiting choice and leaving many behind because of the numbers game being played at these institutiions for profit, and not for ones health as it should have been always instead.

Should insurance companies be (non-profit) organizations in anyones opinions ?

Yes, the medical insurance companies should be non-profits. It workd well in other nations.

Watch The Full Program | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[Old Rocks]

The primary reason for bankruptcy is high debt and the death of a wage earner. Not hospital bills, not doctor bills.

Bullshit, simply bullshit.