How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[Anomalism]

society and government are not the same thing

government is a construct of society

That's why I mentioned context...

 

[bripat9643]

Why should I pay a higher percentage than the guy who's life ambition is to put hamburgers in a bag all day ?

If you're extremely rich you should do it because you can and that dude's life sucks a lot more.

That is straight from the Communist Manifesto! You knew that, right?

The Communist Manifesto is a worthy ideal.
If it wasn't, then no one would be fooled by it and taken in by the fact most communists actually are just capitalists intending to take over and become the wealthy elite.
Certainly one can not expect widows and orphans to pay.
Only those who can afford to pay should have to pay.
And those who can afford to pay actually are the ones who have benefited the most from the improvements the taxes allow for.
There is nothing wrong with the ideal of from each what they can afford to give, and to each according to need.
It is just implementation of ideals can be deliberately manipulated.
Not necessarily the ideal itself that is faulty.

"The Communist Manifesto is a worthy ideal."

Wrong.

 

[Anomalism]

Everyone who wants a say in the spending (a vote in the elections) should pay the exact same amount, maybe $100 per year. Let the government operate within its means and if you choose not to pay the $100, you get no vote on how it's eventually spent.

And what do you suppose would be the spending capability of the government in that scenario?

 

[bripat9643]

I dont think people should be punished because they are more successful. IE much higher tax burden. They already pay most of the taxes anyway.
They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

Taxes are not punishment.

That's true. Theft isn't punishment either.

 

[Orangecat]

Extremely poor people are not really capable of giving more money.

So the wealthy should pay more because the poor need a free ride?
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs?
Are you familiar with that phrase?

 

[bripat9643]

Why should I pay a higher percentage than the guy who's life ambition is to put hamburgers in a bag all day ?

If you're extremely rich you should do it because you can and that dude's life sucks a lot more.

It is not a rich person's obligation to pay more because other people make bad decisions

That makes no sense because none of the tax money collected goes to anyone else directly.
The closest any social program comes to being welfare is ADC, (Aid to Dependent Children).
And only single mothers can get that, and they still have to enroll in job training programs so they can get off ADC within a couple of years.
Over half the tax money goes to the military.

Everything that isn't the military is welfare.

 

[Orangecat]

And what do you suppose would be the spending capability of the government in that scenario?

The spending capacity would be 100% of revenue generated. Deficit spending should be illegal.

 

[Anomalism]

The spending capacity would be 100% of revenue generated. Deficit spending should be illegal.

How much revenue do you think will be generated?

 

[Rigby5]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

They owe nothing. Take Steve Jobs, for instance. He created a product that improved the lives of billions of people. Furthermore he provided jobs for hundreds of thousands of people. If anything, society owed him, not the other way around.

Not really.
All the work was done under DARPA grants.
And Steve Jobs in particular, has no technical skills at all.
He was mostly the talker who got banks to front money.
He actually really screwed up several times, like killed the Macintosh in favor of the Lisa.
The Lisa totally bombed, and if not for other employee secretly retaining the Mac, Apple would have gone under.
Jobs is also the one who screwed up the mouse for Apple, and insisted on it only having ONE button.
That was really dumb since the industry norm was already a 3 button mouse.

Apple products are always very marginal. They are way more expensive than they should be. There was never anything groundbreaking or particularly good about Apple products.
If they had any skills, it was really just in marketing.

 

[Rigby5]

And what do you suppose would be the spending capability of the government in that scenario?

The spending capacity would be 100% of revenue generated. Deficit spending should be illegal.

That actually is what the laws say as well.
The only exceptions are for emergencies, and while that makes sense during war or depression, current deficit spending is out of control in my opinion.
However, I have read good arguments about how it would be foolish to not over spend when interest rates are so low?

 

[Orangecat]

There is nothing wrong with the ideal of from each what they can afford to give, and to each according to need.

Subsidizing losers only produces more losers.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

The distribution of wealth is ultimately determined by the dominant military force.

The economic system is created by the government according to the laws of that government.

Without the U.S. government there would be nothing to protect the wealthy and guarantee their wealth.

So the more you have, the more you are obliged to contribute to the existence of the U.S. government.

 

[dblack]

Nope. Government is a parasite. Nothing more.

I don't think it's necessary to characterize it so negatively. More importantly, government is the "servant" of society. We don't owe it anything more than a paycheck for services rendered.

 

[Rigby5]

The spending capacity would be 100% of revenue generated. Deficit spending should be illegal.

How much revenue do you think will be generated?

Deficit spending can be useful if done for something that business can used and expand from, like the hyperloop.
But deficit spending on worthless things, like foreign troop deployments, actually compete with business borrowing, and harm revenue generation.

 

[Blues Man]

society and government are not the same thing

government is a construct of society

That's why I mentioned context...

even in context they are not the same thing.

 

[Blues Man]

Everyone who wants a say in the spending (a vote in the elections) should pay the exact same amount, maybe $100 per year. Let the government operate within its means and if you choose not to pay the $100, you get no vote on how it's eventually spent.

And what do you suppose would be the spending capability of the government in that scenario?

it would be exactly what the people want it to be and not a penny more

 

[Orangecat]

However, I have read good arguments about how it would be foolish to not over spend when interest rates are so low?

Overspending is foolish even in the absence of interest rates. It just creates a future financial burden that will eat into your future operating costs.

 

[progressive hunter]

That is straight from the Communist Manifesto! You knew that, right?

You seem to be a lot more familiar than me.

then you should educate yourself before talking about subjects you dont know about,,

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

That isn’t an answer. Exactly how did they create that environment?

Gates benefited because of DARPA investments that created microprocessors, the internet, etc.
Gates could not have made a cent if not for investments, research, and improvements payed for by taxes.

99% of what Gates beneffitted from were the ideas of private inventors. Who invented the transistor? A private company by the name of Bell Labs invented the microprocessor.

Microprocessor - Wikipedia​

The microprocessor has origins in the development of the MOSFET (metal-oxide-semiconductor field-effect transistor, or MOS transistor),[8] which was first demonstrated by Mohamed M. Atalla and Dawon Kahng of Bell Labs in 1960.[9]​

 

[Anomalism]

it would be exactly what the people want it to be and not a penny more

How much do you think is necessary to run this nation?