"How Mitt Dodged the Draft"

[editec]

So instead of returning to Stanford, Mitt went off to become a Mormon missionary in France, where he would spend the next two and a half years—while Vietnam became a slaughterhouse for the Vietnamese and many Americans drafted to slaughter them."

Tough assignment.

How heroic of him to have accepted it.

 

[jillian]

So instead of returning to Stanford, Mitt went off to become a Mormon missionary in France, where he would spend the next two and a half years—while Vietnam became a slaughterhouse for the Vietnamese and many Americans drafted to slaughter them."

Tough assignment.

How heroic of him to have accepted it.

nothing heroic about it.

but it wasn't draft-dodging.

clinton's student deferment wasn't draft dodging either.

 

[Stephanie]

And Obama served when?

hypocrites

 

[georgephillip]

So instead of returning to Stanford, Mitt went off to become a Mormon missionary in France, where he would spend the next two and a half years—while Vietnam became a slaughterhouse for the Vietnamese and many Americans drafted to slaughter them."

Tough assignment.

How heroic of him to have accepted it.

Wiki distinguishes between draft avoidance and draft evasion:

"Just as tax avoidance is defined as reducing or eliminating one's tax liability through legal means, draft avoidance is the elimination or mitigation of a potential conscript's military service obligation through some lawful procedure..."

"Some means of draft avoidance..."

"Seeking and receiving a student deferment as in the cases of Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney. This would be considered evasion if false or misleading academic credentials were used."

So...were Bill and Joe and Dick and Mitt avoiding or evading?
Maybe Pat Tillman knows?

 

[Sallow]

mitt didn't dodge the draft

stop making the left look stupid

"Dodge" would be kind.

Mitt advocated for the draft..supported the war effort..then went to France to bug the French and get into an auto accident with a French Catholic Priest and kill the a passenger in his car.

 

[Sallow]

And Obama served when?

hypocrites

Was there a draft that Obama supported?

What war could Obama have been drafted for?

 

[georgephillip]

"So who says that Mitt Romney is inconsistent? After all, what may have been his first recorded public political act was supporting the draft for ordinary Americans, forcing them to participate in a war waged in the interest of his own class."

How Mitt Dodged the Draft » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

When, not if, the US economy crashes loudly enough to focus our attention the same way 911 did, the Pentagon will no longer be able to borrow enough money to kill thousands of innocent Muslims on the other side of the globe.

That leaves Mexico for Mitt to mangle on behalf of Wall Street and the 1%.

 

[Politico]

Romney did dodge the draft.

Lie....

 

[JamesInFlorida]

"One of the many myths that have buried the true history of the Vietnam War is that the anti-war movement was motivated by selfish desire, especially among college students, to avoid the draft (a view that conveniently ignores the movement’s throngs of female participants, whose gender automatically exempted them from the draft).

"Quite to the contrary, students demonstrating against the draft deferment tests were specifically undermining and targeting their own privileges and exemptions, which, as they passionately argued, came at the expense of poor and working class people.

"At Stanford, a number of people actually disrupted the test.

"The young men involved thus proved that their goal was not to avoid the draft but to end it, since they had been explicitly warned that their actions would jeopardize their own deferments..."

"Enter young Mitt Romney, right on cue, waving a sign denouncing the anti-war students. He, like his fellow almost all-male participants in this pro-war demonstration, fervently argued in support of the war and the draft.

"But not, of course, for himself."

Mitt's yet another rich, white draft dodger who thinks he's entitled to be Commander-in-Chief. How many war$ will thi$ one in$tigate?

Can Mitt say M-E-X-I-C-O?

How Mitt Dodged the Draft » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

As a Mormon young adult male he was EXPECTED and encouraged to do a mission. If a Mormon eligible for Mission does not go and has no hardship preventing him his standing in the community and the Church would be lessened.

He is a practicing Mormon. His volunteering for Mission was about as mandatory as it gets. But you spin it otherwise cause well you are an idiot.

This. Mormons don't "volunteer" for the missions-they're called upon by the faith, and it's mandatory. Romney wasn't a draft dodger. Now Gingrich on the other hand...LOL

 

[pinqy]

Please, elaborate.

The evidence indicates he and his father took deliberate actions to ensure Mitt never got close to a war that he publicly supported.

Legal actions. He had educational deferrments...he was in college. He had a ministerial deferrment, he was a minister. Even if there had been no war, he still would have gone to college and still served as a missionary.

Nothing hinky about his actions at all.

Bush's actions were a little more questionable, if the allegations about his drill attendance are correct.

Clinton's actions were very questionable, even giving him the biggest benefit of the doubt, he should have corrected his status when the reason for his deferrment was no longer valid.

 

[georgephillip]

Legality has nothing to do with evading or dodging military service:

"Draft evasion is an intentional failure to comply with the military conscription policies of one's nation. Such practices that do not involve law breaking or which are based on conscientious objection are sometimes referred to as 'draft avoidance...'

"Those who practice draft evasion are sometimes pejoratively referred to as "draft dodgers," a term which was made popular during the Vietnam War."

Bush also didn't want to be the first one out of the helicopter in a war he publicly supported.
When he checked the "no combat service" box on his application for the Texas Air Guard, he answered all the questions about his courage and integrity.

I would count Clinton as just another draft dodger who got rich and famous from the sacrifice of others who weren't afraid to serve, either in combat in Vietnam or federal prison for refusing induction.

Draft evasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

"One of the many myths that have buried the true history of the Vietnam War is that the anti-war movement was motivated by selfish desire, especially among college students, to avoid the draft (a view that conveniently ignores the movement’s throngs of female participants, whose gender automatically exempted them from the draft).

"Quite to the contrary, students demonstrating against the draft deferment tests were specifically undermining and targeting their own privileges and exemptions, which, as they passionately argued, came at the expense of poor and working class people.

"At Stanford, a number of people actually disrupted the test.

"The young men involved thus proved that their goal was not to avoid the draft but to end it, since they had been explicitly warned that their actions would jeopardize their own deferments..."

"Enter young Mitt Romney, right on cue, waving a sign denouncing the anti-war students. He, like his fellow almost all-male participants in this pro-war demonstration, fervently argued in support of the war and the draft.

"But not, of course, for himself."

Mitt's yet another rich, white draft dodger who thinks he's entitled to be Commander-in-Chief. How many war$ will thi$ one in$tigate?

Can Mitt say M-E-X-I-C-O?

How Mitt Dodged the Draft » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

As a Mormon young adult male he was EXPECTED and encouraged to do a mission. If a Mormon eligible for Mission does not go and has no hardship preventing him his standing in the community and the Church would be lessened.

He is a practicing Mormon. His volunteering for Mission was about as mandatory as it gets. But you spin it otherwise cause well you are an idiot.

This. Mormons don't "volunteer" for the missions-they're called upon by the faith, and it's mandatory. Romney wasn't a draft dodger. Now Gingrich on the other hand...LOL

There's no credible reason why Mitt couldn't have served in a war he publicly supported before going on his mission. He not only refused to volunteer, he and his rich father used a variety of evasive techniques to ensure he wasn't drafted.

Mitt choose the dodge the fight in Vietnam for the same reason the richest 1% of Americans aren't dying in Afghanistan today...they send their war slaves to fight and their debt slaves pay for it all.

 

[gipper]

[/QUOTE]
There's no credible reason why Mitt couldn't have served in a war he publicly supported before going on his mission. He not only refused to volunteer, he and his rich father used a variety of evasive techniques to ensure he wasn't drafted.

Mitt choose the dodge the fight in Vietnam for the same reason the richest 1% of Americans aren't dying in Afghanistan today...they send their war slaves to fight and their debt slaves pay for it all.[/QUOTE]

WTF are you talking about? There is no draft today. So, your conclusions are most absurd and opinion suspect.

 

[georgephillip]

In case you're too indoctrinated to notice there is another illegal US occupation going on today, and the richest 1% of Americans aren't anymore likely to die in Afghanistan than their grandfathers' were in Vietnam.

Americans are entering a new Orwellian world where citizens exist to serve corporate interests and money power justifies every immoral act.

 

[gipper]

In case you're too indoctrinated to notice there is another illegal US occupation going on today, and the richest 1% of Americans aren't anymore likely to die in Afghanistan than their grandfathers' were in Vietnam.

Americans are entering a new Orwellian world where citizens exist to serve corporate interests and money power justifies every immoral act.

I don't disagree with some of that, but there is no draft today...so if the top 1% do not want to fight, they don't have to. You blaming them for not joining the military is ridiculous and nonsensical. And besides that, many sons of the top 1% are in the military.

It is also nonsensical to tie the power of the corporate interests and the wealthy with the failure of their sons fighting in the military. They are not related.

Yes, America is controlled by the elites, but this is only because unlimited government and the wealthy are working in tandem.

 

[georgephillip]

Can you provide examples of the "many sons of the top 1% (who) are in the military?"

The power of corporate interests and the richest 1% of Americans rests on two pillars: wars fought for profit which very few of the 1% die in, and the private creation of money at interest. War would end tomorrow if the rich and their families were required to be the first fatalities.

Every government in history has served the interests of its richest citizens.
Possibly what's needed is a wall of separation between private wealth and the state?
Or maybe we need a state where private fortunes don't even exist?

 

[gipper]

Can you provide examples of the "many sons of the top 1% (who) are in the military?"

The power of corporate interests and the richest 1% of Americans rests on two pillars: wars fought for profit which very few of the 1% die in, and the private creation of money at interest. War would end tomorrow if the rich and their families were required to be the first fatalities.

Every government in history has served the interests of its richest citizens.
Possibly what's needed is a wall of separation between private wealth and the state?
Or maybe we need a state where private fortunes don't even exist?

If you think are no one in the top 1% serve in the military, you are obviously mistaken. Remember Pat Tillman? Do you not think that many generals and admirals are very wealthy and many have sons and daughters in the military. Ever heard of John McCain?

Your answer to wealth inequity is to impose socialism....so that everyone is poor, but the elites....that is the exact wrong answer. We had the answer for many years in this country, but that has all changed. Pure free market capitalism in a constitutional republic is the answer.

 

[georgephillip]

Pat Tillman's pretty hard to forget.
I remember his thoughts on the legality of the Iraq war, in particular.

McCain and Biden have sons who served in war zones.
I can't think of any other members of the US Congress who've sent offspring to defend "freedom."
That's > 0.004% of House and Senate members.

"socialism

Any of various economic and political philosophies that support social equality, collective decision-making, distribution of income based on contribution and public ownership of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists...  [quotations ▼]

Are you implying the public has ever owned the productive capital and natural resources of this country?

"Free" markets that work equitably for everyone are markets free of undue rentier (FIRE sector) influence. Democratic government is the only method I see capable of preventing the investor class from rigging the market for their benefit.

socialism - Wiktionary

 

[gipper]

Pat Tillman's pretty hard to forget.
I remember his thoughts on the legality of the Iraq war, in particular.

McCain and Biden have sons who served in war zones.
I can't think of any other members of the US Congress who've sent offspring to defend "freedom."
That's > 0.004% of House and Senate members.

"socialism

Any of various economic and political philosophies that support social equality, collective decision-making, distribution of income based on contribution and public ownership of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists...  [quotations ▼]

Are you implying the public has ever owned the productive capital and natural resources of this country?

"Free" markets that work equitably for everyone are markets free of undue rentier (FIRE sector) influence. Democratic government is the only method I see capable of preventing the investor class from rigging the market for their benefit.

socialism - Wiktionary

Okay. So we can agree that some, albeit small, of the top 1% do fight. Of course, by the very nature of the top 1%, they comprise a very SMALL segment of our population. That blows up your first argument.

Now on to socialism. So, you think that if a country does not fit the definition you posted, that country can't be socialist? Is that right? If so, I have no further use in debating you.

 

[georgephillip]

According to Wiki the US is ranked 2nd among the world's military with 1,456,862 active personnel with another 1,458,500 reserves. So far, you've conceded three members of the 1% have served. SMALL is 3/2,915,362.

I'm not sure what your definition of socialism is; however, since the US is the only industrialized nation without a national health insurance program for its entire population, I don't see how we qualify as socialist in any meaningful sense.