CDZ How many things do anti gunners get wrong....let us count the ways...

[M14 Shooter]

I'm happy to entertain suggestions to make the press better.

You mean you are more than willing to entertain diminishing First Amendment Rights as well as Second Amendment rights.

No right is absolute, all come with restrictions.

All of these restrictions deal directly with causing harm to others and./or placing others in a condition of clear, present and immediate danger.
If this were the full standard applied to the right to arms. the NRA would barely exist.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Maybe your fathers suicide attempt was more of a cry for help than a serious attempt? Most men dont try suicide with pills, as they know a gun works much better and can cause an immediate death and thus no pain. In which case had all guns been illegal nothing would have changed.

You're quite correct in what you say but my father didn't have easy access to a firearm. If he had, the story might have ended differently.

Or not.

You are not taking my guns or my Second Amendment rights on the basis of a hunch

 

[alang1216]

You probably already know this, but your irrational fears are not a sound basis for removing a fundamental right.

My fears may be irrational but I disagree that gun ownership is a fundamental right. Whatever that is. Do you have a fundamental right to own a 155 mm howitzer or 50-cal machine gun?

 

[JimBowie1958]

My fears may be irrational but I disagree that gun ownership is a fundamental right. Whatever that is. Do you have a fundamental right to own a 155 mm howitzer or 50-cal machine gun?

The thing is, dude, you dont have to understand it; you still are not taking our guns.

 

[2aguy]

Gun safety and suicide are not related
suicide is a conscious choice and takes a deliberate act

Sure study suicide but don't call it a gun control issue because it's not

My stance on suicide is that it is a choice. it is not illegal. And no one has the right to tell another person they can't decide for themselves whther to live or die

I wonder how much you know about the subject. There are certainly people who make a rational decision, e.g., terminally patients, but for most it is precipitated by a mental disorder. Meaning it is not a conscious choice, after all you wouldn't say a toddler that falls out a window chose to die.

You are correct that it is a gun safety issue. If there were no more guns the successful suicide rate would likely fall, at least somewhat. A rather extreme proposal but if we could somehow prevent guns from getting into the hands of a potential suicide (don't ask me how, I have no idea) without too much impact on legitimate gun owners I think that would be something worth doing.

If there were no more guns the successful suicide rate would likely fall, at least somewhat.

Wrong.....Japan,, China, and South Korea all have higher suicide rates than we do...and they only allow criminals and cops to have guns...

And our non gun suicide rate is just about the same as the gun suicide rate......sorry...suicide is not a gun issue.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You probably already know this, but your irrational fears are not a sound basis for removing a fundamental right.

My fears may be irrational but I disagree that gun ownership is a fundamental right.

The constitution and the jurisprudence surrounding it disagree.
The right to keep and bear arms is as fundamental as the right to vote, the free exercise of religion, and the right to free speech.

Do you have a fundamental right to own a 155 mm howitzer or 50-cal machine gun?

Why don't you ask me about Poseidon SLBMs and VX gas?
The fact that rights have certain inherent limits in no way means the rights aren't fundamental.

 

[Hiryuu]

I'm happy to entertain suggestions to make the press better.

You mean you are more than willing to entertain diminishing First Amendment Rights as well as Second Amendment rights.

No right is absolute, all come with restrictions.

All of these restrictions deal directly with causing harm to others and./or placing others in a condition of clear, present and immediate danger.
If this were the full standard applied to the right to arms. the NRA would barely exist.

Oh Please, you are arguing with someone that doesn't understand the difference between telling people they cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theater, and the desire to go as far as stuffing a sock down everyone's throat and duct taping their mouths shut so someone doesn't yell "fire" in the first place.

 

[2aguy]

Gun safety and suicide are not related
suicide is a conscious choice and takes a deliberate act

Sure study suicide but don't call it a gun control issue because it's not

My stance on suicide is that it is a choice. it is not illegal. And no one has the right to tell another person they can't decide for themselves whther to live or die

I wonder how much you know about the subject. There are certainly people who make a rational decision, e.g., terminally patients, but for most it is precipitated by a mental disorder. Meaning it is not a conscious choice, after all you wouldn't say a toddler that falls out a window chose to die.

You are correct that it is a gun safety issue. If there were no more guns the successful suicide rate would likely fall, at least somewhat. A rather extreme proposal but if we could somehow prevent guns from getting into the hands of a potential suicide (don't ask me how, I have no idea) without too much impact on legitimate gun owners I think that would be something worth doing.

These countries have more extreme gun control than we do...and have higher suicide rates. Suicide is not a gun issue...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

 

[hunarcy]

Gun safety and suicide are not related
suicide is a conscious choice and takes a deliberate act

Sure study suicide but don't call it a gun control issue because it's not

My stance on suicide is that it is a choice. it is not illegal. And no one has the right to tell another person they can't decide for themselves whther to live or die

I wonder how much you know about the subject. There are certainly people who make a rational decision, e.g., terminally patients, but for most it is precipitated by a mental disorder. Meaning it is not a conscious choice, after all you wouldn't say a toddler that falls out a window chose to die.

You are correct that it is a gun safety issue. If there were no more guns the successful suicide rate would likely fall, at least somewhat. A rather extreme proposal but if we could somehow prevent guns from getting into the hands of a potential suicide (don't ask me how, I have no idea) without too much impact on legitimate gun owners I think that would be something worth doing.

The MOST common method of suicide is by hanging and it has a 70% mortality rate. Shouldn't you be anti-rope?

 

[alang1216]

You are not taking my guns or my Second Amendment rights on the basis of a hunch

To do guarantee that you have to ensure you have the majority of the US on your side. You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise. Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You are not taking my guns or my Second Amendment rights on the basis of a hunch

To do guarantee that you have to ensure you have the majority of the US on your side.

YOU need far more than that.
First, you need a majority in Congress.
Then you need 2/3 of the state legislatures.

You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise.

You have not offered a compromise.

Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

It can also strike gay marriage, Obamacare and Roe v Wade. your point?

 

[Hiryuu]

To do guarantee that you have to ensure you have the majority of the US on your side. You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise. Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

You by no means are offering a compromise of any kind. You are offering an infringement on our rights and nothing in return. We have humored you goof-balls for too long. If you think you have the votes of the people required to change the Constitution, then knock yourself out trying to. Otherwise, we are not obligated to entertain your insecurities any further.

 

[alang1216]

These countries have more extreme gun control than we do...and have higher suicide rates. Suicide is not a gun issue...

Suicide is a complex social issue. Guns may a small part of it. If there were no guns in the US would the suicide rate change? I don't know but I'd like to have that answer and the Dickey Amendment impedes that.

 

[alang1216]

The MOST common method of suicide is by hanging and it has a 70% mortality rate. Shouldn't you be anti-rope?

Let me know when you come up with a practical solution and we'll talk. The answer is the same to knives, pills, etc. I'm not against studying the matter though.

 

[hunarcy]

You are not taking my guns or my Second Amendment rights on the basis of a hunch

To do guarantee that you have to ensure you have the majority of the US on your side. You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise. Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

The NRA did compromise during the 60's, 70's and even into the 80's, but they found that the Left's idea of compromise was to make a deal and come back over and over again to "demand" more. EVERY law we have no was "common sense" gun control at the time and it NEVER solved the problem, just made our society more and more dangerous while limiting the rights of law abiding citizens while never solving the problem. When that happens, it becomes obvious that the goal of the anti-gunner is not to solve the problem, but to take away rights. Our society is now coarser, more dangerous and more lawless than it was before gun control was implemented. It's a direct result of limiting the access people have to firearms.

 

[hunarcy]

The MOST common method of suicide is by hanging and it has a 70% mortality rate. Shouldn't you be anti-rope?

Let me know when you come up with a practical solution and we'll talk. The answer is the same to knives, pills, etc. I'm not against studying the matter though.

YOU don't have practical solutions, so why demand one of me?

 

[alang1216]

You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise.

You have not offered a compromise.

Support for background checks and other recent measures being debated in the Senate hovered around 90% but none can pass.

Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

It can also strike gay marriage, Obamacare and Roe v Wade. your point?

The tree that does not bend will break.

 

[hunarcy]

You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise.

You have not offered a compromise.

Support for background checks and other recent measures being debated in the Senate hovered around 90% but none can pass.

Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

It can also strike gay marriage, Obamacare and Roe v Wade. your point?

The tree that does not bend will break.

The rock that doesn't crumble diverts a river.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise.

You have not offered a compromise.

Support for background checks and other recent measures being debated in the Senate hovered around 90% but none can pass.

Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

It can also strike gay marriage, Obamacare and Roe v Wade. your point?

The tree that does not bend will break.

Show me a tree that does not bend.

 

[alang1216]

YOU don't have practical solutions, so why demand one of me?

Do you support the Dickey Amendment?