CDZ How many things do anti gunners get wrong....let us count the ways...

[M14 Shooter]

There are no requirements for background checks for private sales.

This is a statement of ignorance or dishonesty.
Please tell us which.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You have not offered a compromise.

Support for background checks and other recent measures being debated in the Senate hovered around 90% but none can pass.

It can also strike gay marriage, Obamacare and Roe v Wade. your point?

The tree that does not bend will break.

We already have background checks
It is already illegal for anyone to sell a gun to a felon

So what extra background checks do you want?

There are no requirements for background checks for private sales.

Yet it is illegal for anyone even a private individual to sell a gun to a felon.

So if you don't want to break the law you have to make sure you are not selling to a felon

LMAO, okay, try and charge someone for selling a gun to someone without a dealer's license when they did not know they were a felon (because no background check was required).

Ask any prosecutor. I'm a lawyer, I know something about this. But blather on, I guess.

It is the law it's not my fault it can't be enforced is it?

But it's easy enough to find out yourself. there are places a private citizen can do background checks
Online Background Checks | BeenVerified

Or all you have to do is only sell to people who already have a state CCW permit then you know they passed every background check the state required

It's up to you not to break the law

 

[GaryDog]

Support for background checks and other recent measures being debated in the Senate hovered around 90% but none can pass.
The tree that does not bend will break.

We already have background checks
It is already illegal for anyone to sell a gun to a felon

So what extra background checks do you want?

There are no requirements for background checks for private sales.

Yet it is illegal for anyone even a private individual to sell a gun to a felon.

So if you don't want to break the law you have to make sure you are not selling to a felon

LMAO, okay, try and charge someone for selling a gun to someone without a dealer's license when they did not know they were a felon (because no background check was required).

Ask any prosecutor. I'm a lawyer, I know something about this. But blather on, I guess.

It is the law it's not my fault it can't be enforced is it?

But it's easy enough to find out yourself. there are places a private citizen can do background checks
Online Background Checks | BeenVerified

Or all you have to do is only sell to people who already have a state CCW permit then you know they passed every background check the state required

It's up to you not to break the law

It's not illegal if you don't know they're a felon. And you wouldn't know without a background check.

Is this really that complicated?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I understand it just fine
I lived with a wacko depressive mother

Your life your choice. No one has a right to tell you that you must live. It is the most fundamental of fundamental rights

Like I said, you fail to understand the nature of Depression. Just because you've watched someone die of cancer doesn't make you an oncologist. It's like you're blaming her for her own disease.

But thank you for helping us understand YOU.

I didn't blame her at all.

So don't tell me what I did or didn't do when you don't know shit about the situation

You used the word "whacko". Was that meant to be a term of endearment? Or are you just new to the language?

It is an appropriate term for my mother,

You never met her so like I said you don't know shit

Okay, so she's whacko for other reasons that you didn't deem relevant to depression? Cool, I guess.

Then you understand Depression is a disease, and suicidal is preventable. Do you similarly support the cessation of cancer treatment in favor of shooting them?

If the person wants treatment his choice
If the person doesn't want to live anymore his choice

it really isn't a difficult concept

 

[GaryDog]

There are no requirements for background checks for private sales.

This is a statement of ignorance or dishonesty.
Please tell us which.

Take it up with SkullPilot, he's agreeing with me.

 

[GaryDog]

Like I said, you fail to understand the nature of Depression. Just because you've watched someone die of cancer doesn't make you an oncologist. It's like you're blaming her for her own disease.

But thank you for helping us understand YOU.

I didn't blame her at all.

So don't tell me what I did or didn't do when you don't know shit about the situation

You used the word "whacko". Was that meant to be a term of endearment? Or are you just new to the language?

It is an appropriate term for my mother,

You never met her so like I said you don't know shit

Okay, so she's whacko for other reasons that you didn't deem relevant to depression? Cool, I guess.

Then you understand Depression is a disease, and suicidal is preventable. Do you similarly support the cessation of cancer treatment in favor of shooting them?

If the person wants treatment his choice
If the person doesn't want to live anymore his choice

it really isn't a difficult concept

And there are many ways to push one choice or another on people through policy.

I assume you're Pro Choice?

 

[Skull Pilot]

We already have background checks
It is already illegal for anyone to sell a gun to a felon

So what extra background checks do you want?

There are no requirements for background checks for private sales.

Yet it is illegal for anyone even a private individual to sell a gun to a felon.

So if you don't want to break the law you have to make sure you are not selling to a felon

LMAO, okay, try and charge someone for selling a gun to someone without a dealer's license when they did not know they were a felon (because no background check was required).

Ask any prosecutor. I'm a lawyer, I know something about this. But blather on, I guess.

It is the law it's not my fault it can't be enforced is it?

But it's easy enough to find out yourself. there are places a private citizen can do background checks
Online Background Checks | BeenVerified

Or all you have to do is only sell to people who already have a state CCW permit then you know they passed every background check the state required

It's up to you not to break the law

It's not illegal if you don't know they're a felon. And you wouldn't know without a background check.

Is this really that complicated?

Didn't I just tell you anyone can do a background check on anyone and? I even gave a link to just one of the many providers of the service

Can you not read?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I didn't blame her at all.

So don't tell me what I did or didn't do when you don't know shit about the situation

You used the word "whacko". Was that meant to be a term of endearment? Or are you just new to the language?

It is an appropriate term for my mother,

You never met her so like I said you don't know shit

Okay, so she's whacko for other reasons that you didn't deem relevant to depression? Cool, I guess.

Then you understand Depression is a disease, and suicidal is preventable. Do you similarly support the cessation of cancer treatment in favor of shooting them?

If the person wants treatment his choice
If the person doesn't want to live anymore his choice

it really isn't a difficult concept

And there are many ways to push one choice or another on people through policy.

I assume you're Pro Choice?

I am so what?

 

[GaryDog]

There are no requirements for background checks for private sales.

Yet it is illegal for anyone even a private individual to sell a gun to a felon.

So if you don't want to break the law you have to make sure you are not selling to a felon

LMAO, okay, try and charge someone for selling a gun to someone without a dealer's license when they did not know they were a felon (because no background check was required).

Ask any prosecutor. I'm a lawyer, I know something about this. But blather on, I guess.

It is the law it's not my fault it can't be enforced is it?

But it's easy enough to find out yourself. there are places a private citizen can do background checks
Online Background Checks | BeenVerified

Or all you have to do is only sell to people who already have a state CCW permit then you know they passed every background check the state required

It's up to you not to break the law

It's not illegal if you don't know they're a felon. And you wouldn't know without a background check.

Is this really that complicated?

Didn't I just tell you anyone can do a background check on anyone and? I even gave a link to just one of the many providers of the service

Can you not read?

They can. They're not compelled. All efforts to make it a requirement have been thwarted. Why? Because the NRA is all about increasing revenues for their clients (gun manufacturers). If a few six-year-olds get shot up? Well we just need more guns!

 

[M14 Shooter]

This is a statement of ignorance or dishonesty.
Please tell us which.

Take it up with SkullPilot, he's agreeing with me.

This does not change the fact that YOU speak from ignorance or dishonesty.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yet it is illegal for anyone even a private individual to sell a gun to a felon.

So if you don't want to break the law you have to make sure you are not selling to a felon

LMAO, okay, try and charge someone for selling a gun to someone without a dealer's license when they did not know they were a felon (because no background check was required).

Ask any prosecutor. I'm a lawyer, I know something about this. But blather on, I guess.

It is the law it's not my fault it can't be enforced is it?

But it's easy enough to find out yourself. there are places a private citizen can do background checks
Online Background Checks | BeenVerified

Or all you have to do is only sell to people who already have a state CCW permit then you know they passed every background check the state required

It's up to you not to break the law

It's not illegal if you don't know they're a felon. And you wouldn't know without a background check.

Is this really that complicated?

Didn't I just tell you anyone can do a background check on anyone and? I even gave a link to just one of the many providers of the service

Can you not read?

They can. They're not compelled. All efforts to make it a requirement have been thwarted. Why? Because the NRA is all about increasing revenues for their clients (gun manufacturers). If a few six-year-olds get shot up? Well we just need more guns!

If it's found they sold a gun to a felon they will be tried.

If they want to break the law no law will stop them

All any lobby group can do is advocate for or against a law. They have no power beyond that. Take it up with your representatives since the buck stops with them

 

[GaryDog]

LMAO, okay, try and charge someone for selling a gun to someone without a dealer's license when they did not know they were a felon (because no background check was required).

Ask any prosecutor. I'm a lawyer, I know something about this. But blather on, I guess.

It is the law it's not my fault it can't be enforced is it?

But it's easy enough to find out yourself. there are places a private citizen can do background checks
Online Background Checks | BeenVerified

Or all you have to do is only sell to people who already have a state CCW permit then you know they passed every background check the state required

It's up to you not to break the law

It's not illegal if you don't know they're a felon. And you wouldn't know without a background check.

Is this really that complicated?

Didn't I just tell you anyone can do a background check on anyone and? I even gave a link to just one of the many providers of the service

Can you not read?

They can. They're not compelled. All efforts to make it a requirement have been thwarted. Why? Because the NRA is all about increasing revenues for their clients (gun manufacturers). If a few six-year-olds get shot up? Well we just need more guns!

If it's found they sold a gun to a felon they will be tried.

If they want to break the law no law will stop them

All any lobby group can do is advocate for or against a law. They have no power beyond that. Take it up with your representatives since the buck stops with them

Find one instance of this ever happening with someone who did not have actual knowledge they sold to a felon and had no legal requirement to do a background search.

Find.

One.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It is the law it's not my fault it can't be enforced is it?

But it's easy enough to find out yourself. there are places a private citizen can do background checks
Online Background Checks | BeenVerified

Or all you have to do is only sell to people who already have a state CCW permit then you know they passed every background check the state required

It's up to you not to break the law

It's not illegal if you don't know they're a felon. And you wouldn't know without a background check.

Is this really that complicated?

Didn't I just tell you anyone can do a background check on anyone and? I even gave a link to just one of the many providers of the service

Can you not read?

They can. They're not compelled. All efforts to make it a requirement have been thwarted. Why? Because the NRA is all about increasing revenues for their clients (gun manufacturers). If a few six-year-olds get shot up? Well we just need more guns!

If it's found they sold a gun to a felon they will be tried.

If they want to break the law no law will stop them

All any lobby group can do is advocate for or against a law. They have no power beyond that. Take it up with your representatives since the buck stops with them

Find one instance of this ever happening with someone who did not have actual knowledge they sold to a felon and had no legal requirement to do a background search.

Find.

One.

Don't have to. I am not responsible if someone else breaks the law.

I have no obligation to stop someone from breaking the law

Take it up with the law enforcement arm of the government

 

[GaryDog]

It's not illegal if you don't know they're a felon. And you wouldn't know without a background check.

Is this really that complicated?

Didn't I just tell you anyone can do a background check on anyone and? I even gave a link to just one of the many providers of the service

Can you not read?

They can. They're not compelled. All efforts to make it a requirement have been thwarted. Why? Because the NRA is all about increasing revenues for their clients (gun manufacturers). If a few six-year-olds get shot up? Well we just need more guns!

If it's found they sold a gun to a felon they will be tried.

If they want to break the law no law will stop them

All any lobby group can do is advocate for or against a law. They have no power beyond that. Take it up with your representatives since the buck stops with them

Find one instance of this ever happening with someone who did not have actual knowledge they sold to a felon and had no legal requirement to do a background search.

Find.

One.

Don't have to. I am not responsible if someone else breaks the law.

I have no obligation to stop someone from breaking the law

That's because it's not a crime.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Didn't I just tell you anyone can do a background check on anyone and? I even gave a link to just one of the many providers of the service

Can you not read?

They can. They're not compelled. All efforts to make it a requirement have been thwarted. Why? Because the NRA is all about increasing revenues for their clients (gun manufacturers). If a few six-year-olds get shot up? Well we just need more guns!

If it's found they sold a gun to a felon they will be tried.

If they want to break the law no law will stop them

All any lobby group can do is advocate for or against a law. They have no power beyond that. Take it up with your representatives since the buck stops with them

Find one instance of this ever happening with someone who did not have actual knowledge they sold to a felon and had no legal requirement to do a background search.

Find.

One.

Don't have to. I am not responsible if someone else breaks the law.

I have no obligation to stop someone from breaking the law

That's because it's not a crime.

It is where I live

despp: Firearms

 

[2aguy]

These countries have more extreme gun control than we do...and have higher suicide rates. Suicide is not a gun issue...

Suicide is a complex social issue. Guns may a small part of it. If there were no guns in the US would the suicide rate change? I don't know but I'd like to have that answer and the Dickey Amendment impedes that.

Yes...the people who would have used guns would use what the other half use...just like in Japan, China and South Korea and all those gun controlled countries in Europe.

 

[2aguy]

You are not taking my guns or my Second Amendment rights on the basis of a hunch

To do guarantee that you have to ensure you have the majority of the US on your side. You can dig in your heels, like the NRA does or you can reach out to folks like me with concerns and compromise. Remember, it is the SCOTUS that interpreted the 2nd as a personal right. With new court members it could be reinterpreted to mean a right to form a militia.

We have reached out, with facts, the truth and reality....then that runs up agains paranoia and intentional misinformation from the anti gunners........

 

[JimBowie1958]

 

[2aguy]

These countries have more extreme gun control than we do...and have higher suicide rates. Suicide is not a gun issue...

Suicide is a complex social issue. Guns may a small part of it. If there were no guns in the US would the suicide rate change? I don't know but I'd like to have that answer and the Dickey Amendment impedes that.

The CDC has not been stopped from researching gun violence...when are you guys going to stop quoting anti gun lies....

these are just some of the gun research the CDC has done........they just can't lie and use their research to violate Civil Rights....which they were doing in the 1990s when they were using biased research to attack gun ownership.....

This is some gun research from the CEC in 2006....

Violence-Related Firearm Deaths Among Residents of Metropolitan Areas and Cities --- United States, 2006--2007

And this one....

Source of Firearms Used by Students in School-Associated Violent Deaths --- United States, 1992--1999

And this one....

http://www.thecommunityguide.org/violence/viol-AJPM-evrev-firearms-law.pdf

And this one....

Surveillance for Fatal and Nonfatal Firearm-Related Injuries --- United States, 1993--1998

And this one....

Firearm Homicides and Suicides in Major Metropolitan Areas — United States, 2006–2007 and 2009–2010

And this one...

Indoor Firing Ranges and Elevated Blood Lead Levels — United States, 2002–2013

And this one....

Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children -- 26 Industrialized Countries


==================

The Deleware study of 2015...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/us/cdc-gun-violence-wilmington.html?_r=0

When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.



They were here to examine gun violence.

This city of about 70,000 had a 45 percent jump in shootings from 2011 to 2013, and the violence has remained stubbornly high; 25 shooting deaths have been reported this year, slightly more than last year, according to the mayor’s office
.-------



The final report, which has been submitted to the state, reached a conclusion that many here said they already knew: that there are certain patterns in the lives of many who commit gun violence.

“The majority of individuals involved in urban firearm violence are young men with substantial violence involvement preceding the more serious offense of a firearm crime,” the report said. “Our findings suggest that integrating data systems could help these individuals better receive the early, comprehensive help that they need to prevent violence involvement.”

Researchers analyzed data on 569 people charged with firearm crimes from 2009 to May 21, 2014, and looked for certain risk factors in their lives, such as whether they had been unemployed, had received help from assistance programs, had been possible victims of child abuse, or had been shot or stabbed. The idea was to show that linking such data could create a better understanding of who might need help before becoming involved in violence.

 

[2aguy]

YOU don't have practical solutions, so why demand one of me?

Do you support the Dickey Amendment?

I don't see anything wrong with not spending federal money to advocate guns or gun control.

You can still do research you just can't use the results to advocate for guns or gun control

The CDC does studies, and produces findings. That's not "advocacy", that's science. The kind of science that made things like this message board and your computer/phone possible.

Wrong again...this is what they were doing....

Why Congress stopped gun control activism at the CDC

I was one of three medical doctors who testified before the House’s Labor, Health, Human Services, and Education Appropriations Subcommittee on March 6, 1996 about the CDC’s misdeeds. (Note: This testimony and related events are described in my three-part documented historical series). Here is what we showed the committee:

• Dr. Arthur Kellermann’s1993 New England Journal of Medicine article that launched his career as a rock star gun control advocate and gave rise to the much-repeated “three times” fallacy. His research was supported by two CDC grants.

Kellermann and his colleagues used the case control method, traditionally an epidemiology research tool, to claim that having a gun in the home triples the risk of becoming a homicide victim. In the article Kellermann admitted that “a majority of the homicides (50.9 percent) occurred in the context of a quarrel or a romantic triangle.” Still another 30 percent “were related to drug dealing” or “occurred during the commission of another felony, such as a robbery, rape, or burglary.”

In summary, the CDC funded a flawed study of crime-prone inner city residents who had been murdered in their homes. The authors then tried to equate this wildly unrepresentative group with typical American gun owners. The committee members were not amused.

• The Winter 1993 CDC official publication, Public Health Policy for Preventing Violence, coauthored by CDC official Dr. Mark Rosenberg. This taxpayer-funded gun control polemic offered two strategies for preventing firearm injuries—“restrictive licensing (for example, only police, military, guards, and so on)” and “prohibit gun ownership.”
• The brazen public comments of top CDC officials, made at a time when gun prohibitionists were much more candid about their political goals.

“We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities.” (P.W. O’Carroll, Acting Section Head of Division of Injury Control, CDC, quoted in Marsha F. Goldsmith, “Epidemiologists Aim at New Target: Health Risk of Handgun Proliferation,” Journal of the American Medical Association vol. 261 no. 5, February 3, 1989, pp. 675-76.) Dr. O’Carroll later said he had been misquoted.

But his successor Dr. Mark Rosenberg was quoted in the Washington Post as wanting his agency to create a public perception of firearms as “dirty, deadly—and banned.” (William Raspberry, “Sick People With Guns,” Washington Post, October 19, 1994.

• CDC Grant #R49/CCR903697-06 to the Trauma Foundation, a San Francisco gun control advocacy group, supporting a newsletter that frankly advocated gun control.