How Many Americans Have to Die for there to be a Crisis?

[Carl in Michigan]

Answer my question:
Why are tens of thousands of deaths due to gun homicides per year not a crisis, but this is?

1. Because the murder in which guns are used are not necessarily done in violation of law, so the government is legally off the hook.

2. The government is responsible for keeping illegal immigrants out, so it is at fault for ANY crimes they commit.

3. If the difference between points 1 and 2 are indecipherable to you, I cannot help your dysfunction.

So the government is calling a national emergency based on its own failure to act?

On it's inability to act.............One branch .......as the others REFUSE TO ACT..........they don't want to fix it........they like it broken......

So..........every LEGAL OPTION to build it is being used now..........having the military build it would make it Much cheaper to build. Labor is a major portion of the costs..........The military are already being paid.........Save the taxpayers money.

It's an INVESTMENT anyway, not an expense.

 

[OldLady]

So the government is calling a national emergency based on its own failure to act?

No, more based on the effects of its failure and its inability to address the problem otherwise.

It was a much more serious problem in 2006, but Bush did not call a national emergency. He dealt with it, somehow or other.
There were twice as many illegals getting over in 2006 as are coming now.

And I heard on the radio this morning that the Pres says he is NOT planning on calling a national emergency. So let's stop arguing about it since no one seems able to get my point anyway.

 

[OldLady]

Answer my question:
Why are tens of thousands of deaths due to gun homicides per year not a crisis, but this is?

1. Because the murder in which guns are used are not necessarily done in violation of law, so the government is legally off the hook.

2. The government is responsible for keeping illegal immigrants out, so it is at fault for ANY crimes they commit.

3. If the difference between points 1 and 2 are indecipherable to you, I cannot help your dysfunction.

So the government is calling a national emergency based on its own failure to act?

On it's inability to act.............One branch .......as the others REFUSE TO ACT..........they don't want to fix it........they like it broken......

So..........every LEGAL OPTION to build it is being used now..........having the military build it would make it Much cheaper to build. Labor is a major portion of the costs..........The military are already being paid.........Save the taxpayers money.

It will get stopped by the courts or the Congress faster than Trump can say national emergency. It is not going to happen; even he says so. Everyone simmer down.
It's not a crisis. It is a problem that needs to be solved and everyone angry with the Congress for not fixing it, I agree with. I chewed out my senator yesterday. I eagerly await his reply. (lol)

 

[JimBowie1958]

It was a much more serious problem in 2006, but Bush did not call a national emergency. He dealt with it, somehow or other.

He dealt with it by look the other way. He was mandated to build a 700 mile double line fence and he refused and deflected instead.

George W Bush is a tool of the Oligarchs, being an Oligarch himself.

There were twice as many illegals getting over in 2006 as are coming now.
And I heard on the radio this morning that the Pres says he is NOT planning on calling a national emergency. So let's stop arguing about it since no one seems able to get my point anyway.

Well whether has decided to not declare a national emergency or not does not change the fact that he still has that authority by law, and can always change his mind and do it anyway. I think Trump is using this legality to manipulate our expectations of what is to be done and undermining the Democratic leaders view of their own position. This is a standard negotiating tactic in large contract bidding competition.

I could tell you some stories about that, lol.

The fact is, Trump does not need funding from Congress at all nor does he need to declare a national emergency. Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.

So I am not sure if Trump is doing this for reasons other than he likes the optics and thinks it will have an impact on the 2020 race, and/or he wants to get a win over the Democrats and break down their reflexive opposition to everything he is trying to do.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Answer my question:
Why are tens of thousands of deaths due to gun homicides per year not a crisis, but this is?

1. Because the murder in which guns are used are not necessarily done in violation of law, so the government is legally off the hook.

2. The government is responsible for keeping illegal immigrants out, so it is at fault for ANY crimes they commit.

3. If the difference between points 1 and 2 are indecipherable to you, I cannot help your dysfunction.

So the government is calling a national emergency based on its own failure to act?

On it's inability to act.............One branch .......as the others REFUSE TO ACT..........they don't want to fix it........they like it broken......

So..........every LEGAL OPTION to build it is being used now..........having the military build it would make it Much cheaper to build. Labor is a major portion of the costs..........The military are already being paid.........Save the taxpayers money.

It will get stopped by the courts or the Congress faster than Trump can say national emergency. It is not going to happen; even he says so. Everyone simmer down.
It's not a crisis. It is a problem that needs to be solved and everyone angry with the Congress for not fixing it, I agree with. I chewed out my senator yesterday. I eagerly await his reply. (lol)

Sure, Open Borders Dimocrats can judge shop to an Obama appointee that will sign off, but that is only good till it reaches the SCOTUS and Trump can expedite the process as part of his national emergency.

The idea that a national emergency declaration can be stopped by a partisan judge is a horrible thing to have in case law.

 

[eagle1462010]

Answer my question:
Why are tens of thousands of deaths due to gun homicides per year not a crisis, but this is?

1. Because the murder in which guns are used are not necessarily done in violation of law, so the government is legally off the hook.

2. The government is responsible for keeping illegal immigrants out, so it is at fault for ANY crimes they commit.

3. If the difference between points 1 and 2 are indecipherable to you, I cannot help your dysfunction.

So the government is calling a national emergency based on its own failure to act?

On it's inability to act.............One branch .......as the others REFUSE TO ACT..........they don't want to fix it........they like it broken......

So..........every LEGAL OPTION to build it is being used now..........having the military build it would make it Much cheaper to build. Labor is a major portion of the costs..........The military are already being paid.........Save the taxpayers money.

It will get stopped by the courts or the Congress faster than Trump can say national emergency. It is not going to happen; even he says so. Everyone simmer down.
It's not a crisis. It is a problem that needs to be solved and everyone angry with the Congress for not fixing it, I agree with. I chewed out my senator yesterday. I eagerly await his reply. (lol)

That's why we have a Supreme Court. To settle it there. It's high time that this is settled.........Our military is there to protect this nation at home and abroad and it's long passed the time that this should be challenged. The U.S. military builds for other Nations all over the world.........but are denied to do the same here via the courts.

A border of a country is a line of defense of this Nation..........I think that this SHOULD BE CHALLENGED........And not only under a CRISIS........Most countries of the world use their military to do this already.............why the hell shouldn't the military be allowed to protect our border..........

I'll tell you why..........Because if the military could be used.........The Damned Border crossing Problem WOULD END......Because the military would secure the dang border tighter than Pelosis..............terms of service prevents me from finishing that statement.

 

[eagle1462010]

Turkey builds 700 kilometer long wall on Syrian border - Turkey News

They did 600 miles cheaply..........and used their military to do it. and did it in a matter of years.........the Wall on the border of Iran will be done in about a year....and in Iraq not far behind.......900 miles for much cheaper than here.

Why is it cheaper.........because the use the military to build it............and don't have a group of lunatics challenging everything they do there.\

Same in Israel and other countries that have done so...............without the OPPOSITION TO IT..........it could be done for a much lower price.......but too many want Open Borders here.

 

[OldLady]

It was a much more serious problem in 2006, but Bush did not call a national emergency. He dealt with it, somehow or other.

He dealt with it by look the other way. He was mandated to build a 700 mile double line fence and he refused and deflected instead.

George W Bush is a tool of the Oligarchs, being an Oligarch himself.

There were twice as many illegals getting over in 2006 as are coming now.
And I heard on the radio this morning that the Pres says he is NOT planning on calling a national emergency. So let's stop arguing about it since no one seems able to get my point anyway.

Well whether has decided to not declare a national emergency or not does not change the fact that he still has that authority by law, and can always change his mind and do it anyway. I think Trump is using this legality to manipulate our expectations of what is to be done and undermining the Democratic leaders view of their own position. This is a standard negotiating tactic in large contract bidding competition.

I could tell you some stories about that, lol.

The fact is, Trump does not need funding from Congress at all nor does he need to declare a national emergency. Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.

So I am not sure if Trump is doing this for reasons other than he likes the optics and thinks it will have an impact on the 2020 race, and/or he wants to get a win over the Democrats and break down their reflexive opposition to everything he is trying to do.

Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.
So it has been legally written into our Constitution that the President can override the Congress and spend however much of the country's money as he likes without anyone's permission?
Can I see an example of what you are talking about?

 

[bodecea]

Thoughts & Prayers.

 

[OldLady]

Answer my question:
Why are tens of thousands of deaths due to gun homicides per year not a crisis, but this is?

1. Because the murder in which guns are used are not necessarily done in violation of law, so the government is legally off the hook.

2. The government is responsible for keeping illegal immigrants out, so it is at fault for ANY crimes they commit.

3. If the difference between points 1 and 2 are indecipherable to you, I cannot help your dysfunction.

So the government is calling a national emergency based on its own failure to act?

On it's inability to act.............One branch .......as the others REFUSE TO ACT..........they don't want to fix it........they like it broken......

So..........every LEGAL OPTION to build it is being used now..........having the military build it would make it Much cheaper to build. Labor is a major portion of the costs..........The military are already being paid.........Save the taxpayers money.

It will get stopped by the courts or the Congress faster than Trump can say national emergency. It is not going to happen; even he says so. Everyone simmer down.
It's not a crisis. It is a problem that needs to be solved and everyone angry with the Congress for not fixing it, I agree with. I chewed out my senator yesterday. I eagerly await his reply. (lol)

That's why we have a Supreme Court. To settle it there. It's high time that this is settled.........Our military is there to protect this nation at home and abroad and it's long passed the time that this should be challenged. The U.S. military builds for other Nations all over the world.........but are denied to do the same here via the courts.

A border of a country is a line of defense of this Nation..........I think that this SHOULD BE CHALLENGED........And not only under a CRISIS........Most countries of the world use their military to do this already.............why the hell shouldn't the military be allowed to protect our border..........

I'll tell you why..........Because if the military could be used.........The Damned Border crossing Problem WOULD END......Because the military would secure the dang border tighter than Pelosis..............terms of service prevents me from finishing that statement.

The issue is NOT whether the military would do a good job of building the wall, and no one said they can't build stuff for us. They built the levee systems in New Orleans, didn't they? I'm sure they build lots of stuff for us. That is not the problem.
The PROBLEM is the President overriding our government's internal checks and balances. The Congress has the power of the purse for a reason. The President can't override a check like this. He most likely knows it, though he isn't afraid of using it as a threat. Do not take him seriously, though. You will be disappointed if you do.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It was a much more serious problem in 2006, but Bush did not call a national emergency. He dealt with it, somehow or other.
There were twice as many illegals getting over in 2006 as are coming now.

And I heard on the radio this morning that the Pres says he is NOT planning on calling a national emergency. So let's stop arguing about it since no one seems able to get my point anyway

I thought Bush was an idiot?!

His presidency is NOT how most of us judge a successful president.

The Wall IS the only legitimate answer.

Dems have proven to be the OPEN BORDERS PARTY.

God help us if a Dem ever gets back in the White House!

 

[danielpalos]

Suppose we have a bread maker and this manufacturer had employees poisoning their products with random binary poisons that only kill a person if they also use random commercial products, like certain brands of tooth paste, deoderant, or foods, and so forth.

The public is demanding they stop selling their product, but the company wont, saying it will drive them out of business, and each loaf has a buyer beware label on it speaking of the risk.

Their sales drop through the floor, so they instead start selling their bread to other stores as a store brand prodcut.

Public is again outraged and people start demanding that Congress pass a law, on top of all the others that would make this product illegal.

Congress refuses to act saying that buyers need to be careful of what they buy and it was not a crisis anyway. One Congressman is asked how many people have to die from this bread before it becomes a crisis?

He says well 9-11 was a crisis and that had 3,000 people die.

Is 3,000 the threshold for how many deaths it takes to have a crisis?

Nearly 40,000 People Died From Guns in U.S. Last Year, Highest in 50 Years

We should muster the militia until our crisis goes back to a dull roar.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.
So it has been legally written into our Constitution that the President can override the Congress and spend however much of the country's money as he likes without anyone's permission?
Can I see an example of what you are talking about?

Where do you think Obama got the hundreds of billions he gave Iran?

And yes, the mechanism given by the Constitution to Congress is with the annual budget.

It does not prevent the POTUS from selling government owned land, selling debt, selling contracts or opening up a lemonade stand.

 

[eagle1462010]

It was a much more serious problem in 2006, but Bush did not call a national emergency. He dealt with it, somehow or other.

He dealt with it by look the other way. He was mandated to build a 700 mile double line fence and he refused and deflected instead.

George W Bush is a tool of the Oligarchs, being an Oligarch himself.

There were twice as many illegals getting over in 2006 as are coming now.
And I heard on the radio this morning that the Pres says he is NOT planning on calling a national emergency. So let's stop arguing about it since no one seems able to get my point anyway.

Well whether has decided to not declare a national emergency or not does not change the fact that he still has that authority by law, and can always change his mind and do it anyway. I think Trump is using this legality to manipulate our expectations of what is to be done and undermining the Democratic leaders view of their own position. This is a standard negotiating tactic in large contract bidding competition.

I could tell you some stories about that, lol.

The fact is, Trump does not need funding from Congress at all nor does he need to declare a national emergency. Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.

So I am not sure if Trump is doing this for reasons other than he likes the optics and thinks it will have an impact on the 2020 race, and/or he wants to get a win over the Democrats and break down their reflexive opposition to everything he is trying to do.

Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.
So it has been legally written into our Constitution that the President can override the Congress and spend however much of the country's money as he likes without anyone's permission?
Can I see an example of what you are talking about?

Judiciary Chair Claims Internal Docs Reveal Obama DOJ 'Slush Fund'
Obama Justice Department’s liberal slush fund exposed
Justice’s Liberal Slush Fund

They used these funds from fees for legal immigration and funded groups for DACA and DREAMERS WITHOUT CONSENT OF CONGRESS.

Should WE DO AS OBAMA DID??????????????????????????????????????????????? And give them a taste of their own damned medicine.

 

[OldLady]

Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.
So it has been legally written into our Constitution that the President can override the Congress and spend however much of the country's money as he likes without anyone's permission?
Can I see an example of what you are talking about?

Where do you think Obama got the hundreds of billions he gave Iran?

And yes, the mechanism given by the Constitution to Congress is with the annual budget.

It does not prevent the POTUS from selling government owned land, selling debt, selling contracts or opening up a lemonade stand.

Guess he'd better get scootin' then. He's got some land to sell.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The PROBLEM is the President overriding our government's internal checks and balances. The Congress has the power of the purse for a reason. The President can't override a check like this. He most likely knows it, though he isn't afraid of using it as a threat. Do not take him seriously, though. You will be disappointed if you do.

It is interesting that when a Democratic President ignores Congressional funding powers, like Obamas sending hundreds of buillionsto Iran, or ignoring Congressionally passed code of law, like Obama choosing to not enforce restrictions on worker visas and just handing out as many as he wants, you Dems have no problem and defend the POTUS.

But if it is a Republican President USING THE POWERS HE IS CLEARLY GIVEN UNDER US CODE OF LAWS, you cannot tolerate it.

This is just hilarious for many reasons, the cheif of which is you are completely blind to your own hypocrisy.

 

[WillowTree]

Why are tens of thousands of deaths due to gun homicides per year not a crisis, but this is?

Because it is a completely different issue and you are indulging in a tu quoque fallacy in order to distract away from the notion that we have the ******* right to be able to decide who comes into our country and who doesn't.

Speaking Latin and cussing in the same sentence. Lordy.
My point is actually that it can't fairly be called a "crisis" when there are people in this country willfully killing each other every day with firearms. Every. Single. Day. And that is not considered a crisis. I am not seeing the big diff over who does the killing. If that is the criteria, American deaths, then we have another much larger group of perpetrators constituting a "crisis."
My point is, maybe we shouldn't be calling the border problem a crisis, particularly not over illegals murdering Americans.

So until every American stops killing you are fine with illegals sneaking in and killing Americans! Got it! What a dumbass!

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.
I'm done wasting my breath on you.

Thank you! I came to the same conclusion. It’s just useless talking to an American moron who every time the illegals murdering Americans is brought up counters with well Americans kill Americans what about that? Dumbass!

 

[JimBowie1958]

Guess he'd better get scootin' then. He's got some land to sell.

I am fairly sure his administration is already working on this for months now.

 

[eagle1462010]

1. Because the murder in which guns are used are not necessarily done in violation of law, so the government is legally off the hook.

2. The government is responsible for keeping illegal immigrants out, so it is at fault for ANY crimes they commit.

3. If the difference between points 1 and 2 are indecipherable to you, I cannot help your dysfunction.

So the government is calling a national emergency based on its own failure to act?

On it's inability to act.............One branch .......as the others REFUSE TO ACT..........they don't want to fix it........they like it broken......

So..........every LEGAL OPTION to build it is being used now..........having the military build it would make it Much cheaper to build. Labor is a major portion of the costs..........The military are already being paid.........Save the taxpayers money.

It will get stopped by the courts or the Congress faster than Trump can say national emergency. It is not going to happen; even he says so. Everyone simmer down.
It's not a crisis. It is a problem that needs to be solved and everyone angry with the Congress for not fixing it, I agree with. I chewed out my senator yesterday. I eagerly await his reply. (lol)

That's why we have a Supreme Court. To settle it there. It's high time that this is settled.........Our military is there to protect this nation at home and abroad and it's long passed the time that this should be challenged. The U.S. military builds for other Nations all over the world.........but are denied to do the same here via the courts.

A border of a country is a line of defense of this Nation..........I think that this SHOULD BE CHALLENGED........And not only under a CRISIS........Most countries of the world use their military to do this already.............why the hell shouldn't the military be allowed to protect our border..........

I'll tell you why..........Because if the military could be used.........The Damned Border crossing Problem WOULD END......Because the military would secure the dang border tighter than Pelosis..............terms of service prevents me from finishing that statement.

The issue is NOT whether the military would do a good job of building the wall, and no one said they can't build stuff for us. They built the levee systems in New Orleans, didn't they? I'm sure they build lots of stuff for us. That is not the problem.
The PROBLEM is the President overriding our government's internal checks and balances. The Congress has the power of the purse for a reason. The President can't override a check like this. He most likely knows it, though he isn't afraid of using it as a threat. Do not take him seriously, though. You will be disappointed if you do.

We DISAGREE.............the Border is part of National Security and that is a part of the Military's job..........to protect our borders........You are splitting hairs............

You want the Border Secure..........I GUARANTEE YOU..........that if the U.S. military was ordered to SEAL OFF THE BORDER........from drugs and illegals .......IT WOULD GET DONE.......It would END IT............the only way across would be POE's at that point..........

 

[candycorn]

Its supposedly a national emergency this year.

It wasn't a national emergency last year.

What changed in the last 2-3 months?

Nothing has changed for decades........and it has been a crisis for decades...........the new loop holes exposed and encouraged by the Dems in the past have caused unaccompanied children numbers coming to America to explode...............because after 20 days they are sent to family or relatives in the country and they are in..............Now they are flooding the border with families as the courts have done the same to ICE.........You can't separate them at the border.......with the back log of the courts at about 2 years..........the Immigration courts are overwelmed.......and the system is now forced to release the families from JUDICIAL ACTIVISM..............primarily the 9th Circuit Court of Liberal Hacks...................and Politicians who OPENLY SPIT ON THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

The immigrants are flooding the border now through LEGAL ENTRY PORTS OF ENTRY..........trying to get in via Catch and Release again. Another Caravan of the flood approaches now with about 15000 in it...............And Congress and the Senate refuse to do a damned thing about the loop holes.

It hasn’t been a crisis when apprehensions were well over a million per year; so it isn’t now