How is the sun not responsible for warming the ocean?

The ocean has been steadily warming. What's responsible for this warming?

  • Sun

    Votes: 4 66.7%
  • Atmosphere

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Overwhelmingly the sun with a minor contribution by the atmosphere

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Overwhelmingly the atmosphere with a minor contribution by the atmosphere

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6
So according to your "calculations" the ocean contains way more than 1000 times the heat of the atmosphere. #winning

I'm ignoring your idiotic thinking that the ocean doesn't store solar energy. SMH.

Maybe you should read the OP again ... the question is what is WARMING the oceans ... stupid ... not why they aren't frozen solid ... if the Sun is constant, and the oceans are constant ... then it's only the atmosphere that's causing any change in temperature ...

Can't even read your own writing ... that's pathetic ... worse than your algebra ...

What temperature should the oceans be with 1,360 W/m^2 irradiation? ...
 
Maybe you should read the OP again ... the question is what is WARMING the oceans ... stupid ... not why they aren't frozen solid ... if the Sun is constant, and the oceans are constant ... then it's only the atmosphere that's causing any change in temperature ...

Can't even read your own writing ... that's pathetic ... worse than your algebra ...

What temperature should the oceans be with 1,360 W/m^2 irradiation? ...
I think I'm going to go back to fuck off.
 
What temperature should the oceans be with 1,360 W/m^2 irradiation? ...
You really are a moron. The sun is remarkably constant, especially when compared to similar stars. The ocean temperature is determined by how the ocean distributes heat and affects planetary climate. We know this because we have proxies for the mean ocean temperature in glacial and interglacial periods and it isn't the same. The sun shines just the same in glacial and interglacial periods yet MOT changes.

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the question is what is WARMING the oceans
The sun always is warming the ocean.

Maybe a better question is what determines the temperature of the oceans. And that would be how the ocean distributes heat and how that distribution of heat affects planetary climate because if heat distribution to the Arctic is disrupted glaciation occurs and that affects the climate of the entire planet such that the temperature of the ocean decreases even as the sun is warming the ocean through solar radiation.
 
Would it be great if Apu could explain how orbital cycles affect the planet's climate like that?
 
You really are a moron. The sun is remarkably constant, especially when compared to similar stars. The ocean temperature is determined by how the ocean distributes heat and affects planetary climate. We know this because we have proxies for the mean ocean temperature in glacial and interglacial periods and it isn't the same. The sun shines just the same in glacial and interglacial periods yet MOT changes.

View attachment 985722
What changes to "how the ocean distributes heat" have taken place since 1850?
 
What changes to "how the ocean distributes heat" have taken place since 1850?
The planet warms when the Atlantic is circulating heat to the Arctic like it is today. Remove that heat from the Arctic and glaciation begins which then causes the planet to cool.

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The planet warms when the Atlantic is circulating heat to the Arctic like it is today. Remove that heat from the Arctic and glaciation begins which then causes the planet to cool.

View attachment 985796
You failed to answer the question. What changes have taken place coinciding with the Industrial Revolution that has caused the global warming we've all observed? You keep mixing up carts and horses.
 

How is the sun not responsible for warming the ocean?​


Its the Sun. It has always been the Sun. The Sun heats the ocean through direct radiation. The Sun heats the atmosphere through radiative absorption which then helps heat the ocean a little more and by trapping some of the heat in the water.

The Sun is the source of all heat on Earth save for that tiny bit radiating outward from the core, from radioactive rock and magma events like volcanoes.
 
You failed to answer the question. What changes have taken place coinciding with the Industrial Revolution that has caused the global warming we've all observed? You keep mixing up carts and horses.
Heat was still being circulated from the Atlantic to the Arctic so the Arctic continues to warm and the planet continues to get warmer.
 
Heat was still being circulated from the Atlantic to the Arctic so the Arctic continues to warm and the planet continues to get warmer.
What was the CHANGE?
 
What was the CHANGE?
Same as the other natural climate fluctuations of this interglacial cycle. The geologic record is littered with them.

1722208955820.webp


δ18O from the GISP2 ice core for the past 10,000 years. Red areas represent temperatures warmer than those in 1987 (top of the core); blue areas were cooler. Almost all of the past 10,000 years were warmer than the past 1500 years. (Plotted from data in Grootes and Stuiver, 1997)


1722209177161.webp


1700094347609.png


https://www.ssb.no/en/natur-og-milj...594b9225f9d7dc458b0b70a646baec3339/DP1007.pdf
 
Same as the other natural climate fluctuations of this interglacial cycle. The geologic record is littered with them.

View attachment 985972

δ18O from the GISP2 ice core for the past 10,000 years. Red areas represent temperatures warmer than those in 1987 (top of the core); blue areas were cooler. Almost all of the past 10,000 years were warmer than the past 1500 years. (Plotted from data in Grootes and Stuiver, 1997)


View attachment 985973


1700094347609.png


https://www.ssb.no/en/natur-og-milj...594b9225f9d7dc458b0b70a646baec3339/DP1007.pdf
You've shown us absolutely nothing coinciding with the warming that's taken place since the Industrial Revolution. Nothing. Do you not understand what is needed here? Or what it means when you cannot find it?
 
You've shown us absolutely nothing coinciding with the warming that's taken place since the Industrial Revolution. Nothing. Do you not understand what is needed here? Or what it means when you cannot find it?
The warming trend began 250 years before the industrial revolution, dummy.

The planet will continue to warm until heat being circulated from the Atlantic to the Arctic gets disrupted by density changes due to salinity changes. There's nothing special or different with the current warming trend. What you can expect will be warming and cooling trends occurring just like this...

1722220007811.webp


until the planet heats up enough to trigger a change in the thermohaline circulation just like this...

1722220063047.webp
 
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How heat moves​

The ocean is the largest solar energy collector on Earth. Not only does water cover more than 70 percent of our planet’s surface, it can also absorb large amounts of heat without a large increase in temperature. This tremendous ability to store and release heat over long periods of time gives the ocean a central role in stabilizing Earth’s climate system. The main source of ocean heat is sunlight. Additionally, clouds, water vapor, and greenhouse gases emit heat that they have absorbed, and some of that heat energy enters the ocean. Waves, tides, and currents constantly mix the ocean, moving heat from warmer to cooler latitudes and to deeper levels.

Heat absorbed by the ocean is moved from one place to another, but it doesn’t disappear. The heat energy eventually re-enters the rest of the Earth system by melting ice shelves, evaporating water, or directly reheating the atmosphere. Thus, heat energy in the ocean can warm the planet for decades after it was absorbed. If the ocean absorbs more heat than it releases over a given time span, its heat content increases. Knowing how much heat energy the ocean absorbs and releases is essential for understanding and modeling global climate.


The atmosphere by contrast is a poor conductor of heat. It doesn't store heat like the ocean does. At night the heat is releasing to outer space.

There is 1000 times more heat stored in the ocean than the atmosphere.
View attachment 984851

The ocean has been steadily warming. So what's responsible for this warming? The sun. Or the atmosphere.

View attachment 984849
The Sun cannot slice through the impenetrable layer of CO2, now that it’s crossed the Crisis Tipping Point of 400PPM.

The last time CO2 was this high it caused the Chicxulub Asteroid to kill the dinosaurs. Deniers never learn
 
The sun always is warming the ocean.

Maybe a better question is what determines the temperature of the oceans. And that would be how the ocean distributes heat and how that distribution of heat affects planetary climate because if heat distribution to the Arctic is disrupted glaciation occurs and that affects the climate of the entire planet such that the temperature of the ocean decreases even as the sun is warming the ocean through solar radiation.

It sure as hell ain't the Sun ... liquid water isn't transparent, almost all solar energy is absorbed at the surface and re-radiated back out into space ... if fact ... we model the planet as a blackbody radiator ... ALL radiative energy absorbed is re-emitted back out ... every erg ... the energy in the ocean is primordial, not from the Sun ...

So the answer to my question is -18ºC ... yes, the oceans should be frozen over right now if it was just the Sun ... 1,360 W/m^2 ... but for some strange reason the oceans are closer to +13ºC ... weird isn't it ... gee, maybe we have something called the atmosphere that surrounds the oceans, you know, insulating them ...

... like a greenhouse maybe? ... just spit-balling here ... if we break the glass roof, temps crash; so just maybe the glass roof is the causitive agent ... rather than the effect ... maybe ...
 
SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, with the actual qualifications to know one way or the other, would have long ago alerted us to this fraud.


Over and over that has happened, beginning with the 2007 British Court....



  • The film claims that melting snows on Mount Kilimanjaro evidence global warming. The Government's expert was forced to concede that this is not correct.
======================================================================================
  • The film suggests that evidence from ice cores proves that rising CO2 causes temperature increases over 650,000 years. The Court found that the film was misleading: over that period the rises in CO2 lagged behind the temperature rises by 800-2000 years.
=====================================================================================

  • The film uses emotive images of Hurricane Katrina and suggests that this has been caused by global warming. The Government's expert had to accept that it was "not possible" to attribute one-off events to global warming.
  • The film shows the drying up of Lake Chad and claims that this was caused by global warming. The Government's expert had to accept that this was not the case.
  • The film claims that a study showed that polar bears had drowned due to disappearing arctic ice. It turned out that Mr Gore had misread the study: in fact four polar bears drowned and this was because of a particularly violent storm.
  • The film threatens that global warming could stop the Gulf Stream throwing Europe into an ice age: the Claimant's evidence was that this was a scientific impossibility.
  • The film blames global warming for species losses including coral reef bleaching. The Government could not find any evidence to support this claim.
  • The film suggests that the Greenland ice covering could melt causing sea levels to rise dangerously. The evidence is that Greenland will not melt for millennia.
=============================================================================
  • The film suggests that the Antarctic ice covering is melting, the evidence was that it is in fact increasing.
===================================================================================
  • The film suggests that sea levels could rise by 7m causing the displacement of millions of people. In fact the evidence is that sea levels are expected to rise by about 40cm over the next hundred years and that there is no such threat of massive migration.
  • The film claims that rising sea levels has caused the evacuation of certain Pacific islands to New Zealand. The Government are unable to substantiate this and the Court observed that this appears to be a false claim.




Why do you never address the actual temperature record?


You friggin liar. Congrats on your side getting to NBC, because the ACTUAL ATMOSPHERIC TEMP RECORD documented by NBC which was FUDGED in 2005 is now CENSORED....


 
The warming trend began 250 years before the industrial revolution, dummy.

The planet will continue to warm until heat being circulated from the Atlantic to the Arctic gets disrupted by density changes due to salinity changes. There's nothing special or different with the current warming trend. What you can expect will be warming and cooling trends occurring just like this...

View attachment 986099

until the planet heats up enough to trigger a change in the thermohaline circulation just like this...

View attachment 986100





Greenland's southern tip was not frozen until the Greenland ice age penetrated the mountain range at the top of the tip, chasing the Vikings off Greenland in the 1400s.


Greenland's ice is vastly larger now than in the 1400s and before, because Greenland was completely GREEN 2 million years ago...

 
It sure as hell ain't the Sun ... liquid water isn't transparent, almost all solar energy is absorbed at the surface and re-radiated back out into space ... if fact ... we model the planet as a blackbody radiator ... ALL radiative energy absorbed is re-emitted back out ... every erg ... the energy in the ocean is primordial, not from the Sun ...

So the answer to my question is -18ºC ... yes, the oceans should be frozen over right now if it was just the Sun ... 1,360 W/m^2 ... but for some strange reason the oceans are closer to +13ºC ... weird isn't it ... gee, maybe we have something called the atmosphere that surrounds the oceans, you know, insulating them ...

... like a greenhouse maybe? ... just spit-balling here ... if we break the glass roof, temps crash; so just maybe the glass roof is the causitive agent ... rather than the effect ... maybe ...
100% the sun.
 
It sure as hell ain't the Sun ... liquid water isn't transparent, almost all solar energy is absorbed at the surface and re-radiated back out into space
I agree with the first, not the second. In most of the world's oceans, surface mixing is profound and nonstop. A large portion of the energy absorbed from direct solar radiation is swept below by physical convection. That actually lost from the surface will do so in the IR and will face that same obstacle course of CO2 and other GHG molecules waiting to waylay it's journey to the great beyond.
... if fact ... we model the planet as a blackbody radiator ... ALL radiative energy absorbed is re-emitted back out ... every erg ...
Modeled as a "perfect" blackbody radiator. You're just reciting the definition.
the energy in the ocean is primordial, not from the Sun ...
That primordial energy is long gone. There is nothing there now but the net of the ongoing battle for equilibrium
So the answer to my question is -18ºC ... yes, the oceans should be frozen over right now if it was just the Sun ... 1,360 W/m^2 ... but for some strange reason the oceans are closer to +13ºC ... weird isn't it ... gee, maybe we have something called the atmosphere that surrounds the oceans, you know, insulating them ...

... like a greenhouse maybe? ... just spit-balling here ... if we break the glass roof, temps crash; so just maybe the glass roof is the causitive agent ... rather than the effect ... maybe ...
What do you mean? The effect of what?
 
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