How has your marriage been hurt?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

because that would have been the Constitutionally sound way of handling it. Full faith and credit is a well established Constitutional concept.

Just because hateful right wing bigots have an unwarranted fear of gay Americans doesn't justify denying same sex couples access to marriage law.

 

[g5000]

Neither you nor I have evidence that he did which is the relevant point. I don't know about you but I only accept things as true that have some basis in objective reality.

You want proof. I understand. I was just like you once. Actually, I was a lot worse.

A LOT worse.

I was subjected to every possible abuse as a child. I won't go into details.

Some of the people who were inflicting that abuse on me were the same people bringing me to church every Sunday.

So you can imagine how I felt toward this God of theirs.

When I read the bible, or heard the bible read to me in church, the impression I got was God was a raging asshole. He was constantly smiting people, turning them into salt, nuking their cities, slaying whole civilizations. I saw nothing but contradictions and ridiculous fables.

For some reason I never heard any of the parts about God's forgiveness and mercy. Those parts never penetrated my hardened heart.

I spent decades going after religious people. While I was on active duty, I interrogated every holy man I could. I was aggressive as hell.

If I encountered a fellow servicemember who was religious, I would sneer and be mean to them. I held them in contempt and considered them stupid. I would throw the same questions at them as you did just now.

I still cringe sometimes at my treatment toward one particular man who was a born-again evangelical. He was one of the kindest people I ever knew who truly walked the walk of his biblical principles. He once invited me to his church, and I showed up drunk and made an ass of myself and completely disrespected him and the congregation.

And when my older brother, who had also been abused, died as one of the earliest victims of AIDS from abusing IV drugs, this incredible man reached out to me and I viciously spurned him.

I have spent a great deal of energy trying to find this man over the past few years to make a reconciliation with him. But he appears to be either as adverse to social media as I am, or he's dead.

There's a reason I'm telling you all this. Please bear with me.

In July 1993, something beyond explanation happened to me. Something so profound I did not tell anyone about it for half a decade, with the exception of my girlfriend at the time who saw it in me the moment she laid eyes on me when I arrived home. When she opened the front door, she took one look at me and said factually, "You found God."

I had what can best be described as a white light experience. There are no words in our language which fully capture it.

I was completely enveloped by a white light while driving my vehicle. It lasted for some time, but I don't know exactly how long.

Have you ever been in total darkness? Not a single photon visible? Well, this was the exact opposite of that. I could see nothing but whiteness. I was literally blinded by the light, as the song goes.

And in that whiteness, I felt the unmistakable presence of God.

I so wish I could define and explain what that presence was like.

And I experienced true awe. When people say God is awesome...yeah.

Then it was gone and I found myself back behind the wheel of a moving vehicle on a country highway in Mississippi!

Curried, the next time I picked up a bible and read it, it was an entirely different book. It suddenly made perfect sense and it was like breathing pure oxygen. I started laughing uncontrollably that first time, the difference was that amazing.

And that's the thing about faith. It's personal. It's a one-on-one relationship and you either believe or you don't.

God can't be proven with an oscilloscope. That's just the way it is.

I wish I could lay hands on people and make them believe. But that's just my ego and not God's will.

I can only tell you my story.

 

[Dragonlady]

Since it’s a religious ceremony it’s what God says it is. Society’s opinion doesn’t mean anything.

It’s not a religious ceremony that makes it a “marriage”. It is a marriage license issued by the STATE. You’re not “married” unless the state issues a license, and an individual licensed by the state performs the ceremony and signs the marriage certificate.

You can get married by having a non-religious officiant, licensed by the state, perform your marriage ceremony. You do not need a religious person to make your marriage valid or legal.

A marriage performed by a non-religious, licensed officiant, is valid and legal, while a marriage performed by a religious, but nonlicensed officiant is neither valid nor legal

 

[Curried Goats]

What bible lesson isn’t based on reality?

What don't you start by telling me which ones you imagine are. The creation of everything in six days? The garden of eden? The talking snake? The magic apple? The slaughter of Egyptian first born children? The parting of the sea? The virgin birth? The walking on water? The zombie resurrection? Which of these?

 

[g5000]

So? Has nothing to do with the marriage at all. Just because the government gets involved doesn’t change what it is.

Gay marriage has nothing to do with religion. It does not affect the marriages held in churches. You are free to ban gays in your church.

But when you are holding a marriage ceremony in your church for someone's second, third, fourth, or fifth marriage, well...Jesus said nothing about gays, but he sure had lot to say about hypocrites.

Religion is a a cover.

The real motive behind the hate is the haters don't want gays receiving the same government cash and prices as they do.

They want gays dead or in prison. Or at the very least stuffed in a closet.

 

[Curried Goats]

You want proof. I understand. I was just like you once. Actually, I was a lot worse.

A LOT worse.

I was subjected to every possible abuse as a child. I won't go into details.

Some of the people who were inflicting that abuse on me were the same people bringing me to church every Sunday.

So you can imagine how I felt toward this God of theirs.

When I read the bible, or heard the bible read to me in church, the impression I got was God was a raging asshole. He was constantly smiting people, turning them into salt, nuking their cities, slaying whole civilizations. I saw nothing but contradictions and ridiculous fables.

For some reason I never heard any of the parts about God's forgiveness and mercy. Those parts never penetrated my hardened heart.

I spent decades going after religious people. While I was on active duty, I interrogated every holy man I could. I was aggressive as hell.

If I encountered a fellow servicemember who was religious, I would sneer and be mean to them. I held them in contempt and considered them stupid. I would throw the same questions at them as you did just now.

I still cringe sometimes at my treatment toward one particular man who was a born-again evangelical. He was one of the kindest people I ever knew who truly walked the walk of his biblical principles. He once invited me to his church, and I showed up drunk and made an ass of myself and completely disrespected him and the congregation.

And when my older brother, who had also been abused, died as one of the earliest victims of AIDS from abusing IV drugs, this incredible man reached out to me and I viciously spurned him.

I have spent a great deal of energy trying to find this man over the past few years to make a reconciliation with him. But he appears to be either as adverse to social media as I am, or he's dead.

There's a reason I'm telling you all this. Please bear with me.

In July 1993, something beyond explanation happened to me. Something so profound I did not tell anyone about it for half a decade, with the exception of my girlfriend at the time who saw it in me the moment she laid eyes on me when I arrived home. When she opened the front door, she took one look at me and said factually, "You found God."

I had what can best be described as a white light experience. There are no words in our language which fully capture it.

I was completely enveloped by a white light while driving my vehicle. It lasted for some time, but I don't know exactly how long.

Have you ever been in total darkness? Not a single photon visible? Well, this was the exact opposite of that. I could see nothing but whiteness. I was literally blinded by the light, as the song goes.

And in that whiteness, I felt the unmistakable presence of God.

I so wish I could define and explain what that presence was like.

And I experienced true awe. When people say God is awesome...yeah.

Then it was gone and I found myself back behind the wheel of a moving vehicle on a country highway in Mississippi!

Curried, the next time I picked up a bible and read it, it was an entirely different book. It suddenly made perfect sense and it was like breathing pure oxygen. I started laughing uncontrollably that first time, the difference was that amazing.

And that's the thing about faith. It's personal. It's a one-on-one relationship and you either believe or you don't.

God can't be proven with an oscilloscope. That's just the way it is.

I wish I could lay hands on people and make them believe. But that's just my ego and not God's will.

I can only tell you my story.

What you just described to me sounds like a you having a mental break with reality. Understandable given what you say has happened to you.

 

[Curried Goats]

I have evidence I prayed about it, and it was revealed to be Gods word.

Is that what you think "evidence" is? Ok....

 

[g5000]

What you just described to me sounds like a you having a mental break with reality. Understandable given what you say has happened to you.

Yes, I used to talk the same way. I fully expected this reaction.

That's fine. I certainly didn't expect you to shout, "Hallelujah!"

He who has ears, let him hear.

 

[Curried Goats]

Yes, I used to talk the same way. I fully expected this reaction.

That's fine. I certainly didn't expect you to shout, "Hallelujah!"

Who cares how you talk? The point is what you say and whether it has any basis in rational thought.

 

[martybegan]

Smells like separate but equal. A failed idea.

Again, it depends on what you think is equal. SSM is not the same as marriage as has been defined for millennia.

 

[Curried Goats]

Again, it depends on what you think is equal. SSM is not the same as marriage as has been defined for millennia.

Because arguments based on tradition are rational ones?

 

[Mac-7]

Speaks volumes about you that the only reason you can tolerate those not the same as you is because you are forced to.

You dont need volumes to confirm your anti MAGA intolerance

But are you into total thought control now which demands that everyone not only tolerate court decisions they disagree with but actually have to like it ?

I tolerate homosexuals but I dont have to like them

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Marriage is what ever society says it is, as it is a made up concept to begin with.

I understand that most Americans support gay marriage. Its just a public comittment. We should all have that right.

 

[martybegan]

Just because hateful right wing bigots have an unwarranted fear of gay Americans doesn't justify denying same sex couples access to marriage law.

So every single Christian who adheres to marriage being between one man and one woman is a hateful bigot?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You dont need volumes to confirm your anti MAGA intolerance

But are you into total thought control now which demands that everyone not only tolerate court decisions they disagree with but actually have to like it ?

I tolerate homosexuals but I dont have to like them

I dont think they have to pay any notice to rubbish like you.

 

[martybegan]

Because arguments based on tradition are rational ones?

You talking about rationality is retarded, like you.

 

[Mac-7]

Experts verify homosexuals are born that way

Correction: some “experts” say that the defective homosexual gene exists

Other experts disagree

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So every single Christian who adheres to marriage being between one man and one woman is a hateful bigot?

There is something wrong with them.

 

[martybegan]

Gay marriage has nothing to do with religion. It does not affect the marriages held in churches. You are free to ban gays in your church.

But when you are holding a marriage ceremony in your church for someone's second, third, fourth, or fifth marriage, well...Jesus said nothing about gays, but he sure had lot to say about hypocrites.

Religion is a a cover.

The real motive behind the hate is the haters don't want gays receiving the same government cash and prices as they do.

They want gays dead or in prison. Or at the very least stuffed in a closet.

Kind of like the Hamassholes who's dick you suck?

 

[martybegan]

There is something wrong with them.

No, there is something fascist about you.