How Do You See God?

[ding]

How can there be different perceptions of a god that revealed himself?

If the all powerful god told everyone who he was then everyone would have the same perception. But that didn't happen.

So what we have is nothing but a societal manifestation of a god not an actual one

The same way we still have crimes even though everyone knows there are laws against them. Because man has free will.

 

[ding]

There are no absolute morals.

Outcomes say otherwise. And so does your inability to abandon the concept of right and wrong.

 

[ding]

So what we have is nothing but a societal manifestation of a god not an actual one

No. What we have here are 7 billion plans unfolding all at once being interconnected and participating in a conflict and confusion process which ultimately leads to objective truth.

 

[Blues Man]

The same way we still have crimes even though everyone knows there are laws against them. Because man has free will.

Not the same thing.

If you see the same tree as i do we can agree on what kind of tree it is, how tall it is, how many branches it has etc because those can all be quantified.

If everyone saw the same god then there is no free will involved in the seeing there is only free will involved in the reaction.

My reaction would be that I would still not worship any god but if i saw the same god you did i would have to agree that he exists and if i heard the same words you did we would have to agree on what he said.

 

[Blues Man]

No. What we have here are 7 billion plans unfolding all at once being interconnected and participating in a conflict and confusion process which ultimately leads to objective truth.

You ignore the influence of society.

That influence is arguably one of the most powerful any human has to contend with.

 

[Blues Man]

Outcomes say otherwise. And so does your inability to abandon the concept of right and wrong.

My concepts of right and wrong are not the same as yours hence not absolute.

 

[ding]

Not the same thing.

If you see the same tree as i do we can agree on what kind of tree it is, how tall it is, how many branches it has etc because those can all be quantified.

If everyone saw the same god then there is no free will involved in the seeing there is only free will involved in the reaction.

My reaction would be that I would still not worship any god but if i saw the same god you did i would have to agree that he exists and if i heard the same words you did we would have to agree on what he said.

It is exactly the same thing. Free will means choice. Nothing more. You have a choice to do good or a choice to do bad. You have a choice to break a law or not to break a law. You have a choice to believe in God or not to believe in God. But what you don't have is a choice in saying you never heard you should believe in God. So you have made a conscious decision to not believe in God. I don't care what your reasons are. It does not matter. What matters is that since you made that choice you cannot say whether that path would change the way you act. You can claim it wouldn't until the cows come home but it doesn't mean anything because you have never experienced what I have. And it does change your behaviors.

 

[ding]

You ignore the influence of society.

That influence is arguably one of the most powerful any human has to contend with.

Not at all. Everything is connected. The universe is effectively one living organism. Everything unfolded logically. Everything is connected in some way to everything else.

 

[ding]

My concepts of right and wrong are not the same as yours hence not absolute.

Don't care. They don't have to be. The difference is subjectivity. The only thing that matter is that you have a sense of right and wrong. That's what determines that morals are absolute. Everyone has it. They just don't all agree on what it is. But they will argue that their belief is right. There's your proof. You can't abandon the concept of fair.

 

[Blues Man]

It is exactly the same thing. Free will means choice. Nothing more. You have a choice to do good or a choice to do bad. You have a choice to break a law or not to break a law. You have a choice to believe in God or not to believe in God. But what you don't have is a choice in saying you never heard you should believe in God. So you have made a conscious decision to not believe in God. I don't care what your reasons are. It does not matter. What matters is that since you made that choice you cannot say whether that path would change the way you act. You can claim it wouldn't until the cows come home but it doesn't mean anything because you have never experienced what I have. And it does change your behaviors.

If a god wants to reveal himself to you you have no choice in whether ir not you see it.,

 

[Blues Man]

Don't care. They don't have to be. The difference is subjectivity. The only thing that matter is that you have a sense of right and wrong. That's what determines that morals are absolute. Everyone has it. They just don't all agree on what it is. But they will argue that their belief is right. There's your proof. You can't abandon the concept of fair.

So now right and wrong are not absolute as you have been saying all along?

 

[ding]

If a god wants to reveal himself to you you have no choice in whether ir not you see it.,

I think you need to face the fact that you have chosen to never look. You aren't looking for God. You are looking for reasons to not look for God.

 

[ding]

So now right and wrong are not absolute as you have been saying all along?

No. That's not what I said. Subjectivity prevents some from seeing truth. So instead of arguing that point with you, I am telling you that the reason you can't get rid of your concept of fairness is because that's been hardwired into you by God. There is the proof you HAVEN'T been looking for. So now I expect you to dismiss it because it challenges your beliefs.

 

[Blues Man]

I think you need to face the fact that you have chosen to never look. You aren't looking for God. You are looking for reasons to not look for God.

I have looked
I spent years of my life as a teenager and young adult searching for something and worshiping a god didn't do anything for me.

That said if there was an all powerful god looking out for us as you say, then if it wanted to make itself seen to everyone then there would be no choice in whether or not you see it.

But your god doesn't do that instead you are taking the words of people that lived over 2000 years ago as proof.

It's hearsay at best

 

[Blues Man]

No. That's not what I said. Subjectivity prevents some from seeing truth. So instead of arguing that point with you, I am telling you that the reason you can't get rid of your concept of fairness is because that's been hardwired into you by God. There is the proof you HAVEN'T been looking for. So now I expect you to dismiss it because it challenges your beliefs.

Where have I ever mentioned fairness?

I know there is no such thing.

Life isn't fair and it never has been.

So stop making up shit and telling me I said it.

 

[Colin norris]

God is love, a pure love.

Good doesn't exist so exhibits no affection whatsoever. Its you suckers that love him as if your life depends on it.
Get a grip on yourselves. You're delusional.

 

[Meriweather]

I have looked
I spent years of my life as a teenager and young adult searching for something and worshiping a god didn't do anything for me.

What were you expecting Him to do for you?

 

[Blues Man]

What were you expecting Him to do for you?

Nothing.

I was looking to do something for myself not to have anyone do anything for me.

 

[Meriweather]

Nothing.

I was looking to do something for myself not to have anyone do anything for me.

You noted that you were worshiping a God who didn't do anything for you...but you had no expectations--or wish--that He would. Am I understanding that correctly?

Christianity begins with a love of God which begins the process of loving God's ways (laws) and serving Him. Judaism begins with loving God's laws and serving Him which leads to loving God.

Serving our fellow man is the way we serve God. Where mankind has troubles is when we wish to serve only ourselves and have no respect for Law.

An agnostic who seeks good (keeping the Law) and extends a helping hand to others, in my opinion, is on the path to loving God.

 

[Blues Man]

You noted that you were worshiping a God who didn't do anything for you...but you had no expectations--or wish--that He would. Am I understanding that correctly?

Christianity begins with a love of God which begins the process of loving God's ways (laws) and serving Him. Judaism begins with loving God's laws and serving Him which leads to loving God.

Serving our fellow man is the way we serve God. Where mankind has troubles is when we wish to serve only ourselves and have no respect for Law.

An agnostic who seeks good (keeping the Law) and extends a helping hand to others, in my opinion, is on the path to loving God.

So to find a god you have to love him first? And I didn't worship I was attending services, talking to priests and reading the bible as well as some other works.

I'm not a person to simply believe because that's what I am told to do. In all my time spent studying various religions there was nothing I came across that sparked the belief that seems to be a prerequisite.