How do we stop "the poor" from being so problematic?

[danielpalos]

That is correct. "General welfare". Could mean pretty much anything.

Which proves how idiotic your position is. Because that would mean unlimited power for the federal government and we all know (even the most radical left-wing asshat) that that is not the case.

Does the Constitution clarify the "general welfare" statement any further? Please enlighten me, since I need a lesson on the US Constitution.

Yeah - the U.S. Constitution makes it very clear that the federal government is explicitly restricted to the 18 enumerated powers. Therefore the "general welfare" clause couldn't possibly extend beyond those 18 enumerated powers.

As Thomas Jefferson explained - the "general welfare" clause appplies only to those specific 18 powers.

Thanks, friend.

I looked up the 18 enumerated powers...

and unless there is a DIFFERENT list of 18 enumerated powers, the FIRST of the 18 states:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" (emphasis mine)

Therefore the "general welfare" clause couldn't possibly extend beyond those 18 enumerated powers because it is ONE OF THE 18 ENUMERATED POWERS.

If I am wrong, and there is another 18 enumerated powers, please show me.

Thank you,

The Supreme Court held the understanding of the General Welfare Clause contained in the Taxing and Spending Clause adheres to the construction given it by Associate Justice Joseph Story in his 1833 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States.[5][6] Justice Story concluded that the General Welfare Clause is not a grant of general legislative power,[5][7] but a qualification on the taxing power[5][8][9] which includes within it a federal power to spend federal revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government.
General welfare clause - Wikipedia

This does not support your conclusion that it is an enumerated power but it does support the premise that congress can spend money on damn near anything it chooses, which of course should be evident when you look at the debt.

Yes, we raise money for the general welfare, not the general badfare nor the general warfare.

 

[OnePercenter]

party economics is simple.

Party economics is simple...Detroit had to file bankruptcy after 65 years of complete utopian control by which party? The Democrats!

California is somewhere between $400 billion and $2 trillion in debt after control by which party? The Democrats!

That's due to workers not making enough money.

Uh.....no. That's due to failed left-wing soclialist policy.

No, it's capitalist racketeering.

 

[danielpalos]

The Supreme Court held the understanding of the General Welfare Clause contained in the Taxing and Spending Clause adheres to the construction given it by Associate Justice Joseph Story in his 1833 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States.[5][6] Justice Story concluded that the General Welfare Clause is not a grant of general legislative power,[5][7] but a qualification on the taxing power[5][8][9] which includes within it a federal power to spend federal revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government.
General welfare clause - Wikipedia

Do you know what the beauty of the U.S. Constitution is? It never authorized the Supreme Court (or any other body) to determine what it says. It is the supreme law of the land, written in stone, and says exactly what it says.

Yes, the social Power to provide for the general welfare, is specifically enumerated.

 

[danielpalos]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I am a radical left-wing fascist

Your hate for the U.S. Constitution and your desperate desire to pervert what it says for your agneda.

I have no agenda. And where did I say anything about hating the Constitution?

It is just right wing projection; they have no problem "waterboarding" our Constitution until it says what they mean.

 

[OnePercenter]

Or you can regulate employers to do the right thing.

Who gets to dictate what the "right" thing is? You?

Where do you or anyone derive the power to tell employers what to do?

Ninety-five percent of employers will fuck you over any chance they get.

Why do we have illegal immigrants? Employers pay them.

Pay your employer for healthcare? It goes to his/her vacation fund.

I have a friend that owns an Olive Garden. An ice machine shorts out causing a fire closing his restaurant for a month. His business interruption insurance pay him AND his employees. He strong arms his employees to work at different restaurants that he owns and pockets their pay from insurance.

Employers/corporations are necessary evils that shouldn't be trusted.

you don't know much about insurance either

that type of insurance pays the owner and has nothing to do with employees

Bullshit! Business interruption insurance pays employee costs.

 

[BrokeLoser]

That would have to be studied on a case by case basis. More than likely those people made a lot of mistakes in life and that's what contributed to their plight.

I work in industry and deal with customers who use temporary services. When they get busy and ask their temporary help to work overtime, many times they refuse. Why? Because it would interfere with one of their government goodies--usually food stamps.

Temporaries keep their income purposely low so they can continue to collect handouts. That puts them in this category of "working poor" that you speak of. There have even been stories of places with huge minimum wage increases that makes employees work less hours for the same reason.

The answer is simple. Raise minimum wage to $15.00/hr.

Comprehension problems I presume?

I just got done stating to you that places that took huge increases in minimum wage had no impact on the so-called poor because they simply worked less hours. And you come back with "the answer is simple, raise minimum wage to $15.00 per hour?"

Here in the city of Cleveland, it's an entirely Democrat run government which is how it got ran into a hole. But a few months ago, the city tried to increase the minimum wage to $15.00 per hour. Even these liberal Democrats voted it down. Why? Because they knew it would chase industry out of Cleveland and into the suburbs.

The next step was to convince the county (Cuyahoga) to adopt Cleveland's idea so that businesses would not have to move to the suburbs. The county refused to go along with the idea for the same reason: it would chase businesses out of the county to adjoining counties.

When you create problems for businesses, businesses respond, and not likely in a positive way. It's one of the reasons tax abatements work when trying to attract businesses to your city or state. Show them that you are willing to give them tax breaks to make it financially easier to run their business, and they will choose you over a higher taxed city or state.

National minimum wage of $15.00/hr.

Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs designed for high school kids and the brainless.
If 35 year old Juan and Guadalupe weren't trying to make burger flipping a lifelong career we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Would this be an issue if we sent 10 million or so Juan's and Guadalupe's home?

The minimum wage was established so employers couldn't screw their employees. Unfortunately for American workers, Republicans have done well in keeping wages low.

True.
And I doubt many children earning minimum wage feel screwed by their employers.
Again, minimum wage jobs are and always have been entry level jobs reserved for children seeking work experience and our brainless, degenerate adults. This is only an issue now because 35 year old Guadalupe and Juan can't raise their six anchor babies on a minimum wage salary. News flash...we aren't real sensitive to the wants of people whom shouldn't be here to begin with.
Watch the minimum wage beggar marches, you won't see a single American kid in the group yet you'll find a thousand pathetic 35 year olds waving a Mexico flag and screaming in foreign language; "we want more from your taxpayers and consumers"

 

[OnePercenter]

Ninety-five percent of employers will fuck you over any chance they get.

100% of government will fuck you over any chance they get. The difference? I can choose not to do business or work for a corporation. A luxury we do not have when it comes to government.

You can buy things (such as food) from a non-business? You can work for a non-corporation?

 

[OnePercenter]

Name one business that can't afford to pay a $15.00 minimum wage.

Literally every business in the world cannot afford to pay a $15 minimum wage. You are clueless about basic economics and business.

I'll bet big business told you that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Or you can regulate employers to do the right thing.

Who gets to dictate what the "right" thing is? You?

Where do you or anyone derive the power to tell employers what to do?

Ninety-five percent of employers will fuck you over any chance they get.

Why do we have illegal immigrants? Employers pay them.

Pay your employer for healthcare? It goes to his/her vacation fund.

I have a friend that owns an Olive Garden. An ice machine shorts out causing a fire closing his restaurant for a month. His business interruption insurance pay him AND his employees. He strong arms his employees to work at different restaurants that he owns and pockets their pay from insurance.

Employers/corporations are necessary evils that shouldn't be trusted.

you don't know much about insurance either

that type of insurance pays the owner and has nothing to do with employees

Bullshit! Business interruption insurance pays employee costs.

no it pays the business owner. if the business has to be closed for any length of time there is no obligation to pay the employees from the insurance money

 

[P@triot]

I have no agenda. And where did I say anything about hating the Constitution?

Only people who hate the U.S. Constitution attempt to pervert it. People who love the protections and liberty that it provides accept it exactly the way it is.

 

[P@triot]

Name one business that can't afford to pay a $15.00 minimum wage.

Literally every business in the world cannot afford to pay a $15 minimum wage. You are clueless about basic economics and business.

I'll bet big business told you that.

No...reality told me that. All of the businesses closing their doors or fleeing California told me that.

 

[xotoxi]

I have no agenda. And where did I say anything about hating the Constitution?

Only people who hate the U.S. Constitution attempt to pervert it. People who love the protections and liberty that it provides accept it exactly the way it is.

But in your case, you take the words of the Constitution "written in stone" and you enhance it with Jefferson's explanation as to what "general welfare" means.

Explain "general welfare" using only words written in the Constitution.

 

[OnePercenter]

National minimum wage of $15.00/hr.

What if a business can't afford to pay $15 minimum wage? This is common, even in states with high costs of living like California.

Name one business that can't afford to pay a $15.00 minimum wage.

Every small business in the country barely making a profit and or breaking even.
Do you think there are any of those?

Business in this country is making profit at record levels.

NEGATIVE.
That's an awfully ambiguous statement...nice try.
Your right, Google, Apple, Microsoft and the like are killing it.
There's about 19,000 companies with 500 or more employees and 28 million "small businesses". Small businesses create 64% of new private sector jobs.
Most small businesses do not become profitable until their third year in business. I know many small business owners who definitely are not getting rich...they employ many people, turn lots of cash but at the end of the day they aren't taking much home.
You people really need to stop categorizing all businesses in with McDonald's and the majors. Small business is the heart and soul of this nation.

-Any business that is properly 'proceedured' and financed makes profit day one.

-If you open a business without the goal of being wealthy, why would you open the business?

-Smart business owners don't take 'much home.' OPM (the company) pays their bills. Why do you think Trump doesn't want to release his taxes?

'You people" need to understand that the heart and soul of this nation are it's workers. Why do you and yours continue to back those (Republicans) that continue to fuck them?

 

[OnePercenter]

Name one business that can't afford to pay a $15.00 minimum wage.

Literally every business in the world cannot afford to pay a $15 minimum wage. You are clueless about basic economics and business.

I'll bet big business told you that.

No...reality told me that. All of the businesses closing their doors or fleeing California told me that.

If California were a country, wouldn't it be the 8th largest in GDP in the world? What businesses are leaving?

 

[ricechickie]

National minimum wage of $15.00/hr.

What if a business can't afford to pay $15 minimum wage? This is common, even in states with high costs of living like California.

Name one business that can't afford to pay a $15.00 minimum wage.

Every small business in the country barely making a profit and or breaking even.
Do you think there are any of those?

Business in this country is making profit at record levels.

NEGATIVE.
That's an awfully ambiguous statement...nice try.
Your right, Google, Apple, Microsoft and the like are killing it.
There's about 19,000 companies with 500 or more employees and 28 million "small businesses". Small businesses create 64% of new private sector jobs.
Most small businesses do not become profitable until their third year in business. I know many small business owners who definitely are not getting rich...they employ many people, turn lots of cash but at the end of the day they aren't taking much home.
You people really need to stop categorizing all businesses in with McDonald's and the majors. Small business is the heart and soul of this nation.

Small businesses should probably stop throwing their political weight in with those large corporations. Like you said, they are a different breed, and have different needs.

 

[OnePercenter]

What if a business can't afford to pay $15 minimum wage? This is common, even in states with high costs of living like California.

Name one business that can't afford to pay a $15.00 minimum wage.

Every small business in the country barely making a profit and or breaking even.
Do you think there are any of those?

Business in this country is making profit at record levels.

NEGATIVE.
That's an awfully ambiguous statement...nice try.
Your right, Google, Apple, Microsoft and the like are killing it.
There's about 19,000 companies with 500 or more employees and 28 million "small businesses". Small businesses create 64% of new private sector jobs.
Most small businesses do not become profitable until their third year in business. I know many small business owners who definitely are not getting rich...they employ many people, turn lots of cash but at the end of the day they aren't taking much home.
You people really need to stop categorizing all businesses in with McDonald's and the majors. Small business is the heart and soul of this nation.

Small businesses should probably stop throwing their political weight in with those large corporations. Like you said, they are a different breed, and have different needs.

What different needs?

 

[P@triot]

You can buy things (such as food) from a non-business?

Uh...yeah dude. People have their own gardens and raise their own chickens, cows, etc. They hunt deer.

Also - you have a huge choice of options for foods. Pretending like your fantasy is real for a moment and every single grocery store in America will "fuck you over" (which we all know is not true), they have these things called CSA (Community-Supported Agriculture). You are like an "investor" in the farm. You pay and the farmer provides you with a weekly percentage of the harvest (meats, fruits, vegetables).

You can work for a non-corporation?

Yeah...it's called "self-employment". It's where you sell your own labor for the price you feel is fair.

Do you play the helpless victim in every facet of your life or just when you're on message boards?

 

[P@triot]

Yes, the social Power to provide for the general welfare, is specifically enumerated.

There is no "social power to provide". The federal government is explicitly restricted to 18 enumerated powers and "social powers to provide" is not one of them.

 

[Flopper]

I have no agenda. And where did I say anything about hating the Constitution?

Only people who hate the U.S. Constitution attempt to pervert it. People who love the protections and liberty that it provides accept it exactly the way it is.

But in your case, you take the words of the Constitution "written in stone" and you enhance it with Jefferson's explanation as to what "general welfare" means.

Explain "general welfare" using only words written in the Constitution.

50 years from now, no one is going to be arguing over the meaning of "general welfare" because the changes we have seen over the last 50 years in the workforce are going accelerate rapidly resulting in a steady job lost of unskilled, low skilled, as well as many high skill jobs. The need for goverment assistance and job sharing will continue to increase as more and more jobs are eliminated.

Technology and robotics specifically are going to eliminate 6% of US jobs by 2021. By 2050, we lose up to 40% of all jobs, starting with customer service representatives, restaurant workers, retail store clerks, and eventually truck and taxi drivers. Practically all hard goods will either be manufactured abroad or in plants that require only a bare minimum workforce.

Job loses are going to be accompanied by new jobs but those jobs are going to require very high skill levels, college plus specialized training and continual retraining. Most blue collar workers will be working part time and drawing some form of support from the government.

Projections such these may seem to be a doomsday scenario but for many it will be a fulfillment of what people have been dreaming of for centuries, machines that do our work leaving us free for other endeavors. The question of course is how will we adapt?

Robots will eliminate 6% of all US jobs by 2021, report says

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, the social Power to provide for the general welfare, is specifically enumerated.

There is no "social power to provide". The federal government is explicitly restricted to 18 enumerated powers and "social powers to provide" is not one of them.

Yes, there is; you merely have lousy reading comprehension, and nothing but repeal.