How do we measure up in 2008

[N4mddissent]

From Thomas Jefferson's first inaugural address:

And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.... error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.... I deem the essential principles of our government.... Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; ... freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.
-- Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1801​

207 years later, people running for the highest office in the land are attacked on religion, founded or unfounded. Name-calling and spite based upon political philosophy is more common than reasoned debate on topics. Habeus Corpus can be suspended at a whim. How far will we fall?

 

[elvis]

From Thomas Jefferson's first inaugural address:

And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.... error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.... I deem the essential principles of our government.... Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; ... freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.
-- Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1801​

207 years later, people running for the highest office in the land are attacked on religion, founded or unfounded. Name-calling and spite based upon political philosophy is more common than reasoned debate on topics. Habeus Corpus can be suspended at a whim. How far will we fall?

we will fall a long ways. wait till the next terrorist attack. it will get worse. Jefferson wouldn't like our meddling in the Middle East, either.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

From Thomas Jefferson's first inaugural address:

And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.... error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.... I deem the essential principles of our government.... Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; ... freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.
-- Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1801​

207 years later, people running for the highest office in the land are attacked on religion, founded or unfounded. Name-calling and spite based upon political philosophy is more common than reasoned debate on topics. Habeus Corpus can be suspended at a whim. How far will we fall?

Jefferson had slaves and supported slavery and yet says "equal and exact justice for all men, of what ever state or persuasion, religious or political.." Great speech, just a little tad bit of lying involved in it.

 

[sparky]

what would our founding fathers view us as today is an interesting debate

'ol TJ....well....Halli Berrie might have some trouble with him......doesn't make him a bad man, does it?

 

[bigdaddygtr]

We are nothing like the image our founding fathers had for us. The number one problem being the fact that we have no Separation of Church and State which is exactly what they didn't want(nor me)

I got an idea, lets stop putting Jesus into our laws since, of course, the man lived 2,000 years ago

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We are nothing like the image our founding fathers had for us. The number one problem being the fact that we have no Separation of Church and State which is exactly what they didn't want(nor me)

I got an idea, lets stop putting Jesus into our laws since, of course, the man lived 2,000 years ago

You are aware that Jefferson attended Religious worship every Sunday in the Congress?

 

[bigdaddygtr]

You are aware that Jefferson attended Religious worship every Sunday in the Congress?

What does that have to do with putting Jesus into law? He understood the difference

 

[Skull Pilot]

Jefferson had slaves and supported slavery and yet says "equal and exact justice for all men, of what ever state or persuasion, religious or political.." Great speech, just a little tad bit of lying involved in it.

What Jefferson lied????***






***Sarcasm

He was a politician after all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What does that have to do with putting Jesus into law? He understood the difference

And yet we have the Declaration of Independence. Be so kind as to find the phrase " separation of Church and State" anywhere in the Constitution.

You are aware that several of the States had OFFICIAL State religions well into the 1820's?

The only thing the Constitution forbids is the recognition of one Religion over all others by the FEDERAL Government. As in NO State religion.

Perhaps you can explain why even today Congress opens each session and each day in session with a prayer?

 

[editec]

Enamored as I am by the founding fathers, and as impressed as I am by their efforts to forge a lasting constitutional form of government, their 18th century solutions to their 18th century world are not good guides for dealing with our 21st world problems.

While we can and should strive to hold on to their ideals, of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all, it is time for us to look for solutions suited to our time and circumstances.

We can no more model our national policies based on what those early Republicans did than we can turn back the hands of time.

Theirs was an almost insignificant nation in the world scene, isolated and protected from the world's great powers and worldwide conflicts by two wide oceans.

Their nation still had over a million square miles of wildness land to tame, and so most of our founding fathers important duties were keeping the rest of the world at bay while we working things out domestically.

We are now a world superpower, with no lands left to tame, and those oceans which once protected us are essantially meaningless.

Jefferson and Washinton would be as flummoxed by the international and domestic problems we face today as Obama and McCain will be.

The founding fathers were men not miracle workers, folks.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What Jefferson lied????***






***Sarcasm

He was a politician after all.

And note his GREAT defender fails to address it.