How do we eliminate poverty?

[theHawk]

I guess part of that is how do we define poverty. Id like to see the ideas people come up with.

First, we do need to redefine what poverty really is in this country. Most people who live in so-called poverty just don't know how to manage their money. They're buying 20" rims for their hoopty rather than putting it to good use.
However, we will always have people living in poverty because they choose to be lazy. Providing these types of people with hand-outs and welfare only perpetuates the problem.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

scale test food stamps
Men over 185 and woman over 145 NO FOOD STAMPS

What a ******* dumb ass!!!!

 

[Nosmo King]

There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.

That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.

Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available. Or, more usu sally, the jobs that are available do not provide enough hours or wages or benefits to support their families.

Food stamps? Nope! Get a job! Public housing or Section Eight rent subsidies? Nope! Get a job!

Seems "Nope! Get a job!" is a standard pat answer from those who have either never experienced the heartbreak of a factory leaving America and, subsequently all the ancillary jobs associated with that factory or, are just too short sighted to understand that heartbreak.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Under your assumption, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, Germany would be poor states full of poor lazy people, while El Salvador, Somalia, or the Central African Republic would be states with less poverty because welfare systems don't exist there. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense and it isn't the case.

and what's their tax rate?


FAIL....and I don't mean that in a bad way...

How is that a fail? Because they have high taxes? So what? You people are the ones who endlessly say that "Oh my god, the rich are going to run away with high taxes." Don't see any rich running away from friggin' Norway because they have to pay a lot of taxes.

There's one thing you left out. Their citizens are taught from an early age to have good work ethics(as I alluded to in an earlier post) to support themselves and their welfare State.

Well, then maybe the problem isn't the welfare state, but that you should teach children from an early age to have a good work ethic. Don't forget social solidarity, that's a big one in the Nordic countries... What I do FAIL to see is what that has anything to do with your claim that welfare = lazy people.

Here in America where in excess of 20 trillion dollars has been thrown at the poverty problem since the 1940's.....yet it still exists and in fact has increased!!!! Now...explain that.

20 trillion dollars? Really? Says who? And poverty increased since the 40s? Says who?

Out of the developed countries, isn't the US supposed to be the one with the least redistribution, taxes, social assistance and all those bad socialist things that lead to 'Evil'? Isn't that the big difference between the US and Europe? Isn't this the problem with Obama, that he's a radical who's changing the US to be a Socialist Europe state? Hmmm...

Fail...because you shot your mouth off without reading the entire thread....next time read up...then make an informed response. Didn't you learn anything in University? other than the love of liberalism and the nanny state that is...

 

[PatekPhilippe]

There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.

That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.

Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available. Or, more usu sally, the jobs that are available do not provide enough hours or wages or benefits to support their families.

Food stamps? Nope! Get a job! Public housing or Section Eight rent subsidies? Nope! Get a job!

Seems "Nope! Get a job!" is a standard pat answer from those who have either never experienced the heartbreak of a factory leaving America and, subsequently all the ancillary jobs associated with that factory or, are just too short sighted to understand that heartbreak.

That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a ******* idiot.
There is no such thing as lifetime employment...like there is in Europe.

 

[JBeukema]

I guess part of that is how do we define poverty. Id like to see the ideas people come up with.

The root cause of entrenched poverty is a lack on money in the first place.

If that were the case, the Blacks would be out of the ghetto by now, with all the money that's been thrown at them.

Now before you start telling me to get serious consider the fact that:

IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY in a society based on the system we call CAPITALISM.​

Get a job and you get money. Prove yourself the honest sort and you can apply for small business loans and/or grants.

See: investment capital

 

[Nosmo King]

There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.

That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.

Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available. Or, more usu sally, the jobs that are available do not provide enough hours or wages or benefits to support their families.

Food stamps? Nope! Get a job! Public housing or Section Eight rent subsidies? Nope! Get a job!

Seems "Nope! Get a job!" is a standard pat answer from those who have either never experienced the heartbreak of a factory leaving America and, subsequently all the ancillary jobs associated with that factory or, are just too short sighted to understand that heartbreak.

That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a ******* idiot.
There is no such thing as lifetime employment...like there is in Europe.

The unemployed are not "******* idiots". They have lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. How short sighted of you to think they are idiots.

I live in the Rust Belt. There are many one factory towns lining the banks of the Ohio River. When a steel mill packs up its operations and moves to Singapore, and all the jobs are lost, and the rest of the town's economy goes in the tank, what makes all the citizens who lost their opportunities "******* idiots'?

I'm sure you will say, they should just move to where the jobs are. Good answer! Now, will you tell me who will come and buy their houses so they can have the means to live until the new jobs in the new locations come to be?

"******* idiots"! Typical condescending claptrap from Conservatives without a clue!

 

[JBeukema]

Who needs teachers?

**** 'em if they're no good.

Library - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[topspin]

How about free public college?

 

[JBeukema]

The history of the building of a middle class in American can go along way to explaining how Americans can build wealth adn climb out of poverty.

Tell me if you can when this country developed a sizeable middle class?

After socialist reforms were put into place and capitalism was muzzled following the industrial revolution, allowing the proletariat to benefit from their increased production through minimum wages that prevented the bourgeoisie simply keeping the added profit.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

How about free public college?

Socialist! Heretic!

If your parents didn't make enough money for you to go to college TOUGH SHIT. You will pay for their mistakes! Only the offspring of responsible people can have the privilege of an education!

Don't like it? MOVE TO EUROPE!

<_>

 

[PatekPhilippe]

That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.

Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available. Or, more usu sally, the jobs that are available do not provide enough hours or wages or benefits to support their families.

Food stamps? Nope! Get a job! Public housing or Section Eight rent subsidies? Nope! Get a job!

Seems "Nope! Get a job!" is a standard pat answer from those who have either never experienced the heartbreak of a factory leaving America and, subsequently all the ancillary jobs associated with that factory or, are just too short sighted to understand that heartbreak.

That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a ******* idiot.
There is no such thing as lifetime employment...like there is in Europe.

The unemployed are not "******* idiots". They have lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. How short sighted of you to think they are idiots.

I live in the Rust Belt. There are many one factory towns lining the banks of the Ohio River. When a steel mill packs up its operations and moves to Singapore, and all the jobs are lost, and the rest of the town's economy goes in the tank, what makes all the citizens who lost their opportunities "******* idiots'?

I'm sure you will say, they should just move to where the jobs are. Good answer! Now, will you tell me who will come and buy their houses so they can have the means to live until the new jobs in the new locations come to be?

"******* idiots"! Typical condescending claptrap from Conservatives without a clue!

Reread post...comprehend correctly...comment appropriately. Like I said idiot who cannot understand basic english....if you don't have a back up plan for when things go wrong YOU'RE A ******* IDIOT!!!!!! Got that?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

How about free public college?

Socialist! Heretic!

If your parents didn't make enough money for you to go to college TOUGH SHIT. You will pay for their mistakes! Only the offspring of responsible people can have the privilege of an education!

Don't like it? MOVE TO EUROPE!

<_>

What about all those student loans...like the ones you got for your liberal arts degree that's ******* worthless.

 

[JBeukema]

There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.

That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.

Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available.

Of course, we must simultaneously consider, along with other fiscal policies, whether the increased taxation necessitated by further extension of such programs has a marked effect upon the ability of individuals to reintroduce their funds into the market through discretionary spending and/or of businesses to reinvest in their business through either further expansion and purchase of materials wholesale or through the growth of their staff (that is, through hiring new employees).

I've not seen the numbers.

As a social democrat, I support the existence of a social safety net for our citizens. However, we must balance such concerns with what will best help the economy grow in the long run so those people can once again find gainful employment and become self-supporting.

In California, I saw waht happens when people do nothing to help people become gainfully employed and make them too comfortable in their poverty. With 2 hot meals a day and a bag lunch, showers every day, free clothes, a shelter next door, bus passes, no drug tests, and no requirement to prove you were actively seeking employment, people literally spent years in and around the shelter and the center next to it. It did nothing to alleviate the problem and the resulting environment was toxic to those who with intentions of improving their lot.

Back in my home State, I saw things done right. Random drug tests, regular meetings with a case worker, and a strict policy that if you were late a single time during the first stage of the program, you were out. Strict documentation of the businesses you'd contacted and whom you spoken with, as well as other policies, helped people find work while weeding out those who weren't serious about improving their condition. So long as you did as you were supposed to, they'd alleviate you emergency needs for food and clothing and help place you in first a shelter and then a housing program.

It's the difference between handouts and a hand up.

 

[Nosmo King]

That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a ******* idiot.
There is no such thing as lifetime employment...like there is in Europe.

The unemployed are not "******* idiots". They have lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. How short sighted of you to think they are idiots.

I live in the Rust Belt. There are many one factory towns lining the banks of the Ohio River. When a steel mill packs up its operations and moves to Singapore, and all the jobs are lost, and the rest of the town's economy goes in the tank, what makes all the citizens who lost their opportunities "******* idiots'?

I'm sure you will say, they should just move to where the jobs are. Good answer! Now, will you tell me who will come and buy their houses so they can have the means to live until the new jobs in the new locations come to be?

"******* idiots"! Typical condescending claptrap from Conservatives without a clue!

Reread post...comprehend correctly...comment appropriately. Like I said idiot who cannot understand basic english....if you don't have a back up plan for when things go wrong YOU'RE A ******* IDIOT!!!!!! Got that?

Let's delve into the real world for just a second. You work in a steel mill. Just as two or three generations before you have. It's absolutely fair to assume that the mill will not close. But, as your job has a degree of risk, it's assumed that you have a backup plan should you get hurt on the job.

Most of the folks affected by the loss of the steel industry ran under such an assumption.

But, the notion that the mill would close and pack up its equipment and move the whole operation overseas was never NEVER on anyone's radar. Jobs were permanently lost due to no fault of the workers.

And now, simple minded, no life experience Conservatives condescend to those workers and blame them for their lack of foresight.

Disgusting and contemptible.

 

[JBeukema]

How about free public college?

Grants.gov


Federal Pell Grant - apply for Pell Grant

 

[Epsilon Delta]

How about free public college?

Socialist! Heretic!

If your parents didn't make enough money for you to go to college TOUGH SHIT. You will pay for their mistakes! Only the offspring of responsible people can have the privilege of an education!

Don't like it? MOVE TO EUROPE!

<_>

What about all those student loans...like the ones you got for your liberal arts degree that's ******* worthless.

Oh my god, are you serious? Student loans as in federally guaranteed student loan program loans? You pinko. That sort of socialist policy should be abolished. How can anybody expect people to work hard if their children will just be able to get government loans for their studies that have lower interest and easier repayment terms than the market? You're advocating for a policy that is going to destroy this country, you liberal.

Only people who can pay the $40,000 market rate for a *private* education deserve to go to school. Student loans? Community college? Public universities? That's for a buncha bloodsucking parasites, that is! Didn't have a backup plan to save $160,000 for your kid's bachelor degree? Well shove it then, idiot.

 

[JBeukema]

How about free public college?

Socialist! Heretic!

If your parents didn't make enough money for you to go to college TOUGH SHIT. You will pay for their mistakes! Only the offspring of responsible people can have the privilege of an education!

Don't like it? MOVE TO EUROPE!

<_>

What about all those student loans...like the ones you got for your liberal arts degree that's ******* worthless.

Loans?

He said 'free'.

So I'll link him to grants and we'll all pretend his taxes (and ours) won't be paying for it .

 

[Nosmo King]

There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.

That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.

Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available.

Of course, we must simultaneously consider, along with other fiscal policies, whether the increased taxation necessitated by further extension of such programs has a marked effect upon the ability of individuals to reintroduce their funds into the market through discretionary spending and/or of businesses to reinvest in their business through either further expansion and purchase of materials wholesale or through the growth of their staff (that is, through hiring new employees).

I've not seen the numbers.

As a social democrat, I support the existence of a social safety net for our citizens. However, we must balance such concerns with what will best help the economy grow in the long run so those people can once again find gainful employment and become self-supporting.

In California, I saw waht happens when people do nothing to help people become gainfully employed and make them too comfortable in their poverty. With 2 hot meals a day and a bag lunch, showers every day, free clothes, a shelter next door, bus passes, no drug tests, and no requirement to prove you were actively seeking employment, people literally spent years in and around the shelter and the center next to it. It did nothing to alleviate the problem and the resulting environment was toxic to those who with intentions of improving their lot.

Back in my home State, I saw things done right. Random drug tests, regular meetings with a case worker, and a strict policy that if you were late a single time during the first stage of the program, you were out. Strict documentation of the businesses you'd contacted and whom you spoken with, as well as other policies, helped people find work while weeding out those who weren't serious about improving their condition. So long as you did as you were supposed to, they'd alleviate you emergency needs for food and clothing and help place you in first a shelter and then a housing program.

It's the difference between handouts and a hand up.

People want to work. They take extra training and classes to help further their careers.

People also want to simply feed their families. They aren't looking to become a permanent underclass. They have been thrown out of jobs due to no fault of their own. Extending benefits simply helps them bridge that gap between the career they once thrived in and whatever opportunities may or may not come along.

And at 10% unemployment, it's not as if there are large enough numbers to leech from such largess.

Priorities among the Right wing seem to include keeping as much for themselves while denying anything to anyone else, except, of course, military contractors.

Rather than watch Americans lose everything, why not just cancel one aircraft carrier or battleship? What's the use of defending this nation if we have fellow Americans living in perpetual poverty just because there aren't the jobs to keep them busy and working?