How do we eliminate poverty?

[Angelhair]

Get rid of the dems = 'keep them barefoot and pregnant'........they prey on the poor.

 

[chanel]

Just a note to those suggesting things like work ethic and education (which are valuable, no doubt): you're offering suggestions for how an individual can make the jump from poverty. But unless your assumption is that if everyone were a hard worker and well-educated, there would be no poverty (i.e. no low wage work to be done), then there are large structural components missing here.

Wrong assumption...what I'm suggesting is that parents aren't parenting....they're leaving that up to the State.

I've been on my soap box long enough on this forum about teen pregnancy, but it's something I deal with daily, and something that people in my community refuse to acknowledge. Unwed motherhood is the number one cause of poverty.

One of my teen mom students wrote an essay about where she'd like to go on vacation. She said in 7 years she would like to go to Disney World with her daughter and hoped that HER MOM would have enough money by then. She just graduated from high school and has NO PLANS for herself or her baby's daddy to take care of this baby. Not now; and not in SEVEN YEARS. Scary.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Just a note to those suggesting things like work ethic and education (which are valuable, no doubt): you're offering suggestions for how an individual can make the jump from poverty. But unless your assumption is that if everyone were a hard worker and well-educated, there would be no poverty (i.e. no low wage work to be done), then there are large structural components missing here.

Wrong assumption...what I'm suggesting is that parents aren't parenting....they're leaving that up to the State.

I've been on my soap box long enough on this forum about teen pregnancy, but it's something I deal with daily, and something that people in my community refuse to acknowledge. Unwed motherhood is the number one cause of poverty.

One of my teen mom students wrote an essay about where she'd like to go on vacation. She said in 7 years she would like to go to Disney World with her daughter and hoped that HER MOM would have enough money by then. She just graduated from high school and has NO PLANS for herself or her baby's daddy to take care of this baby. Not now; and not in SEVEN YEARS. Scary.

Precisely my point. The welfare state encourages poverty as a means to control the people. If you promise them that they will get something for free because their income falls below a certain level that re-enforces a lazy, shiftless attitude about helping yourself out of the situation you're in. All one has to do is look at the Muslim ghettos in France...they give them free housing and a monthly check. That's what Obama wants for America.

 

[Madeline]

chanel, some educators spit on poor children. I have a family member who teaches fourth grade and should not. She chose to leave a private school setting and enter a public school one for better money and benefits, but she despises the kids, their parents, the administrators, the other teachers -- even the janitors. I have no doubt she is not the only such teacher. To be 9 years old and have your teacher think you are human garbage is pretty damned disabling.

So is living in high crime areas, exposure to lead paint, chronic insecurity about home, lack of access to fresh fruits and vegetables, etc.

I don't think it is realistic to talk about eliminating poverty. But I do think we once had much greater economic mobility in this country than we now do. And yes, I think that was primarily on offer through education.

 

[chanel]

Of course there are bad teachers. Just like any other profession. But I teach high school and while I have a few bad thoughts about some of these parents, it still makes me sad that there are some students that are not only apathetic toward education, they are hostile toward it.

But if I still believe in the power of an education to change circumstances. Otherwise, I would have spit back a long time ago. lol

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Poverty will never be eliminated by man. Only God can accomplish that.

Man can steal other mens works and material and divide that up amongst those with less but that will never end poverty. It has been tried on massive scales and failed miserably.

Greed will always win out. Man can not help himself.

 

[MikeK]

I guess part of that is how do we define poverty. Id like to see the ideas people come up with.

The root cause of entrenched poverty is a lack on money in the first place.

Now before you start telling me to get serious consider the fact that:

IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY in a society based on the system we call CAPITALISM.​

Note that we do not call our system WORKISM, or PRODUCTIVISM, or LABORISM?​

That's kinda a CLUE about what bullshit walks and what bullshit talks in this society, is it not?​

Of course, there will always be the cases of the po' boy who through luck and pluck made it big, but those are the exceptions to the normal human condition, not the rule.

Remember, if we could ALL be Bill Gates or Warren Buffet there would be no Bill Gates or Warren Buffets.

Good points.

 

[Madeline]

Of course there are bad teachers. Just like any other profession. But I teach high school and while I have a few bad thoughts about some of these parents, it still makes me sad that there are some students that are not only apathetic toward education, they are hostile toward it.

But if I still believe in the power of an education to change circumstances. Otherwise, I would have spit back a long time ago. lol

I agree -- and BTW, thankies for staying on as a teacher. However, the hostility towards education is not limited to poor people. Many, many many wealthier students and their parents now think every kid deserves a good grade without working for it, and far too many schools are awarding just that very thing.

When parents go after a teacher who marks kids down for plagarising, it is the parents who are teaching the kids that education does not matter if you can get over. Poor kids just have less luck "getting over".

 

[chanel]

Oh I agree completely. It's just that the rich kids have other things going for them. For some of the poor kids, this is their only and best chance to break the cycle.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Precisely my point. The welfare state encourages poverty as a means to control the people.

This is simply a false assumption held by reactionaries that have never studied anything about poverty reduction (and I don't mean that in any offensive way). One can counter this assumption merely by looking at a map and knowing a thing or two about living standards in this world.

Compare "welfare states" to "non-welfare states." The fact is that this is virtually the difference of developed and developing countries. Most Developed countries are welfare states. Most Developing countries are non-Welfare states.

Under your assumption, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, Germany would be poor states full of poor lazy people, while El Salvador, Somalia, or the Central African Republic would be states with less poverty because welfare systems don't exist there. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense and it isn't the case.

What really IS laziness is what so many are doing here in this thread with their "yeah well there will always be poverty so fuck it." We'd be in the stone age if these sort of people were in charge. The fact is that poverty is a problem that can and is being solved. Over the past 30 years, hundreds of millions of Indians and Chinese have risen out of poverty, along with countless more millions all over the developing world. Others have stagnated, but the gains made cannot be denied. There are more than enough resources in this world to solve the problem of poverty, and it can be done.

 

[MikeK]

I guess part of that is how do we define poverty. Id like to see the ideas people come up with.

Poverty and wealth are relative terms which are predicated on a given living standard. E.g., poverty in the U.S. is relative luxury in some parts of the world.

I define poverty in the U.S. as inability to afford the bare necessities for sustaining a dignified, healthy existence, which include adequate shelter, adequate food and access to essential health care.

 

[Madeline]

Lots of subjective words there, MikeK. "Dignified"? "Adequate"?

How's about we begin here:

Poverty is:

Insecurity about food, i.e., suffering starvation or severe malnutrition associated with hunger or inadequate food supplies.

 

[Madeline]

And BTW, I am not sure I agree that "poverty is relative". Poor is poor. If you are not poor in China because you have adequate food and a mud hut, how come when you have a cell phone, car, apartment, etc. in the US you can still be poor?

"Poor" has to mean something other than "not rich". It is not just about envy.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Under your assumption, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, Germany would be poor states full of poor lazy people, while El Salvador, Somalia, or the Central African Republic would be states with less poverty because welfare systems don't exist there. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense and it isn't the case.

and what's their tax rate?


FAIL....and I don't mean that in a bad way... There's one thing you left out. Their citizens are taught from an early age to have good work ethics(as I alluded to in an earlier post) to support themselves and their welfare State. Here in America where in excess of 20 trillion dollars has been thrown at the poverty problem since the 1940's.....yet it still exists and in fact has increased!!!! Now...explain that.

 

[Truthmatters]

The history of the building of a middle class in American can go along way to explaining how Americans can build wealth adn climb out of poverty.

Tell me if you can when this country developed a sizeable middle class?

 

[topspin]

scale test food stamps
Men over 185 and woman over 145 NO FOOD STAMPS

 

[Truthmatters]

No one remembers their history about WHY the US developed a huge middle class?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Under your assumption, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, Germany would be poor states full of poor lazy people, while El Salvador, Somalia, or the Central African Republic would be states with less poverty because welfare systems don't exist there. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense and it isn't the case.

and what's their tax rate?


FAIL....and I don't mean that in a bad way...

How is that a fail? Because they have high taxes? So what? You people are the ones who endlessly say that "Oh my god, the rich are going to run away with high taxes." Don't see any rich running away from friggin' Norway because they have to pay a lot of taxes.

There's one thing you left out. Their citizens are taught from an early age to have good work ethics(as I alluded to in an earlier post) to support themselves and their welfare State.

Well, then maybe the problem isn't the welfare state, but that you should teach children from an early age to have a good work ethic. Don't forget social solidarity, that's a big one in the Nordic countries... What I do FAIL to see is what that has anything to do with your claim that welfare = lazy people.

Here in America where in excess of 20 trillion dollars has been thrown at the poverty problem since the 1940's.....yet it still exists and in fact has increased!!!! Now...explain that.

20 trillion dollars? Really? Says who? And poverty increased since the 40s? Says who?

Out of the developed countries, isn't the US supposed to be the one with the least redistribution, taxes, social assistance and all those bad socialist things that lead to 'Evil'? Isn't that the big difference between the US and Europe? Isn't this the problem with Obama, that he's a radical who's changing the US to be a Socialist Europe state? Hmmm...

 

[Douger]

Eliminate the source.

 

[Douger]

No one remembers their history about WHY the US developed a huge middle class?

A fantastic perpetual war economy and the manufacture of weapons of death to supply to the entire world, including it's "enemies" ?
DID I GET IT RIGHT ?