How did the Universe get here?

[Boss]

According to the equation e=m times the quantity c squared. c2 is a quantity, not time.

c= speed of light. Yes, it is a quantity measured by time. Tell me how you can quantify speed without time? While you are at it, tell me how mass can occupy no space?

If Energy = Mass times speed of light squared, then Energy requires space and time to exist.

 

[edthecynic]

Time has only a mathematical value, and no primary physical existence.

that is silly.....the mathematics MEASURE the phenomena......time existed before there was anyone capable of mathematics......

Again you are using the dictionary definition of time. In physics time exists only in terms of motion. In physics time is a mathematical device for the order of events, it is not a physical phenomena like mass or distance. You don't get to change the meaning of the terms used in physics to suit your whims.

 

[Boss]

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed so the energy of the universe cannot = 0

It has to equal 0 if there is no space or time. The formula says so.

We exist in a universe which has space and time, so in that universe with space and time, you are correct, nothing can create or destroy energy and it is defined as e=mc2. We're discussing the absence of space and time, which is a condition that doesn't exist in our universe. In that condition, energy cannot exist because there is no time or space for it to exist. E=0x02... E=0. But hey... that's okay because physical reality no longer exists!

 

[Boss]

In physics time exists only in terms of motion.

No one is arguing this, ed! We understand time is motion. Time is a perception created by an expanding universe. If there is no expanding universe, there is no time. Without time, you can't have motion and energy cannot exist. Is this too far over your head or something?

 

[edthecynic]

According to the equation e=m times the quantity c squared. c2 is a quantity, not time.

c= speed of light. Yes, it is a quantity measured by time. Tell me how you can quantify speed without time? While you are at it, tell me how mass can occupy no space?

If Energy = Mass times speed of light squared, then Energy requires space and time to exist.

Tell me where I said there is no space, that is YOUR Straw Man. The argument is that time is no longer considered a dimension of space/time. There are only dimensions of space, This is why time travel to the past or future is impossible. A person can travel in space only, and time is a numerical order of their motion.

You desperately need some courses in physics!

 

[PostmodernProph]

Time has only a mathematical value, and no primary physical existence.

that is silly.....the mathematics MEASURE the phenomena......time existed before there was anyone capable of mathematics......

Again you are using the dictionary definition of time. In physics time exists only in terms of motion. In physics time is a mathematical device for the order of events, it is not a physical phenomena like mass or distance. You don't get to change the meaning of the terms used in physics to suit your whims.

I tend more to the philosophy of science as opposed to its application.....time is more than a tool of physics, as is our universe.....if you are placed in a sensory deprivation chamber you may feel that time has stopped, because you cannot measure it...but it hasn't......you cannot change reality into mere physics to suit your argument......

 

[Boss]

The speed of light is a RATE of change

Think about what you are saying in relation to what I have stated. If there is no TIME, there can be no "rate of change" in anything. There is no TIME for a rate or change to happen!

 

[edthecynic]

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed so the energy of the universe cannot = 0

It has to equal 0 if there is no space or time. The formula says so.

We exist in a universe which has space and time, so in that universe with space and time, you are correct, nothing can create or destroy energy and it is defined as e=mc2. We're discussing the absence of space and time, which is a condition that doesn't exist in our universe. In that condition, energy cannot exist because there is no time or space for it to exist. E=0x02... E=0. But hey... that's okay because physical reality no longer exists!

You can't just PONTIFICATE a violation of the proven First Law of Thermodynamics. This is not philosophy, it is physics. You must prove that at t=0 there is no energy.

 

[edthecynic]

The speed of light is a RATE of change

Think about what you are saying in relation to what I have stated. If there is no TIME, there can be no "rate of change" in anything. There is no TIME for a rate or change to happen!

Time is the ORDER of change in physics. Think about what physics says instead!!!

The rate of change is the rate of change even a t = 0. The distance traveled at the speed of light at t = 0 is 0.

 

[Boss]

According to the equation e=m times the quantity c squared. c2 is a quantity, not time.

c= speed of light. Yes, it is a quantity measured by time. Tell me how you can quantify speed without time? While you are at it, tell me how mass can occupy no space?

If Energy = Mass times speed of light squared, then Energy requires space and time to exist.

Tell me where I said there is no space, that is YOUR Straw Man. The argument is that time is no longer considered a dimension of space/time. There are only dimensions of space, This is why time travel to the past or future is impossible. A person can travel in space only, and time is a numerical order of their motion.

You desperately need some courses in physics!

Look dimwit, go back and read the thread. Without time and space there is no energy, no mass, no speed of light, no light, no rate of change, no physics or physical reality. These ALL exist as a part of our universe through space and time.

Time travel is certainly NOT theoretically impossible. I read an article yesterday about scientists who have actually sent a photon back in time.

So maybe YOU are the one who needs to brush up on modern physics, and stop clinging to your "flat earth" theories that have been debunked?

 

[edthecynic]

In physics time exists only in terms of motion.

No one is arguing this, ed! We understand time is motion. Time is a perception created by an expanding universe. If there is no expanding universe, there is no time. Without time, you can't have motion and energy cannot exist. Is this too far over your head or something?

there you go again creating YOUR own definition for the very specific terms of physics. That is a no no in physics.

 

[Big Black Dog]

How did the universe get here? Simple answer. It was a prize in a box of Cracker Jacks.

 

[Boss]

The speed of light is a RATE of change

Think about what you are saying in relation to what I have stated. If there is no TIME, there can be no "rate of change" in anything. There is no TIME for a rate or change to happen!

Time is the ORDER of change in physics. Think about what physics says instead!!!

The rate of change is the rate of change even a t = 0. The distance traveled at the speed of light at t = 0 is 0.

I know what physics says. e=mc2. IF M=0 (it has to if space = 0) and C2=0 (has to if T=0) then E=0x02, or ZERO! It doesn't matter how much you use caps on ORDER or CHANGE... Order of change, rate of change... it cannot happen without TIME. Nothing can happen without TIME. It would seem like this is a really simple concept that even a total retard could grasp, but apparently you are having trouble with it.

 

[Boss]

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed so the energy of the universe cannot = 0

It has to equal 0 if there is no space or time. The formula says so.

We exist in a universe which has space and time, so in that universe with space and time, you are correct, nothing can create or destroy energy and it is defined as e=mc2. We're discussing the absence of space and time, which is a condition that doesn't exist in our universe. In that condition, energy cannot exist because there is no time or space for it to exist. E=0x02... E=0. But hey... that's okay because physical reality no longer exists!

You can't just PONTIFICATE a violation of the proven First Law of Thermodynamics. This is not philosophy, it is physics. You must prove that at t=0 there is no energy.

The FLoT doesn't apply if there is no space or time for it to be physical reality. Energy is equal to mass times speed of light squared... if there is no time or space, there is no mass, no light, and no speed. So energy has to equal zero. It's not pontification, it's basic physics.

 

[jesusheknowsme]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

It didn't "get here", it's always been here.
The 1st law of thermo dynamics shows it could not have been created.

 

[Boss]

the argument is that time is no longer considered a dimension of space/time.

since ******* when????

 

[jesusheknowsme]

It has to equal 0 if there is no space or time. The formula says so.

We exist in a universe which has space and time, so in that universe with space and time, you are correct, nothing can create or destroy energy and it is defined as e=mc2. We're discussing the absence of space and time, which is a condition that doesn't exist in our universe. In that condition, energy cannot exist because there is no time or space for it to exist. E=0x02... E=0. But hey... that's okay because physical reality no longer exists!

You can't just PONTIFICATE a violation of the proven First Law of Thermodynamics. This is not philosophy, it is physics. You must prove that at t=0 there is no energy.

The FLoT doesn't apply if there is no space or time for it to be physical reality. Energy is equal to mass times speed of light squared... if there is no time or space, there is no mass, no light, and no speed. So energy has to equal zero. It's not pontification, it's basic physics.

But the energy and mass were all located in one single point in space everything around it for billions and billions and billions of miles was (as far as we know) empty.
Then as the singular point exploded (for reasons we are still learning about) the stuff you understand started to take shape.
Billions of years later here we are, using machines, breathing air, standing on a planet that was once part of a singular object in space of immense mass.

 

[edthecynic]

c= speed of light. Yes, it is a quantity measured by time. Tell me how you can quantify speed without time? While you are at it, tell me how mass can occupy no space?

If Energy = Mass times speed of light squared, then Energy requires space and time to exist.

Tell me where I said there is no space, that is YOUR Straw Man. The argument is that time is no longer considered a dimension of space/time. There are only dimensions of space, This is why time travel to the past or future is impossible. A person can travel in space only, and time is a numerical order of their motion.

You desperately need some courses in physics!

Look dimwit, go back and read the thread. Without time and space there is no energy, no mass, no speed of light, no light, no rate of change, no physics or physical reality. These ALL exist as a part of our universe through space and time.

Time travel is certainly NOT theoretically impossible. I read an article yesterday about scientists who have actually sent a photon back in time.

So maybe YOU are the one who needs to brush up on modern physics, and stop clinging to your "flat earth" theories that have been debunked?

There you go again, PONTIFICATING as if you were God.

Regarding your magic proton, that was only a SIMULATION, you know like an animated cartoon!

You are getting very desperate!!!

 

[edthecynic]

the argument is that time is no longer considered a dimension of space/time.

since ******* when????

Since Einstein.

Albert Einstein and the Fabric of Time

 

[Boss]

It didn't "get here", it's always been here.
The 1st law of thermo dynamics shows it could not have been created.

it's always been here

Then how did it begin motion?
Newton's 1st law of motion shows it WAS put into motion by something.

The 1st law of thermo dynamics shows it could not have been created.

You are applying circular reasoning here. Before the physical was created, the laws of physics did not apply. Without time or space, there is no 1st Law of Thermodynamics.