How come there is no national disgust in the murder of innocents by our Gov?

[impalero]

The people we are dropping the bombs on or targeting are by and large terrorist or supporters of them these people don't wear uniforms that distinguish them from innocent civilians and for the most part operate in countries that don't have a strong central government, police, military, or intelligence units to find them and deal with them. If there is a peaceful non violent way to deal with this problem I would like to hear it for many years we tried the surgical strikes and basically ignored the problem and we saw what that got us on 9-11-2001 I wish this problem did exist but it does.

And if our country broke out in a civil war, and an outside country came in to support one side against the other, those on the other side all fighting back with no uniforms would all be terrorists hiding behind children (their families).

Correct?

 

[OKTexas]

I might be able to be talked into why the Afghanistan war was necessary. This country has historically acted decisively and destructively against pirates/terrorists. And I've reached an age where I think it was necessary to destroy a small band of extremists who wielded political influence there. However I don't think there's a fair argument for why the Iraqi War was necessary. I also think the Afghanistan war was handled so unbelievably poorly by the Bush Administration and there is so much corruption and dubious history behind our middle east adventures that I believe we the American people were severely lied to on nearly a treasonous level. I'd also like to point out under Obama a 25 cent bullet did what a 4 trillion dollar war under Bush could not.

Thanks for the laugh, I really needed that. The over simplification of your statement has to be record for understatement and totally ignoring the facts.

Lets look at the facts that allowed that 25 cent bullet to be fired.
1. Did the soldiers involved in the raid on OBL not come from an established base in Afghanistan? I wonder how that little sucker got there?
2. The equipment used was in Afghanistan, as was the support personnel for that equipment. I wonder how they got there?
3. We lost a helicopter costing many millions of dollars to have the ability to fire that 25 cent bullet, that I think your counting against Bush's 4 trillion dollar war.

So you want to tell me again how your dear leader did all this with a 25 cent bullet?

1. So you're saying the American military isn't able to get a special forces team into any part of the world? It was only because of a nearly decade long pointless war that we were able to execute such an efficient operation?

2. Again, it took a nearly decade long pointless war in Afghanistan to get such a precise strike in Pakistan?

3. Okay, I'll give you the helicopter. Still the entire cost of that operation and training against the entire cost of the Iraqi and Afghanistan war? Especially since your fellow Texan said the man responsible for 9/11 wasn't a priority in his middle east strategy?

Your point is retarded and you said that just because you're bitter as evidenced by your Dear Leader comment. By the way, do you notice only bitter conservatives use that phrase? But still the 4 trillion dollar Bush Wars were sold to us on needing to get Osama and his cohorts and that was accomplished by a 25 cent bullet approved by Obama who bet his Presidential future on it and won.

Yes the US has the technology to project military power anywhere in the world, but a carrier based operation would not have had the advantages a land based operation had. Pakistani early warning systems would have more than likely detected the task force long before they reached their target. Of course they could have use a cruise missile but then there would have been no way to recover OBL's remains.

If you can't admit that having assets in the area contributed to the success of that mission, that's ok, Maobama made a call he had to make, had it gotten out he had the opportunity and didn't take it, would have been more disastrous than failure. Also if you think they didn't continue to look for OBL the whole of Bush's presidency then your delusional.

BTW the "your dear leader" comment appears to be as applicable to you as anyone, evidenced by your statement of what in your opinion Maobama did with a 25 cent bullet. Then you can add your acceptance of Maobamas claims they were only using the best intel available on Benghazi, yet when Bush relied on the intel provided by every major agency in the world on Iraq, that just not sufficient. Hypocrite much?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Veitnam was never about Vietnamese independence. It was about whether the USSR/China influence would expand or US influence would expand.

.....At least, that was....​

....Chuck de Gaulle's excuse.....​

"Ho Chi Minh met with the U.S. operative, Major Patti, and they agreed on joint anti-Japanese actions. The U.S. dropped supplies behind the lines to Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh helped Americans downed behind Japanese lines. The first American advisors helped train, equip and arm the Viet Minh. In 1945, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was formed with Ho Chi Minh as the first President. American planes flew over Hanoi in celebration of the founding. The Vietnamese Declaration of Independence echoed that of the U.S.: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. Understood in the broader sense this means: All people on earth are born equal. Every person has the right to live, to be happy, and free.

Ho Chi Minh asked the Americans to honor their commitment to independence, citing the Atlantic Charter and the U.N. Charter on self-determination. However, by the end of the war, the U.S. government had begun to redirect its foreign policy from the wartime goal of the liberation of all occupied countries and colonies to the postwar anti-communist crusade, which became the Cold War. In France, where communists had led the resistance to the Nazi occupation, American policy supported General Charles de Gaulle and his anti-communist "Free French." De Gaulle aimed to restore the glory of France, which meant the return of all former French colonies. U.S. relations with the Vietnamese turned sour. President Truman refused to answer letters or cables from Ho. Instead, the U.S. began to ship military aid to the French forces in Indochina."

We FUCKED the Vietnamese!!!!​

So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam?

That was none of our business....and, LESS so, FRANCE'S business!!!!!

What....in order to be consistent....you're going to defend Great Britain's ownership of their colonies, HERE??!!!

 

[beagle9]

I really don't get it. I see people bickering day in and day out about the Fiscal Cliff or Sandy Hook or how Obama blows or how Romney blows or what have you, but I almost never see anyone complain about how we murder innocent children and women and men all the time with bombs in other countries. In fact, I see people CONSTANTLY trying to defend the very politicians who charter these horrendous acts of violence.

Can't we all at least agree that an innocent human life is more important than the D or the R next to some guys name on the TV? Let's start promoting freedom for everyone.

So you are another one whom thinks that the world is just a big ole peaceful place of joy, and we are the destroyers of that peace & joy ?

Anytime you are ready, you can leave here with your traiterous attitude... That is my opinion of your post..

 

[impalero]

As a Veteran of the Iraqi war, I am thankful I made it out alive after invading a country that never did any harm to us. If anyone invaded my home or country, they would be getting a belly full of lead.

I was quite the patriotic person then believing I was doing it to serve my country, when it was really all about protecting our oil interests, the petro dollar and making defense contractors richer.

You were in Iraq? Really? What is your MOS? What Service were you in? Where were you in Iraq?

I was on the JFK as a BT, a now defunct rate.

 

[Publius1787]

.....At least, that was....



We FUCKED the Vietnamese!!!!​

So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam?

That was none of our business....and, LESS so, FRANCE'S business!!!!!

What....in order to be consistent....you're going to defend Great Britain's ownership of their colonies, HERE??!!!

I will repost my statement so you can have the proper opportunity to respond. Being that my entire response addressed your argument in the entirity I would figure that you would try to refute the information presented. However, you just abandoned your arguement and made the above statement. Oh, and France origionally went into Vietnam because they were murdering French Ambassadors which is a legitamet act of war. Once again, you dont want Vietnamese self determination. If you did, you wouldn't support Ho Chi Minh, who, never allowed for Vietnamese self determination.



So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam? Thats right, he just assumed power with his Vanguard Commies who murdered anyone who had land or was middle class/higher. When Uncle Ho ripped off our Declaration of Indepedence we all should remember that our Declaration was grounded in the Lockeian principle of self ownership. Comminism disavows self ownership for collective welfare. Ho was wheelin and dealin with the Soviets to supply him with weaponry and after we pulled out the North didnt give a rats ass about self determination! You see, they had promised the South as well as the NLF that they would be able to set up a provisional government and then negotiate a unification. The Northern unelected commies, however, just took the place over and there has not been a self determination in the History of "independent" Vietnam. Welcom to reality my friend!

And after all of that they helped Pol Pot come to power who killed 1/4th of the Cambodian people.

 

[JakeStarkey]

None of your business, Pubic.

Thank you for your service, impalero.

As a Veteran of the Iraqi war, I am thankful I made it out alive after invading a country that never did any harm to us. If anyone invaded my home or country, they would be getting a belly full of lead.

I was quite the patriotic person then believing I was doing it to serve my country, when it was really all about protecting our oil interests, the petro dollar and making defense contractors richer.

You were in Iraq? Really? What is your MOS? What Service were you in? Where were you in Iraq?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It's brilliant how this war worked out for the neo-conservatives and those that profit from war in this country. We were exiting a golden age of beautiful peace and prosperity since the end of the Cold War and America in some views was probably starting to get soft. Also with the type of enemy that we've been cultivated to believe in this is a war that could potentially last forever unlike the Russians who stopped being the boogeyman when they run out of money.

Although 90% of Afghanistans have never heard of the 9/11 tragedy and have no idea why Americans are at war in their lands. To them we're just another foreign face in a centuries' old progression of invaders.

Being that opium is illegal, the countries that produce it have a near monopoly. Afghanistan is that monopoly.

Yeah......funny how.....

....that worked-OUT!!

​

 

[Publius1787]

As a Veteran of the Iraqi war, I am thankful I made it out alive after invading a country that never did any harm to us. If anyone invaded my home or country, they would be getting a belly full of lead.

I was quite the patriotic person then believing I was doing it to serve my country, when it was really all about protecting our oil interests, the petro dollar and making defense contractors richer.

You were in Iraq? Really? What is your MOS? What Service were you in? Where were you in Iraq?

I was on the JFK as a BT, a now defunct rate.

You were a Boiler Technician on a Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier? Did you ever set foot in Iraq? Did you ever have a round shot over your head? I did three combat patrols a day in the Al Anbar Provence and you’re thanking your lucky stars that you got out alive while claiming the mantle of knowledgeable combat veteran? Get the hell out of here you freaking POG! Quit using your veteran’s status on a boat to make definitive deductions of the real Iraq I saw with my own eyes every day for a year in the most violent provence in the country, of which, we sucessfully pacified with the help of the local Iraqis!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, for crying out loud, pubic poagybait

Talk to Tammy Duckworth and she will tell you to flip off

What a disgrace you are to the flag, pubic

You were in Iraq? Really? What is your MOS? What Service were you in? Where were you in Iraq?

I was on the JFK as a BT, a now defunct rate.

You were a Boiler Technician on a Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier? Did you ever set foot in Iraq? Did you ever have a round shot over your head? I did three combat patrols a day in the Al Anbar Provence and you’re thanking your lucky stars that you got out alive while claiming the mantle of knowledgeable combat veteran? Get the hell out of here you freaking POG! Quit using your veteran’s status on a boat to make definitive deductions of the real Iraq I saw with my own eyes in the most violent provence in the country, of which, we sucessfully pacified with the help of the local Iraqis!

 

[impalero]

So you are another one whom thinks that the world is just a big ole peaceful place of joy, and we are the destroyers of that peace & joy ?

Anytime you are ready, you can leave here with your traiterous attitude... That is my opinion of your post..

If I have learned anything, those that support our current wars are the true traitors of this country, going against the constitutional wishes of our founding fathers.

I believe our founding fathers had it right when they argued for peace and commerce between nations, and against entangling political and military alliances. In other words, noninterventionism.

Noninterventionism is not isolationism. Nonintervention simply means America does not interfere militarily, financially, or covertly in the internal affairs of other nations. It does not mean that we isolate ourselves; on the contrary, our founders advocated open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations.

Thomas Jefferson summed up the noninterventionist foreign policy position perfectly in his 1801 inaugural address: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." Washington similarly urged that we must, "Act for ourselves and not for others," by forming an "American character wholly free of foreign attachments."

How is it my responsibility to pay for others security around the world. Is that not their responsibility? Why are tax dollars stolen for me for this purpose as well as to make others richer, which also creates a Bigger Government?

 

[Publius1787]

None of your business, Pubic.

Thank you for your service, impalero.

As a Veteran of the Iraqi war, I am thankful I made it out alive after invading a country that never did any harm to us. If anyone invaded my home or country, they would be getting a belly full of lead.

I was quite the patriotic person then believing I was doing it to serve my country, when it was really all about protecting our oil interests, the petro dollar and making defense contractors richer.

You were in Iraq? Really? What is your MOS? What Service were you in? Where were you in Iraq?

If you throw your bonafides out you open yourself to scrutiny. Having served in Iraq myself as an infantryman in the United States Marine Corps I am happy to review his credentials. As it turns out he was on a ship.

 

[impalero]

None of your business, Pubic.

Thank you for your service, impalero.

You were in Iraq? Really? What is your MOS? What Service were you in? Where were you in Iraq?

If you throw your bonafides out you open yourself to scrutiny. Having served in Iraq myself as an infantryman in the United States Marine Corps I am happy to review his credentials. As it turns out he was on a ship.

So what? I was still part of the military force launching planes off the ship that were launching attacks on Iraq.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam?

That was none of our business....and, LESS so, FRANCE'S business!!!!!

What....in order to be consistent....you're going to defend Great Britain's ownership of their colonies, HERE??!!!

I will repost my statement so you can have the proper opportunity to respond. Being that my entire response addressed your argument in the entirity I would figure that you would try to refute the information presented. However, you just abandoned your arguement and made the above statement.

Since you're running-around-in-circles, anyhow, go ahead and....

....defend the Vichy French....

....in Vietnam.​

 

[Publius1787]

Oh, for crying out loud, pubic poagybait

Talk to Tammy Duckworth and she will tell you to flip off

What a disgrace you are to the flag, pubic

I was on the JFK as a BT, a now defunct rate.

You were a Boiler Technician on a Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier? Did you ever set foot in Iraq? Did you ever have a round shot over your head? I did three combat patrols a day in the Al Anbar Provence and you’re thanking your lucky stars that you got out alive while claiming the mantle of knowledgeable combat veteran? Get the hell out of here you freaking POG! Quit using your veteran’s status on a boat to make definitive deductions of the real Iraq I saw with my own eyes in the most violent provence in the country, of which, we sucessfully pacified with the help of the local Iraqis!

Why don't you attack the rationality of my argument? Military personnel are not above criticism by virtue of their service and if they are faking the funk, as a combat veteran myself, I am happy to call them on it!

 

[Publius1787]

That was none of our business....and, LESS so, FRANCE'S business!!!!!

What....in order to be consistent....you're going to defend Great Britain's ownership of their colonies, HERE??!!!

I will repost my statement so you can have the proper opportunity to respond. Being that my entire response addressed your argument in the entirity I would figure that you would try to refute the information presented. However, you just abandoned your arguement and made the above statement.

Since you're running-around-in-circles, anyhow, go ahead and....

....defend the Vichy French....

....in Vietnam.​

You abandoned your argument. I addressed you line by line on your own merits no less! You refused to follow up not me.

 

[beagle9]

So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam?

That was none of our business....and, LESS so, FRANCE'S business!!!!!

What....in order to be consistent....you're going to defend Great Britain's ownership of their colonies, HERE??!!!

I will repost my statement so you can have the proper opportunity to respond. Being that my entire response addressed your argument in the entirity I would figure that you would try to refute the information presented. However, you just abandoned your arguement and made the above statement. Oh, and France origionally went into Vietnam because they were murdering French Ambassadors which is a legitamet act of war. Once again, you dont want Vietnamese self determination. If you did, you wouldn't support Ho Chi Minh, who, never allowed for Vietnamese self determination.



So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam? Thats right, he just assumed power with his Vanguard Commies who murdered anyone who had land or was middle class/higher. When Uncle Ho ripped off our Declaration of Indepedence we all should remember that our Declaration was grounded in the Lockeian principle of self ownership. Comminism disavows self ownership for collective welfare. Ho was wheelin and dealin with the Soviets to supply him with weaponry and after we pulled out the North didnt give a rats ass about self determination! You see, they had promised the South as well as the NLF that they would be able to set up a provisional government and then negotiate a unification. The Northern unelected commies, however, just took the place over and there has not been a self determination in the History of "independent" Vietnam. Welcom to reality my friend!

And after all of that they helped Pol Pot come to power who killed 1/4th of the Cambodian people.

It could be that we have more and more traitors it seems in our midst these days, and this is being found more and more in America big time as we move forward, and they aren't ashamed to raise their opinions loud and proud these days, even if their opinions are wrong and mis-guided as they speak them..

Note - If we wouldn't have had the liberal media involved in our wars/conflicts as was being experienced by us back in the day, and even in the ones we have now, the outcomes would have been a whole lot different back then as well as these days, and this I seriously believe, but the manipulation of the news reports and the extreme liberal bias, helped to kill our efforts in these conflicts back then, and it is still working to do it now also. Yes there were bad actors and actions on some soldiers and/or some politicians parts of course, but many have now died for a cause for which they believed in, and had fought bravely for in these conflicts, because they knew the truth and fought for that truth upon the ground in which ((with their own thinking minds)) had believed in, but the undermining of these soldiers & this country by these demon spawns in this nation, is a sore spot that will take many years still to overcome, and it has underminded our nation's security and beliefs for years to come I think, but that is the whole object or purpose of it all now isn't it (to undermine this nation)?

 

[Publius1787]

None of your business, Pubic.

Thank you for your service, impalero.

If you throw your bonafides out you open yourself to scrutiny. Having served in Iraq myself as an infantryman in the United States Marine Corps I am happy to review his credentials. As it turns out he was on a ship.

So what? I was still part of the military force launching planes off the ship that were launching attacks on Iraq.

See below

As a Veteran of the Iraqi war, I am thankful I made it out alive after invading a country that never did any harm to us. If anyone invaded my home or country, they would be getting a belly full of lead.

I was quite the patriotic person then believing I was doing it to serve my country, when it was really all about protecting our oil interests, the petro dollar and making defense contractors richer.

I lived with Iraqis, I spoke with Iraqis, I fought with Iraqis, and ate with Iraqis. What do you know of our operations in Iraq? How dare you speak as if you know what the hell was going on. If you had seen what the Muj were doing to the Iraqi people in Ar Ramadi and Falluja you would have never made such a stupid statement!

 

[freedombecki]

I really don't get it. I see people bickering day in and day out about the Fiscal Cliff or Sandy Hook or how Obama blows or how Romney blows or what have you, but I almost never see anyone complain about how we murder innocent children and women and men all the time with bombs in other countries. In fact, I see people CONSTANTLY trying to defend the very politicians who charter these horrendous acts of violence.

Can't we all at least agree that an innocent human life is more important than the D or the R next to some guys name on the TV? Let's start promoting freedom for everyone.

Violence? Innocent human life?
Each tower averaged a daily traffic of 50-90,000 people daily
Not to mention the day care centers in the building
Women and children? Who cared for us?
Police and Firemen, that's who.
Hundreds of them gave their lives, insuring that
every level had been completely evacuated.
​

[ame=http://youtu.be/1lKZqqSI9-s]September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack - YouTube[/ame]
​

 

[Publius1787]

That was none of our business....and, LESS so, FRANCE'S business!!!!!

What....in order to be consistent....you're going to defend Great Britain's ownership of their colonies, HERE??!!!

I will repost my statement so you can have the proper opportunity to respond. Being that my entire response addressed your argument in the entirity I would figure that you would try to refute the information presented. However, you just abandoned your arguement and made the above statement. Oh, and France origionally went into Vietnam because they were murdering French Ambassadors which is a legitamet act of war. Once again, you dont want Vietnamese self determination. If you did, you wouldn't support Ho Chi Minh, who, never allowed for Vietnamese self determination.



So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam? Thats right, he just assumed power with his Vanguard Commies who murdered anyone who had land or was middle class/higher. When Uncle Ho ripped off our Declaration of Indepedence we all should remember that our Declaration was grounded in the Lockeian principle of self ownership. Comminism disavows self ownership for collective welfare. Ho was wheelin and dealin with the Soviets to supply him with weaponry and after we pulled out the North didnt give a rats ass about self determination! You see, they had promised the South as well as the NLF that they would be able to set up a provisional government and then negotiate a unification. The Northern unelected commies, however, just took the place over and there has not been a self determination in the History of "independent" Vietnam. Welcom to reality my friend!

And after all of that they helped Pol Pot come to power who killed 1/4th of the Cambodian people.

It could be that we have more and more traitors it seems in our midst these days, and this is being found more and more in America big time as we move forward, and they aren't ashamed to raise their opinions loud and proud these days, even if their opinions are wrong and mis-guided as they speak them..

Note - If we wouldn't have had the liberal media involved in our wars/conflicts as was being experienced by us back in the day, and even in the ones we have now, the outcomes would have been a whole lot different back then as well as these days, and this I seriously believe, but the manipulation of the news reports and the extreme liberal bias, helped to killed our efforts in these conflicts back then, and it is still working to do it now also. Yes there were bad actors and actions on some soldiers and/or some politicians parts of course, but many have now died for a cause for which they believed in, and had fought bravely for in these conflicts, because they knew the truth and fought for that truth upon the ground in which ((with their own thinking minds)) had believed in, but the undermining of these soldiers & this country by these demon spawns in this nation, is a sore spot that will take many years still to overcome, and has underminded our nation's security and beliefs for years to come I think, but that is the whole object or purpose of it all now isn't it (to undermine this nation)?

Yes this addresses none of what I posted, however, the medias willful ignorance did help JFK and LBJ escalate the war without proper media attention until it was too late.