how can someone be against school vouchers?

[oreo]

oreo?

To clarify--Barack Obama is AGAINST school vouchers for smart kids that are born to poor parents--of getting them out of lousy schools to educate them.

Or didn't you know that?

A smart kid does fine in a public school. It is the less gifted individuals who need the discipline of a private school. Sorry I misunderstood your point lol

DEPENDING ON WHAT PUBLIC SCHOOL THEY ARE IN--right?---

 

[NYcarbineer]

Either I am missing someting or you misread my posts. I don't want any public schools at all, privatize them all and let the government pay for the vouchers for kids who cannot afford the cost of schooling plus supplies/uniform/etc if necessary.

I am not surprised that you don't want public schools.

I do. I believe they serve a valuable function, and in this instance, the needs of the many (society) outweigh the needs of the few.

Pro bono publico.

i want guarenteed school for all, i just wnat private business to do it for a couple reasons

1) public schools suck
2) it costs too much and could be done much less with private investors/schools
3) in my plan the governement only pays for the tutition of those who can't afford school isntead of entire school systems

You people want the government with its big fat checkbook turned loose on the private sector school business?

We already have something similar. It's called college. And we all know what a BARGAIN college is.

Use your heads.

 

[xsited1]

how can someone be against school vouchers?

I am. I spend good money to send my kids to private schools. I don't want a bunch of losers from public schools mucking it up.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Give everyone with schoolkids a 4 figure voucher for tuition to private school and you'll see private school tuitions go through the roof.

And the main screw - ee in that deal? The taxpayers.

 

[oreo]

how can someone be against school vouchers?

I am. I spend good money to send my kids to private schools. I don't want a bunch of losers from public schools mucking it up.

Well--ya dumb ass--school vouchers have nothing to do with "private paid for schools."

School vouchers had everthing to do with transferring a student in public schools to another public school--"out of the poor district" to students & parents who did not want their intelligent-motivated elementary kids--STUCK in the often violent school--aka the growing up day care center.

da--duh--da--duh--da--duh.


HEY--so for all you liberal dumb-asse's out there, along with the poor in this country that have kids--whom want a better education for their kids--YOU FREAKING VOTED FOR THE WRONG GUY.

John McCain was for this--YOUR hero Barack Obama was against it-- You should have voted for the old white pasty guy.

 

[SwingVoter]

I don't see why the government (even state govs) need to run grammar & high schools.

and I don't see why school teachers need to join unions

they don't work in sweatshops, and their shareholders are public taxpayers

by joining unions, they decide to serve themselves rather than serve the public

so no surprise who screams the loudest when a poor kid from the hood gets a voucher to go to a better school

 

[sboyle24]

All right throw out the constitution then. It's useless platitude.

Your disparage of my argument is senseless. Clever analogy but it doesn't make you any more correct. The constitution is the design for this country. It states in the intro the commonwealth of the people is a top priority. It doesn't matter if your an elitist who cares very little for the lower class, the country is not built for you, it is built for everyone. Sometimes people tend to focus on minor details too much and forget the big picture. This being one example.

Either way our opinions and our reasons are polar opposites and I don't see any kind of in between. No sense in arguing about something we aren't going to change our opinion about. We both win. Plus, you got the screen name "Dude." That is an epic win in itself.

Riiiiight.

You invoke the preamble of the Constitution, fail to point to any Article 1 power therein which authorizes the feds to involve themselves in education, I call your bullshit, which subsequently makes me "an elitist who cares very little for the lower class".

I don't know how I missed the obvious connections.

It doesn't have to specify if it is done for the good of the common wealth. That's my point. Strict interpretation is foolish.

 

[SwingVoter]

And the main screw - ee in that deal? The taxpayers.

yes, taxpayers are getting a raw deal in places like NYC, where it is literally impossible to fire a teacher unless they commit a felony, and even then they'll file a grievance with the union

not only do taxpayers get a raw deal with all the bad union teachers kept on the payroll, the kids aren't exactly getting a great education, funny how their needs are not brought up by the self-serving unions and their supporters

 

[oreo]

And the main screw - ee in that deal? The taxpayers.

yes, taxpayers are getting a raw deal in places like NYC, where it is literally impossible to fire a teacher unless they commit a felony, and even then they'll file a grievance with the union

not only do taxpayers get a raw deal with all the bad union teachers kept on the payroll, the kids aren't exactly getting a great education, funny how their needs are not brought up by the self-serving unions and their supporters

That's the irony--MILLIONS came out to vote for Barack Obama--who was absolutely against school vouchers, who basically campaigned on keeping the youngsters in horrible failing schools because of where their parents lived & where they could afford to live.

UPPS--I thought Barack Obama was for the advancement of POOR PEOPLE-----

Yet--these DUMB-ASSES keep voting for liberals--:

 

[xsited1]

how can someone be against school vouchers?

I am. I spend good money to send my kids to private schools. I don't want a bunch of losers from public schools mucking it up.

Well--ya dumb ass--school vouchers have nothing to do with "private paid for schools."

School vouchers had everthing to do with transferring a student in public schools to another public school--"out of the poor district" to students & parents who did not want their intelligent-motivated elementary kids--STUCK in the often violent school--aka the growing up day care center.

da--duh--da--duh--da--duh.


HEY--so for all you liberal dumb-asse's out there, along with the poor in this country that have kids--whom want a better education for their kids--YOU FREAKING VOTED FOR THE WRONG GUY.

John McCain was for this--YOUR hero Barack Obama was against it-- You should have voted for the old white pasty guy.

 

[uscitizen]

I can't wait for the Chinese and Venezualians to come here and open charter schools.
They can lobby for this thru their coporations unlimited political donations.

I think they are opening the Rush LImbaugh charter school in Florida.

 

[blu]

I can't wait for the Chinese and Venezualians to come here and open charter schools.
They can lobby for this thru their coporations unlimited political donations.

I think they are opening the Rush LImbaugh charter school in Florida.

you mean unlimited ads that will be interesting to see. will they broadcast in English?

 

[uscitizen]

I can't wait for the Chinese and Venezualians to come here and open charter schools.
They can lobby for this thru their coporations unlimited political donations.

I think they are opening the Rush LImbaugh charter school in Florida.

you mean unlimited ads that will be interesting to see. will they broadcast in English?

Of course they will be broadcast in english. And likely on Fox as well. There is money to be made folks.

 

[Oddball]

All right throw out the constitution then. It's useless platitude.

Your disparage of my argument is senseless. Clever analogy but it doesn't make you any more correct. The constitution is the design for this country. It states in the intro the commonwealth of the people is a top priority. It doesn't matter if your an elitist who cares very little for the lower class, the country is not built for you, it is built for everyone. Sometimes people tend to focus on minor details too much and forget the big picture. This being one example.

Either way our opinions and our reasons are polar opposites and I don't see any kind of in between. No sense in arguing about something we aren't going to change our opinion about. We both win. Plus, you got the screen name "Dude." That is an epic win in itself.

Riiiiight.

You invoke the preamble of the Constitution, fail to point to any Article 1 power therein which authorizes the feds to involve themselves in education, I call your bullshit, which subsequently makes me "an elitist who cares very little for the lower class".

I don't know how I missed the obvious connections.

It doesn't have to specify if it is done for the good of the common wealth. That's my point. Strict interpretation is foolish.

So, you can't point to any specific power granted to the feds to run schools.

I thought not.

 

[Toronado3800]

I'm pretty happy w/o vouchers. Force folks to take part in their local school districts instead of shopping around reaping the benefits of others then bailing.

 

[FA_Q2]

Sarah G
Yes and I do have a problem with that. If you want to send your child to a Christian school, pay for it yourself. That's "you" in a general sense.

Why? Why should I have to pay any less to send my child to an atheist school than the person down the street does to send their child to a catholic school? There is no reason a religious school should be exempt from a voucher program. A school is a school weather or not you have an extra religious class or not. As long as it is capable of meeting education requirements it should be allowed to take any vouchers allowed to a non religious equivalent.

Dude
Make it the responsibility of the state and communities to find ways to educate the indigent.

Turning schooling into a welfare program for the middle class has proven to be a bust and it's high time to junk the current top-down model.

Bullshit. We are where we are today because we have made it an issue to educate EVERYONE. We are not slipping because we have educated people, we are slipping because others are getting it and have started to educate their people MORE.

blu
or private schools with gov backed vouchers for people that can't afford it. the dept of education controlled schools are a joke and waste of time for people attending them

Also bullshit. SOME public schools fall into this and others do not. There are some very good public schools, you just have to find them.

sboyle
A smart kid does fine in a public school. It is the less gifted individuals who need the discipline of a private school. Sorry I misunderstood your point lol

WTF? The problem is you have a different definition of ‘fine.’ Fine to me does NOT mean they managed to get a diploma with a decent GPA. Fine is measured in the knowledge gained by the student and the challenges that were presented and overcome by the same. Intelligent individuals get nothing from a bad school.

The thing is there are 2 ways to approach the voucher issue. There is the transfer of students and the money that they bring from one public school to another OR the transfer of the same to ANY school.

The first is an absolute no brainer. There is absolutely NO reason that a parent should not be able to take their child from a crap public school and move them to a better public school as long as they are able to get the there. This accomplishes two major game changes. For one, parent have a much greater ability to influence a schools teaching ability as students will no longer be forced to pay for a local school whether or not the curriculum is sufficient. If you are a crap school then you will lose students and the money those students get for their education will be transferred to a school that IS able to give them a real education. This in of itself is a HUGE point. Of course teachers unions are completely against this as it would then require that teaches actually do their job.

Another benefit is parents will have greater control and interest where their children are attending school. While this is similar to the above point, it is a major plus. This give parents much more power and options over their children’s educational opportunities and has virtually no ramifications. I live in a not so great school district and without a voucher system I do not have the ability to send my child to an institution he needs to challenge his intelligence. It is a travesty that there are intelligent, hardworking individuals wasted because of a broken system and union interests.

The latter option I would also like to see implemented. I see no reason that you should not be able to move those funds from a public school over to a private equivalent. I do not agree that the public schools should be eliminated though. If private industry is able to compete and puts them out of business then that is another matter altogether but I doubt that will ever happen. Public school would still be ‘free’ and able to operate on a smaller budget as there are no other constituents to please and will have some benefits from being part of the state.

 

[FA_Q2]

Toronado3800
I'm pretty happy w/o vouchers. Force folks to take part in their local school districts instead of shopping around reaping the benefits of others then bailing.

More like force people to attend AND support a failing school whether or not it is addressing the issues or just falling into ruin.

 

[ScottBernard]

I can't believe I read four pages of postings before someone finally brought up the teachers' unions.
You thought healthcare reform is a battle? It would be nothing compared to a fight for education reform.
What are they so afraid of when it comes to giving the power of choice?

A long time ago I attended one of those career training institutes to learn the trade of electronics. Back in high school I took an electronics course also. The difference between the two was astronomical. The career training was like drinking from a mathematical firehose; we were learning all the formulas and doing all kinds of computations on our scientific calculators learning the engineering math.
My high school experience consisted of this: show up, take attendance, mill around, then go off to a work bench and put together an AC/DC adaptor from a kit. Maybe learn a few schematics.
Foolishly, I thought getting a college degree was better than getting solid career training in a technological trade. Yep, I wanted all those liberal arts studies to be considered educated. Idiot me. So off I went to junior college(pulling my hand down my face).
My point is, I just couldn't believe the difference. Unbelievable. Public education is all about the low-middle. It will always be in my opinion.

 

[Modbert]

Vouchers would fail for many reasons. Thinking long-term though, if everyone wants to send their kids to the same school, what do you think is going to happen to that one school and the other ones?

 

[sboyle24]

Obviously FA_Q2 knows more about the subject than I and most people do. Maybe I went to a better school than most; it was rank third in the state of Washington academically when I graduated (including private schools). I suppose my opinion on the matter is much less valid in that respect.