CDZ How can ISIS be beaten ?

[Tommy Tainant]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

 

[Militants]

It are ready defeated in Iraq by US, France and Germany support to Iraq and Kurdistan with Air Force strikes then Kurdistan and Iraq guerilla Armed have punishment IS. 60% of enemy troops killed about 1 year war.

 

[aaronleland]

I'm not trying to marginalize the terror they have already spread, but I believe that in a sense they have already been beaten. It will probably still be years before they collapse, and even then there will be holdouts, as happens with any large movement, but their expansion seems to have been brought to a halt. The threat they posed flew under the radar of the international community for a few months, which allowed them to quickly take control of large swaths of land in Iraq and Syria. Now they are the focus of a large international coalition to take them out. With the locals doing the ground fighting, and the most powerful militaries in the world bombing them daily they can only sustain their "caliphate" for so long.

 

[Militants]

I hope that's Militia Rebels win 50 or 100 precent of Syria land scape. Maybe Assad 50 precent of Syria. IS gonna not take home victory in Syria when Russia bombs there with two of four or five pieces with nuclears and Spetsnaz(are russian special forces how they will attack's in northern Norway, Gotland and Åland maybe northern Sweden to there swedish reserve have Army forces and with 33,000 Spetsnaz force ho are all special forces by Spetsnaz not so cool) 100 precent are victory over Assad and maybe Russia and with American or British or Swedish troops for Militia Rebels cover.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I'm not trying to marginalize the terror they have already spread, but I believe that in a sense they have already been beaten. It will probably still be years before they collapse, and even then there will be holdouts, as happens with any large movement, but their expansion seems to have been brought to a halt. The threat they posed flew under the radar of the international community for a few months, which allowed them to quickly take control of large swaths of land in Iraq and Syria. Now they are the focus of a large international coalition to take them out. With the locals doing the ground fighting, and the most powerful militaries in the world bombing them daily they can only sustain their "caliphate" for so long.

I think that this type of thing can only survive in an undercover existence. They are physically present in a couple of failed states but that was only a temporary thing.
The Paris bombers came from Belgium though. It suggests that there is some strange attraction to this type of death cult. How do we combat this ?

 

[Militants]

We bomb with US and UK then US or Sweden goes for Air Force or Army troops in Syrian war to help Militia rebels to win 100 precent or 50-50 in land scape. IS will bee destroy by Russia and Assad militants.

 

[Fishlore]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

It is instructive to remember what ISIS is not. ISIS is not the Red Army. ISIS is not the James Gang, although there is a certain parallel because ISIS too has sprung from the chaos of a civil war. ISIS is an orgnization held together by a synthesis of religious belief and nationalism. Similar unifying motivation can be found in our own back yard from Ireland to Poland and places in between.

ISIS is an enemy of the West because ISIS sees the west as an intrusive, exploitative power which threatens Arab religion, society and culture. As Rand Paul pointed out, they fight us because we are over there. In more tactical terms, camels are poor swimmers.

ISIS is hardly a treat to modern civilization, although it is the current brand name of Sunni nationalism which will fight any infidel force that attempts to control the Arab homeland. ISIS can't be beaten in the sense that Napoleon beat Austria. ISIS is a brand, al Qaeda is a brand, the Muslim Brotherhood is a brand. Each of these brands has a pocketful of associated labels and affiliates. Their internal differences don't effect their fundamental opposition to infidel invaders.

We experienced a somewhat similar opposition from the Plains Indians of the American West in the 19th century. The big difference: there are 400 million Arabs supported by a billion Muslims around the world, living in a huge area rich in oil resourses and modern technology, and united by a sophisticated religious culture that is a thousand years old. The Arabs are never going to give up. They are never going to go away.

The days of Western imperialism are drawing to a close. America is not the boss of Arabia. Gunboat diplomacy produces nothing but 9/11 responses. We have much to offer Arabs who wish cooperation for mutual profit, but first we have to get the hell out of their front yard.

 

[Militants]

America attack when they feel threatened if I understand the situation correctly.

 

[320 Years of History]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

I've posted my solution approach for how to defeat ISIS here.

 

[320 Years of History]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

It is instructive to remember what ISIS is not. ISIS is not the Red Army. ISIS is not the James Gang, although there is a certain parallel because ISIS too has sprung from the chaos of a civil war. ISIS is an orgnization held together by a synthesis of religious belief and nationalism. Similar unifying motivation can be found in our own back yard from Ireland to Poland and places in between.

ISIS is an enemy of the West because ISIS sees the west as an intrusive, exploitative power which threatens Arab religion, society and culture. As Rand Paul pointed out, they fight us because we are over there. In more tactical terms, camels are poor swimmers.

ISIS is hardly a treat to modern civilization, although it is the current brand name of Sunni nationalism which will fight any infidel force that attempts to control the Arab homeland. ISIS can't be beaten in the sense that Napoleon beat Austria. ISIS is a brand, al Qaeda is a brand, the Muslim Brotherhood is a brand. Each of these brands has a pocketful of associated labels and affiliates. Their internal differences don't effect their fundamental opposition to infidel invaders.

We experienced a somewhat similar opposition from the Plains Indians of the American West in the 19th century. The big difference: there are 400 million Arabs supported by a billion Muslims around the world, living in a huge area rich in oil resourses and modern technology, and united by a sophisticated religious culture that is a thousand years old. The Arabs are never going to give up. They are never going to go away.

The days of Western imperialism are drawing to a close. America is not the boss of Arabia. Gunboat diplomacy produces nothing but 9/11 responses. We have much to offer Arabs who wish cooperation for mutual profit, but first we have to get the hell out of their front yard.

Red:
I think the marketing perspective you've presented is insightful. It may be that ISIS can be defeated using B School "brand defeating" principles. I don't know, and I don't know if it can be done quickly enough. That's not to say what the timeline need be, only that I don't know if those tactics will be effective in a sufficiently timely manner.

Blue:
Are you suggesting that the same branding ideas applied to that contretemps' and its combatants? What strike you as the critical (non-circumstantial) similarities? I'm sure there must be some similarities between the Plains Indians of the 19th century and ISIS' adherents, and the two situations pertaining to the, but I'm not sure they inform us about how to defeat ISIS.

Pink:
I'm not of a mind that we need to vacate their "front yard." I think what we needed to do, and as ISIS have made clear from their perspective the time to do it has passed, was, while being in their "front yard," not behaving with impunity and as though it were our "front yard." If there were signs that meaningful factions within ISIS were amendable to compromise, I'd think that approach might still work, but all I've seen from ISIS' public statements is that no compromise is acceptable to them.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You don't have a President who refuses to bomb their oil fields and cut off their source of income.

You don't have a President who calls off a bombing run of an ISIS headquarters because a civilian is nearby.

You don't have a President who says the definition of Islam is peace and give a distorted history lesson on the Crusades.

You don't have a President Who is afraid to humiliate ISIS to prevent others from wanting to join.

You don't have a President who says climate change is our greatest threat.

You don't have a President who thinks closing Gitmo will make them like us.

You don't have a President who abondons regions of the world to let ISIS take power.

 

[Militants]

Libya is last chanc for IS to win in one country at least.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

I've posted my solution approach for how to defeat ISIS here.

Thanks for that. I am not convinced that the slaughter of innocent children would bring an end to anything. In actual fact it would make the situation worse.

 

[Sunni Man]

ISIS is just a homegrown nationalist / religious response to US and European imperialism in the Middle East.

Even if ISIS was 100% eradicated from the face of the earth. There would be another group with the same goals and agenda surface to continue the fight.

People long to be free to determine their own destiny. Which is why this problem will never cease until the western powers pull out of the Middle East. .....

 

[oldsoul]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

While I have no specific solutions, I do know that it MUST start at the top. I do not mean the top of ISIS, they are but a symptom of the larger problem. One would have to start at the "top" of the Islamic "hierarchy". I know, I know, the Muslim religion and the Islamic faith are not structured the same as other religions in the way sense that they have no "supreme leader". I just don't know how else to put it. I guess it would be more on a local/regional/mosque level. If you cut off the head (the radical anit-western clerics) the snake (radical anti-western militants) will soon die (or pass into non-factor status).

 

[320 Years of History]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

I've posted my solution approach for how to defeat ISIS here.

Thanks for that. I am not convinced that the slaughter of innocent children would bring an end to anything. In actual fact it would make the situation worse.

Well, that's a possible outcome. I don't know how it would be a plausible one assuming all or nearly all ISIS and ISIS sympathizers are killed.

In the course of achieving the end I've noted, by the means I've noted, I would not be surprised to find something might be made worse. I suspect, however, that if the end I've identified is prosecuted successfully and efficiently, ISIS will too come to an end and that will be that. Goal achieved and no "situation" pertaining to them will afterwards exist; thus that situation, the ISIS situation, certainly won't be worse.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

I've posted my solution approach for how to defeat ISIS here.

Thanks for that. I am not convinced that the slaughter of innocent children would bring an end to anything. In actual fact it would make the situation worse.

Well, that's a possible outcome. I don't know how it would be a plausible one assuming all or nearly all ISIS and ISIS sympathizers are killed.

In the course of achieving the end I've noted, by the means I've noted, I would not be surprised to find something might be made worse. I suspect, however, that if the end I've identified is prosecuted successfully and efficiently, ISIS will too come to an end and that will be that. Goal achieved and no "situation" pertaining to them will afterwards exist; thus that situation, the ISIS situation, certainly won't be worse.

The issue is that you would be creating martyrs to inspire another generation. To actually believe that killing thousands of children is any sort of solution is rather chilling.

 

[Tehon]

Good luck killing an ideology with bullets. Especially one that has proven useful to Western hegemons.

 

[320 Years of History]

I put this topic on this forum for a reason so play nice.

ISIS is a threat to modern civilisation. How can it be beaten ?

I've posted my solution approach for how to defeat ISIS here.

Thanks for that. I am not convinced that the slaughter of innocent children would bring an end to anything. In actual fact it would make the situation worse.

Well, that's a possible outcome. I don't know how it would be a plausible one assuming all or nearly all ISIS and ISIS sympathizers are killed.

In the course of achieving the end I've noted, by the means I've noted, I would not be surprised to find something might be made worse. I suspect, however, that if the end I've identified is prosecuted successfully and efficiently, ISIS will too come to an end and that will be that. Goal achieved and no "situation" pertaining to them will afterwards exist; thus that situation, the ISIS situation, certainly won't be worse.

The issue is that you would be creating martyrs to inspire another generation. To actually believe that killing thousands of children is any sort of solution is rather chilling.

Assuming one destroys all or nearly all ISIS members and their sympathizers means of furthering their cause, whom would be around to rally behind, and actually do so to a meaningful extent, those would be martyrs? If one disbelieves that it's possible to eradicate via a protracted pogrom ISIS' members and means of producing more, sure, there may be folks around to rally to the cheer of said martyrs. If, on the other hand, one does accomplish the outcome I proposed, there'll be little to do other than mop up the "stragglers," and that will be far less involved and incur far fewer consequences than the current course of action.

Is my proposal largely inhumane? Yes. Do I see any other viable alternative to ensuring we absolutely overcome ISIS? No, because ISIS have made it very clear that they see the matter as one of theirs or our survival. Given that's how they see the matter and that they've indicated no willingness, not one iota, to see it any other way, so be it. I'm okay with seeking to resolve the matter binarily.

To people who push me into a corner like that, I have one response: one should have been more careful of what one requested for now I will give it to you. Anyone can say "give me liberty or give me death," but in uttering that phrase (or its equivalent), one must necessarily have accepted that death is among the possible outcomes. ISIS have made that call; left to me, death would be the outcome they obtain.

 

[320 Years of History]

Good luck killing an ideology with bullets. Especially one that has proven useful to Western hegemons.

??? Do you see ISIS as a Western hegemon? I don't.