How big was Jerusalem at the time of Jesus?

[ding]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are elements of history woven in. I believe what you are trying to say is that they are loose historical accounts. For example, George Washington didn't actually chop down a cherry tree, but he did exist and did many great things. It would be unusual if ancient historical accounts did not weave legends, allegory, fables and myth into their accounts. Such that it made them more memorable and easier to pass down orally. It in no way diminishes the overarching message and history of the account.

 

[surada]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

 

[surada]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are elements of history woven in. I believe what you are trying to say is that they are loose historical accounts. For example, George Washington didn't actually chop down a cherry tree, but he did exist and did many great things. It would be unusual if ancient historical accounts did not weave legends, allegory, fables and myth into their accounts. Such that it made them more memorable and easier to pass down orally. It in no way diminishes the overarching message and history of the account.

Exactly.. .. Its richer than we think on first reading of the stories..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Feed the estimate into the Dominion machine and it doubles

 

[ding]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are elements of history woven in. I believe what you are trying to say is that they are loose historical accounts. For example, George Washington didn't actually chop down a cherry tree, but he did exist and did many great things. It would be unusual if ancient historical accounts did not weave legends, allegory, fables and myth into their accounts. Such that it made them more memorable and easier to pass down orally. It in no way diminishes the overarching message and history of the account.

Exactly.. .. Its richer than we think on first reading of the stories..

Or even the thousandth.

 

[ding]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

Again... archaeologists do not deal in certainties. If you don't believe me, just ask one.

 

[Indeependent]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah
Proof?
Link?

and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites
What makes you so certain other than your hatred of religion?

 

[fncceo]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

" Historians have long known Rome stationed two legions in Judea after the First Jewish Revolt against Roman rule between 66 and 70 C.E. One legion was stationed in Jerusalem, but the headquarters of the other was only confirmed in 2015 in modern-day northern Israel. "

Archaeologists Find Gate to Headquarters of Famed “Ironclad” Sixth Legion in Northern Israel

Even an under-strength legion would be at least 4,000 soldiers and support troops.

 

[ding]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah
Proof?
Link?

and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites
What makes you so certain other than your hatred of religion?

How do you know he hates religion? I didn't get that from him/her.

 

[surada]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

Again... archaeologists do not deal in certainties. If you don't believe me, just ask one.

I'm partial to Devers and Israel Finkelstein. They pare it down to what is known... and they don't always agree. The tablets found at Ugarit on the coast of Syria and those found in Dilmun.. The Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea scrolls and Kramers work on Sumer have opened the OT up for serious scholars.. . (not me.. I'm an amateur)

 

[Indeependent]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah
Proof?
Link?

and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites
What makes you so certain other than your hatred of religion?

How do you know he hates religion? I didn't get that from him/her.

Definitely a touch of superiority going on.

 

[ding]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

Again... archaeologists do not deal in certainties. If you don't believe me, just ask one.

I'm partial to Devers and Israel Finkelstein. They pare it down to what is known... and they don't always agree. The tablets found at Ugarit on the coast of Syria and those found in Dilmun.. The Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea scrolls and Kramers work on Sumer have opened the OT up for serious scholars.. . (not me.. I'm an amateur)

That's my point though. It is never known with certainty. There is a distribution.

 

[Indeependent]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

Again... archaeologists do not deal in certainties. If you don't believe me, just ask one.

I'm partial to Devers and Israel Finkelstein. They pare it down to what is known... and they don't always agree. The tablets found at Ugarit on the coast of Syria and those found in Dilmun.. The Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea scrolls and Kramers work on Sumer have opened the OT up for serious scholars.. . (not me.. I'm an amateur)

I'm always fascinated by Atheist Jewish historians who have to mangle the meaning of Hebrew works to get their "point" across.
And yes, I have had discussions with pseudo-intellectuals who use to hate it when I asked them for a Chumash.
Today, I just whip out my phone and they blow up and walk away.

 

[ding]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah
Proof?
Link?

and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites
What makes you so certain other than your hatred of religion?

How do you know he hates religion? I didn't get that from him/her.

Definitely a touch of superiority going on.

No more so than any one else who has conviction of belief. You and I do the same. I would expect anyone with conviction of belief to come off as confident in their beliefs. He's not acting like many of the assholes I see on the forum. And I see lots of assholes on this forum everyday.

 

[ding]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

Again... archaeologists do not deal in certainties. If you don't believe me, just ask one.

I'm partial to Devers and Israel Finkelstein. They pare it down to what is known... and they don't always agree. The tablets found at Ugarit on the coast of Syria and those found in Dilmun.. The Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea scrolls and Kramers work on Sumer have opened the OT up for serious scholars.. . (not me.. I'm an amateur)

Do you mind if I ask you what your religious beliefs are? It won't change how I address you. Only your behavior can do that.

 

[Indeependent]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah
Proof?
Link?

and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites
What makes you so certain other than your hatred of religion?

How do you know he hates religion? I didn't get that from him/her.

Definitely a touch of superiority going on.

No more so than any one else who has conviction of belief. You and I do the same. I would expect anyone with conviction of belief to come off as confident in their beliefs. He's not acting like many of the assholes I see on the forum. And I see lots of assholes on this forum everyday.

Too many non-facts or generalities being expressed.
I have learned to keep my mouth shut until I consult someone whos knows the subject.
But they have to prove they know the subject.
You wouldn't believe the way people fake their way through Tanakh.

 

[surada]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

" Historians have long known Rome stationed two legions in Judea after the First Jewish Revolt against Roman rule between 66 and 70 C.E. One legion was stationed in Jerusalem, but the headquarters of the other was only confirmed in 2015 in modern-day northern Israel. "

Archaeologists Find Gate to Headquarters of Famed “Ironclad” Sixth Legion in Northern Israel

Even an under-strength legion would be at least 4,000 soldiers and support troops.

Well, there was no "legion" stationed in Jerusalem in 66 AD.

The legion which included 300 to 400 cavalry were stationed in Syria.

The Prefects and, later, Procurators who governed Judea were lower level officials of the equestrian class, subordinate to the higher ranking governors of the province of Syria, who were of Senatorial rank.

Only a senatorial official could command legions.

The Prefects/Procurators of Judea commanded several cohorts of auxiliary troops, not legionaries. These guys would have been Greek speaking Syrians or locally recruited Samaritans rather than Romans, though commanded by Roman officers.

 

[ding]

Right, as if we’d have any idea or capability to determine a city’s population from 2,000 years ago within a few hundred people.

Archaeologist can tell a lot..

They don’t know a lot more than they claim to know. They look at fragments of a past culture. No one knows the real history.

Have you been to Jerusalem.. The old city is quite small. They didn't have enough water and the land is very stony.. The north around Galilee and the Decapolis was more prosperous.

So what exactly are you trying to get at?

I follow Israeli archaeologist pretty closely for the past 40 years.. I have been to Jordan and Palestine several times so it interests me .Everything in the OT is exaggerated...

Everything in the OT is exaggerated
Prove it.

By the way, have you read the last 2 chapters of Deuteronomy?

Of course. Why? Do you think Moses wrote the Pentateuch? There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah had different accounts that were cobbled together about the time of King Omri... and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites. It doesn't diminish the value or the truth of the stories. But, they aren't history.

There are a number of doublets in the stories because Israel and Judah
Proof?
Link?

and the origins of those stories are older from Sumer and the north Coast Canaanites
What makes you so certain other than your hatred of religion?

How do you know he hates religion? I didn't get that from him/her.

Definitely a touch of superiority going on.

No more so than any one else who has conviction of belief. You and I do the same. I would expect anyone with conviction of belief to come off as confident in their beliefs. He's not acting like many of the assholes I see on the forum. And I see lots of assholes on this forum everyday.

Too many non-facts or generalities being expressed.
I have learned to keep my mouth shut until I consult someone whos knows the subject.
But they have to prove they know the subject.
You wouldn't believe the way people fake their way through Tanakh.

This is just a conversation. I'm not seeing any harm or ill intent here.

 

[surada]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

Again... archaeologists do not deal in certainties. If you don't believe me, just ask one.

I'm partial to Devers and Israel Finkelstein. They pare it down to what is known... and they don't always agree. The tablets found at Ugarit on the coast of Syria and those found in Dilmun.. The Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea scrolls and Kramers work on Sumer have opened the OT up for serious scholars.. . (not me.. I'm an amateur)

Do you mind if I ask you what your religious beliefs are? It won't change how I address you. Only your behavior can do that.

I'm an Episcopalian since I was 14, but I raised a non denominational (sort of Baptist) in Saudi Arabia.. and very serious about church and Sunday school.

 

[Indeependent]

(Geva calls it “minute.” Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University puts the number even lower: 400 to 500.)

continued

There were at least 6,000 Roman Soldiers stationed in Jerusalem in the 1st Century CE.

If the population of Israel's Capital was only a few hundred, I seriously doubt Rome would have stationed an entire legion there in 66CE.

Nope ..fewer than 600.. The Roman soldiers were stationed in Syria under Vespasian before he was recalled to Rome and Titus took over.

" Historians have long known Rome stationed two legions in Judea after the First Jewish Revolt against Roman rule between 66 and 70 C.E. One legion was stationed in Jerusalem, but the headquarters of the other was only confirmed in 2015 in modern-day northern Israel. "

Archaeologists Find Gate to Headquarters of Famed “Ironclad” Sixth Legion in Northern Israel

Even an under-strength legion would be at least 4,000 soldiers and support troops.

Well, there was no "legion" stationed in Jerusalem in 66 AD.

The legion which included 300 to 400 cavalry were stationed in Syria.

The Prefects and, later, Procurators who governed Judea were lower level officials of the equestrian class, subordinate to the higher ranking governors of the province of Syria, who were of Senatorial rank.

Only a senatorial official could command legions.

The Prefects/Procurators of Judea commanded several cohorts of auxiliary troops, not legionaries. These guys would have been Greek speaking Syrians or locally recruited Samaritans rather than Romans, though commanded by Roman officers.

What does this have to do with the Torah?