Christian population declined 90% under Palestinian Authority and Hamas - study

[rosends]

What criteria do you use to determine whether a source is a Jewish source?

If it is used by the Jewish community to establish norms and guidelines, or written by a source that demonstrates familiarity with Judaism and is writing in order to convey accepted communal norms.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

If it is used by the Jewish community to establish norms and guidelines, or written by a source that demonstrates familiarity with Judaism and is writing in order to convey accepted communal norms.

So tradition, your criteria is that it must be consistent with tradition.

If the source of the Gospels was the accurate testimony of Jews but you felt that testimony was at odds with tradition, you'd mistakenly conclude that the testimony was not from Jews, yes?

 

[marvin martian]

Violence and coercion has resulted in up to a 90% decline in the Christian population in areas under Hamas or Palestinian Authority control, according to a new study by the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs (JCFA).

In 1922, Christians constituted 11% of the population. Today, in 2024, they are just 1%.

The JCFA research, led by Lt. Col. (res.) Maurice Hirsch and Attorney Tirza Shorr, discovered mass emigration of Christians, particularly from historically significant cities like Bethlehem.




"Demographics don’t lie. We are witnessing a significant 80-90% decline in the Christian population in major cities," the researchers emphasized.

The Christian population in Gaza shrank from 5,000 before Hamas took over the area to only 1,000 in October 2023, the report found.

JCFA explained that religious and legal discrimination, desecration of holy sites, and social exclusion were behind the decline in the Christian population.

The city of Bethlehem is used as an illustration of what JCFA calls "Christian demographic erasure."


In 1950, Bethlehem and the surrounding villages were 86% Christian.

However, this has dwindled since 1994, when the PA took control of the city. The last census in 2017 showed Bethlehem was 10% Christian families, but many have left, or are leaving, due to systemic socio-economic hardships and instability, discrimination, and harassment, including of Christian clergy, by Muslim Palestinians and the Islam-dominated Palestinian Authority.

Bethlehem also serves as an example of Christians undergoing forced conversion to Islam, a phenomenon that Gaza’s Bishop Alexios, warned of in 2016. "Christians who converted to Islam did so under threats and violence," Alexios said at the time.

"The mass exodus of the Christians risks undermining the survival of Christianity in its birthplace," the report added.

The report also collected testimonies regarding violence and harassment against Christians, especially of girls, since the PA took over.

Muslim clans reportedly also use force to resolve disputes.

Christian population declined 90% under Palestinian Authority and Hamas - study

"Demographics don’t lie. We are witnessing a significant 80-90% decline in the Christian population in major cities," the researchers emphasize.

www.jpost.com

Historically both Christians and Jews were considered second class citizens in Muslim law, subject to persecution and humiliation by Muslims, since the 7th century and still are in many Muslim countries in the ME and North Africa so this is no surprise.

The DemoKKKrats are trying to figure out how to do this here.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Romans crucified him at the behest of jews. The jew high priest presided over Jesus' trial and actively looked for people to testify. It is well know that Pilate did not want to crucify Jesus.

So what you are saying is that the Jews did not kill Jesus, the Romans did, but it is important to you to blame the Jews anyway.

 

[rosends]

So tradition, your criteria is that it must be consistent with tradition.

It must be consistent with established rules. The word tradition is ripe for misunderstanding.

If the source of the Gospels was the accurate testimony of Jews but you felt that testimony was at odds with tradition, you'd mistakenly conclude that the testimony was not from Jews, yes?

Not at all. There are plenty of other options. Testimony can be from less educated Jews who heard the story and got details wrong (the telephone theory) or from Jews who were writing according to an agenda which is distinct from the mainstream Jewish laws and practices.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It must be consistent with established rules. The word tradition is ripe for misunderstanding.

Not at all. There are plenty of other options. Testimony can be from less educated Jews who heard the story and got details wrong (the telephone theory) or from Jews who were writing according to an agenda which is distinct from the mainstream Jewish laws and practices.

What do you think someone "got wrong" exactly?

 

[rosends]

What do you think someone "got wrong" exactly?

Start with the fact that the behavior demonstrated by Jesus wasn't "heresy" and there are no Jewish laws that he broke that would merit the death penalty. If so, then the penalty of crucifixion would not suffice. The timing and structure of the trial are completely at odds with Jewish law.

There's more, but that's just a beginning.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Start with the fact that the behavior demonstrated by Jesus wasn't "heresy" and there are no Jewish laws that he broke that would merit the death penalty. If so, then the penalty of crucifixion would not suffice. The timing and structure of the trial are completely at odds with Jewish law.

So those events could have taken place as described and the authorities simply acted incorrectly (in your view), yes? The account could be accurate still.

That the actions of the Jews seems at odds with today's expectations, does not prove that those individuals did not actually do what is written.

There's more, but that's just a beginning.

 

[rosends]

So those events could have taken place as described and the authorities simply acted incorrectly (in your view), yes? The account could be accurate still.

That the actions of the Jews seems at odds with today's expectations, that does not mean those individuals did not actually do what is written.

sure -- the "leadership" was not the actual leaders but Sadduccee puppets who knew less of the Torah. So, sure, the whole thing could have gone off EXACTLY as described, but all that would do would be to confirm the errors of an uninformed "leadership."

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

sure -- the "leadership" was not the actual leaders but Sadduccee puppets who knew less of the Torah. So, sure, the whole thing could have gone off EXACTLY as described, but all that would do would be to confirm the errors of an uninformed "leadership."

That's precisely what Jesus called out, that they were wrong, he said that numerous times, he pointed out their errors and lack of knowledge numerous times.

 

[rosends]

That's precisely what Jesus called out, that they were wrong, he said that numerous times, he pointed out their errors and lack of knowledge numerous times.

great -- then we agree. The events as told were no reflective of actual Jewish law and practice and the uninformed, fake leadership was wrong for doing what it did. The texts then endorse (as Jesus did) the teachings of the Pharisees, who established the norms that we follow today. Thanks!

 

[DGS49]

There is no Arab-Muslim country where any minority region is tolerated. They are all losing their Jews and Christians, because they are intolerant bastards.

And yet, millions of them come to advanced Western Democracies and WE LET THEM COME! We never demand that they accept the prevailing cultures and renounce their primitive, anti-human practices. If we complain, we are racists and bigots.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

great -- then we agree.

We do?

The events as told were not reflective of actual Jewish law and practice and the uninformed,

Not at all, what we actually have here is a difference of opinion between you and those Jewish leaders 2,000 years ago.

fake leadership was wrong for doing what it did.

But there's no record of any Jews disagreeing with the leadership or arguing against them as would surely be the case if they were in any obvious sense "fake". I assume you too would not submit to a Jewish authority if you felt it was not acting in accord with Jewish laws.

As you have pointed out the Jews themselves did not in the literal sense, take Jesus' life so broke no Jewish law. As for the crucifixion the Gospels only refer to suspending him on an upright post, the very same punishment is attested to in Deut 21:22.

Would a sizeable Jewish community today abide by rulings from fake leaders? or would they immediately see the fakery and refuse to disobey what they already understand to be the law?

The texts then endorse (as Jesus did) the teachings of the Pharisees, who established the norms that we follow today. Thanks!

Jesus repeatedly argued with the Pharisees though, so describing him as "endorsing" them is ridiculous.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

There is no Arab-Muslim country where any minority region is tolerated. They are all losing their Jews and Christians, because they are intolerant bastards.

Iran's constitution recognizes Judaism as an official religion, and the government protects Jewish people.

Yusef Abad Synagogue - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And yet, millions of them come to advanced Western Democracies and WE LET THEM COME! We never demand that they accept the prevailing cultures and renounce their primitive, anti-human practices. If we complain, we are racists and bigots.

This is the tired old panophobia that now characterizes trumpanzees, fear and the sowing of fear.

You lot are frightened people, frightened of your own shadows.

Frightened of Muslims, drag queens, books, science, vaccines, blacks, courts even frightened of truth, you should be ashamed of yourself man, acting in such a gutless manner, paying homage to a lying sexually abusive fraudster.

 

[rosends]

We do?

sure -- we both are of the position that if the events took place as described then they don't follow the Jewish sources which establish actual normative Jewish practice.

But there's no record of any Jews disagreeing with the leadership or arguing against them as would surely be the case if they were in any obvious sense "fake". I assume you too would not submit to a Jewish authority if you felt it was not acting in accord with Jewish laws.

Who would disagree? And who would record it? None of this is recorded in Jewish sources because it has no bearing on juews. And if those who wrote it presented it in a certain light (one which villifies Jews) then showing any group of Jews as objecting to the non-legal positions being taken would undercut the message that Jews are bad.

As you have pointed out the Jews themselves did not in the literal sense, take Jesus' life so broke no Jewish law. As for the crucifixion the Gospels only refer to suspending him on an upright post, the very same punishment is attested to in Deut 21:22.

That has to do with the treatment of an executed person's body after execution.

Would a sizeable Jewish community today abide by rulings from fake leaders? or would they immediately see the fakery and refuse to disobey what they already understand to be the law?

Nope, they don't and wouldn't. Maybe a group of local followers might follow, but other groups wouldn't (TODAY) -- because today there is no centralized single authority for Jewish law the way there was in biblical times.

Jesus repeatedly argued with the Pharisees though, so describing him as "endorsing" them is ridiculous.

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you...

matthew 23 1-3.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

sure -- we both are of the position that if the events took place as described then they don't follow the Jewish sources which establish actual normative Jewish practice.

Who would disagree?

The people living under the authority of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

And who would record it?

Anyone who wanted to.

None of this is recorded in Jewish sources because it has no bearing on Jews.

This is the old "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

And if those who wrote it presented it in a certain light (one which villifies Jews) then showing any group of Jews as objecting to the non-legal positions being taken would undercut the message that Jews are bad.

Nothing in the New Testament vilifies Jews though only individuals who happen to be Jewish.

That has to do with the treatment of an executed person's body after execution.

Right but there is then a precedent of the use of a vertical pole in the context of an execution.

Nope, they don't and wouldn't. Maybe a group of local followers might follow, but other groups wouldn't (TODAY) -- because today there is no centralized single authority for Jewish law the way there was in biblical times.

There were about half a million Jews in Judea under the Romans at the time of Jesus. To claim these were all under the sway of a "fake" Jewish authority is frankly a desperate claim

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:

2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you...

matthew 23 1-3.

Which goes on to say:

But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach

and goes on for quite some time, disparaging the conduct of the Pharisees.

 

[rosends]

The people living under the authority of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

the ones living under the pharisees ignored them and the ones following the sadduccees (i guess) wouldn't have disagreed, but also don't represent Judaism.

Anyone who wanted to.

and if no one wanted to?

This is the old "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

I'm not saying "no" just "not them." Do you see me objecting to content created by the accepted authorities?

Nothing in the New Testament vilifies Jews though only individuals who happen to be Jewish.

What's the difference between "Jews" and "individuals who happen to be Jewish"? If the representation is of "leaders" would this not reflect on the community they lead? If not, then who cares what the leaders did in terms of Judaism today. They led no one.

Right but there is then a precedent of the use of a vertical pole in the context of an execution.

is there a precedent to using a grave for an execution? No, for AFTER an execution. Prepositions matter.

There were about half a million Jews in Judea under the Romans at the time of Jesus. To claim these were all under the sway of a "fake" Jewish authority is frankly a desperate claim

Who says that the half a million Jews followed the teachings and practices of the Sadduccees?

and goes on for quite some time, disparaging the conduct of the Pharisees.

yup. Their conduct, not their teaching.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Iran's constitution recognizes Judaism as an official religion, and the government protects Jewish people.

Yusef Abad Synagogue - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 1063394


This is the tired old panophobia that now characterizes trumpanzees, fear and the sowing of fear.

You lot are frightened people, frightened of your own shadows.

Frightened of Muslims, drag queens, books, science, vaccines, blacks, courts even frightened of truth, you should be ashamed of yourself man, acting in such a gutless manner, paying homage to a lying sexually abusive fraudster.

It's physically impossible for you to believe this.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It's physically impossible for you to believe this.

I go with evidence, I believe claims that have a credible evidential basis. This is quite different to the trumpanzee who must rely on either Trump's pontifications or other trumpanzees, to be told what to believe.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I go with evidence, I believe claims that have a credible evidential basis. This is quite different to the trumpanzee who must rely on either Trump's pontifications or other trumpanzees, to be told what to believe.

Every word of that is a lie.