Zone1 How big is your interest in the Religions of this world?

[alang1216]

I haven't read that book but I hope he illustrated how humankind's understanding of morality has also developed and changed over the millennia. For instance there are passages in the Bible in which God orders His people to kill all the enemy including men, women, children, animals. No Jew or Christian today would see that as moral. Other passages order the enemy to be taken as slaves. That also would not be moral in our view of morality now.

Few Christians and many Jews no longer follow Old Testament dietary laws seeing them as unnecessary in today's world. Many if not most of the Old Testament requirements of the people are no longer followed in today's world.

And on it goes.

That makes the history and ancient concepts no less valuable and interesting to study and understand.

Agreed. He does an excellent job of not only showing how man's view of God/morality has changed but offers some very good reasons why it has changed. He does a nice job of putting the period when the books were written in context of what the political situation was at the time.

 

[ding]

A very timely question. I'm just finishing a book titled "The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright. Highly recommended.

He went through the history of the God of Abraham and it was extremely insightful. He talks about how perceptions of God changed as things changed 'on the ground', in other words, the world of the authors. He examined Hebrew, Christian, and Muslim theological history, much of which I didn't know.

I think his view of God is not too far from my own. He says God is natural moral force that evolved by natural selection as man evolved from his ape ancestors. God is the morality and understanding we needed to survived in our societies as they developed. He sees Paul as the proponent of 'Universal Love' that was very a rare philosophy in the ancient world. It is an idea he sees as a way forward so disparate religions can, if not merge, at least respect and live at peace with all the others. (I'm sure I'm not doing Wright justice as I skipped summarizing his points on game theory.)

So basically you are saying that God is a figment of your imagination?

 

[alang1216]

So basically you are saying that God is a figment of your imagination?

No, more like a force of nature that made its appearance once man developed the intelligence to live in complex social groups. Maybe akin to natural selection for cultures. Not the God of the Bible but, like gravity, real enough to see the effects. Wright explains it way better.

 

[ding]

No, more like a force of nature that made its appearance once man developed the intelligence to live in complex social groups. Maybe akin to natural selection for cultures. Not the God of the Bible but, like gravity, real enough to see the effects. Wright explains it way better.

Is this force eternal?

 

[alang1216]

Is this force eternal?

No. Gravity only exists when mass is present and 'God' only exists when societies of men, or their like, are present.

 

[ding]

No. Gravity only exists when mass is present and 'God' only exists when societies of men, or their like, are present.

Why is that?

 

[alang1216]

Why is that?

Seems obvious to me. Each is a force which requires something to act on.

 

[ding]

Seems obvious to me. Each is a force which requires something to act on.

It’s not obvious to me. Does this force exist independent of man? If not why?

 

[alang1216]

It’s not obvious to me. Does this force exist independent of man? If not why?

No. Does gravity exist independent of mass? Does evolution exist independent of life?

 

[ding]

No. Does gravity exist independent of mass? Does evolution exist independent of life?

So in your perception of God, God proceeds from man. Right?

How is this not a figment of man’s imagination?

 

[alang1216]

So in your perception of God, God proceeds from man. Right?

How is this not a figment of man’s imagination?

First answer my questions regarding gravity and evolution. You should be able to noodle it through after that.

 

[ding]

No. Does gravity exist independent of mass? Does evolution exist independent of life?

These are bad analogies. Gravity isn’t a force per se. Gravity is a consequence of energy/matter warping space time. Anything which warped space time would produce what we call gravity.

Evolution is anything which moves from a less complex state to a more complex state. Evolution isn’t limited to biology. The universe has been evolving since it popped into existence ~14 billion years ago.

 

[ding]

First answer my questions regarding gravity and evolution. You should be able to noodle it through after that.

See post #52

 

[ding]

You should be able to noodle it through after that.

Actually I’m still trying to understand how his belief doesn’t mean God is a figment of man’s imagination. Can you noodle your way through that question?

 

[ding]

No. Does gravity exist independent of mass? Does evolution exist independent of life?

Gravity and evolution are what we would call laws of nature and laws of nature exist independent of nature itself. The presence of matter/energy and man don’t produce the laws of nature. The laws of nature prescribe and describe what will happen to life, matter and energy.

We know the laws of nature existed before anything else because the universe was created according to the laws of nature which by necessity would have needed to be in place first.

 

[alang1216]

Actually I’m still trying to understand how his belief doesn’t mean God is a figment of man’s imagination. Can you noodle your way through that question?

Let's skip the physics and semantics and cut to the chase. My conception of god is as a natural, fundamental, moral force of all cultures and, as such, is not guided by intelligence. I see that as our basic disagreement.

 

[ding]

Let's skip the physics and semantics and cut to the chase. My conception of god is as a natural, fundamental, moral force of all cultures and, as such, is not guided by intelligence. I see that as our basic disagreement.

Your concept of God is that God is a figment of man’s imagination.

You don’t believe there is a moral force that exists outside the minds of men.

Can you walk me through how this moral force works without being guided by intelligence?

Our basic disagreement is your perception of God is not responsible for creating the universe and does not exist in actuality.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

how big is it?

i am interested in all aspects of them

and you?

The only religion I care about is mine the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints, the one I worry about is the violent one of Islam. So, can't take your pole.

 

[Mr Natural]

My interest is very small provided they observe the 11th Commandment:

11. Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

 

[Zebra]

3 of 10 are greatly interested