How about another Mandate? (A solutions thread)

[P F Tinmore]

We are also suggesting those who had homes and properties be permitted to return to them, but only those, not their descendants.

So you are taking inheritance off the table?

 

[Coyote]

That is one reason land swaps would be necessary to create a viable contiguous state.

Do land swaps mean that Israel gets to keep some of the most valuable territory in the world, Jerusalem, while the Palestinians get sand? If Israel wants Jerusalem they should give up the pre 1948 district of Nazareth.

A state that does not have food security can never be truly independent.

Any "state" that has no entry or exit except through Israel cannot be independent.

I agree and those concerns would have to be addressed in negotiations. Likewise...Israels security needs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The issue, at its most basic, is two peoples, who both have rights, fighting over the same piece of land.

Not really. We have two people, Palestinians and foreign settlers, fighting over Palestine.

You need to word your premise correctly.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

 

[Coyote]

The issue, at its most basic, is two peoples, who both have rights, fighting over the same piece of land.

Not really. We have two people, Palestinians and foreign settlers, fighting over Palestine.

You need to word your premise correctly.

I am wording it correctly.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That is one reason land swaps would be necessary to create a viable contiguous state.

Do land swaps mean that Israel gets to keep some of the most valuable territory in the world, Jerusalem, while the Palestinians get sand? If Israel wants Jerusalem they should give up the pre 1948 district of Nazareth.

A state that does not have food security can never be truly independent.

Any "state" that has no entry or exit except through Israel cannot be independent.

I agree and those concerns would have to be addressed in negotiations. Likewise...Israels security needs.

Negotiations always fail. We just need to enforce the law and UN resolutions. The basic framework for negotiations is for the Palestinians to negotiate away their rights.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The issue, at its most basic, is two peoples, who both have rights, fighting over the same piece of land.

Not really. We have two people, Palestinians and foreign settlers, fighting over Palestine.

You need to word your premise correctly.

I am wording it correctly.

Not really. That "same piece of land" is Palestine.

 

[Coyote]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Look...what are the requirements for a viable state?

A contiguous region. Control over borders and air space. The means to develop an economy, create trade. The ability to keep ones people safe.

Israel, like any state has a duty to keep its people safe and its nation secure. As does Palestine.

 

[Coyote]

The issue, at its most basic, is two peoples, who both have rights, fighting over the same piece of land.

Not really. We have two people, Palestinians and foreign settlers, fighting over Palestine.

You need to word your premise correctly.

I am wording it correctly.

Not really. That "same piece of land" is Palestine.

I said that.

 

[Coyote]

That is one reason land swaps would be necessary to create a viable contiguous state.

Do land swaps mean that Israel gets to keep some of the most valuable territory in the world, Jerusalem, while the Palestinians get sand? If Israel wants Jerusalem they should give up the pre 1948 district of Nazareth.

A state that does not have food security can never be truly independent.

Any "state" that has no entry or exit except through Israel cannot be independent.

I agree and those concerns would have to be addressed in negotiations. Likewise...Israels security needs.

Negotiations always fail. We just need to enforce the law and UN resolutions. The basic framework for negotiations is for the Palestinians to negotiate away their rights.

Which would lead to what then?

 

[Coyote]

We are also suggesting those who had homes and properties be permitted to return to them, but only those, not their descendants.

So you are taking inheritance off the table?

I think for those there can be compensation.

 

[Shusha]

We are also suggesting those who had homes and properties be permitted to return to them, but only those, not their descendants.

So you are taking inheritance off the table?

Not necessarily. What I am taking off the table is the deliberate destruction of Israel via a massive influx of a hostile population.

 

[Shusha]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Nope. Only the right to respond to aggression.

 

[rylah]

The issue, at its most basic, is two peoples, who both have rights, fighting over the same piece of land.

Not really. We have two people, Palestinians and foreign settlers, fighting over Palestine.

You need to word your premise correctly.

Didn't Palestinian Jews work and establish self determination in Israel?

Funny You don't see that the same premise You use to exclude the Jews, can work in the opposite direction as well.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Nope. Only the right to respond to aggression.

Israeli BS talking point. The Palestinians were at home peacefully minding their own business when foreigners from Europe went there with their stated goal to colonize Palestine, remove the people, and create an exclusive Jewish state.

That is, by its very nature, aggressive. This aggression continues to today.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Look...what are the requirements for a viable state?

A contiguous region. Control over borders and air space. The means to develop an economy, create trade. The ability to keep ones people safe.

Israel, like any state has a duty to keep its people safe and its nation secure. As does Palestine.

It would take some serious work to accomplish that. I don't see anything close to justice happening here.

 

[Hollie]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Nope. Only the right to respond to aggression.

Israeli BS talking point. The Palestinians were at home peacefully minding their own business when foreigners from Europe went there with their stated goal to colonize Palestine, remove the people, and create an exclusive Jewish state.

That is, by its very nature, aggressive. This aggression continues to today.

Of course, it was those "Peaceful Pal'istanians" who were the earlier invaders / colonizers. The same "Peaceful Pal'istanians" who earlier made dhimmis of the minority population.

You don't acknowledge that the jewish people were encouraged to immigrate to the area of Pal'istan. Who encouraged the Islamist invaders to conquer the area?

Don't befuddle yourself so. The Jewish people had the wherewithal to establish sovereignty and build a successful societal milieu.

The Arabs-Islamists cannot.

 

[Coyote]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Nope. Only the right to respond to aggression.

Israeli BS talking point. The Palestinians were at home peacefully minding their own business when foreigners from Europe went there with their stated goal to colonize Palestine, remove the people, and create an exclusive Jewish state.

That is, by its very nature, aggressive. This aggression continues to today.

Of course, it was those "Peaceful Pal'istanians" who were the earlier invaders / colonizers. The same "Peaceful Pal'istanians" who earlier made dhimmis of the minority population.

You don't acknowledge that the jewish people were encouraged to immigrate to the area of Pal'istan. Who encouraged the Islamist invaders to conquer the area?

Don't befuddle yourself so. The Jewish people had the wherewithal to establish sovereignty and build a successful societal milieu.

The Arabs-Islamists cannot.

The Palestinians haven't made dhimmis of anyone. Get your head in the right century.

 

[rylah]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Nope. Only the right to respond to aggression.

Israeli BS talking point. The Palestinians were at home peacefully minding their own business when foreigners from Europe went there with their stated goal to colonize Palestine, remove the people, and create an exclusive Jewish state.

That is, by its very nature, aggressive. This aggression continues to today.

It's a fairytale.

The imagined 'peaceful Palestine' is an Arab Muslim talking point.
The community was sectarian, divided and full of inner struggles.
A situation that has evidently worsened in the territory under Arab rule, all over the ME.

Tribalism is still a significant part of the Palestinian community and political system.

 

[Coyote]

Israels security needs.

Israel's basic excuse to kill and steal.

Nope. Only the right to respond to aggression.

Israeli BS talking point. The Palestinians were at home peacefully minding their own business when foreigners from Europe went there with their stated goal to colonize Palestine, remove the people, and create an exclusive Jewish state.

That is, by its very nature, aggressive. This aggression continues to today.

The Palestinians were not. They were busy fighting for self determination also. And yes, the issue of Jewish immigration was one of the big issues to the Palestinian Arabs who saw it as a barrier to to their own ambitions.

Did the Jews of Palestine have the same right of self determination as the non Jews?

Why no outrage at the Arab states for creating exclusive states free of Jews?

You can't have it both ways without appearing to have a double standard.

Since we are talking about events that started a century ago, and the original players are no longer alive, what would be a fair and just plan, to everyone who would be effected?

Mass expulsions are criminal. And neither side trusts their safety and security in the hands of the other. It's criminal that the Palestinians continue to exist stateless, without rights in refugee camps. Yet to flood Israel with them would destroy Israel and likely result in retaliatory massacres.